To blend or not to blend is the question (HPL and Renewable Lubricants)?

[VersysVsWhat]

Awhile back I contacted Renewable Lubricants and asked them if any of their products were suitable for a motorcycle with a wet clutch. They responded back that their heavy duty diesel 5w 40 should work. At the time, it was still on the colder side and I was fine with a 5w-40 because my bike's middle of the road (temperature and duty wise) called for viscosity is 10w-40.

But I didn't order any then, and it soon started to get warmer and warmer in my area. When I went back, I decided to get the 15w-40 version in anticipation of summer like temps (and longer trips). What I didn't notice then is that for some reason, the 15w-40 version is energy conversing while the 5w-40 is not. I had already bought it and am now stuck with a $57 dollar gallon bottle of otherwise awesome oil, but which I can't use (at least not straight) in my bike.

I looked for an immediate alternative, and found Motul 7100 15w-50, and initial reviews of it seemed great, so I bought some, but continued to research and deep dive it, and turns out while it is a good oil, it is not a great oil and somewhat misrepresented. For example, despite being labeled ester core, it doesn't actually have all that much ester in it, and I wanted higher ester content to help keep my engine clean. But at least I can run it, so it is not a waste (I'm currently using it and my bike is pretty new, so its pretty clean still).

Most recently, I decided to bite the bullet and invest in some High Performance Lubricant's motorcycle oil. I figured that the higher initial upfront cost was balanced out by the fact that I could probably extend the OCI by 2 to 3 times higher than most other, especially common OTS, oils. I very recently just purchased 6 quarts of the HPL wet clutch motorcycle oil. I'm a long time lurker and have come to consider HPL to be one of, if not the best, blenders of oils out there (I also consider Renewable Lubricants to be very, very high quality from what I've read here).

My bike takes a little over 2 quarts of oil. I was wondering if I could perhaps blend a half of quart or so to the rest being HPL? The main issue I could see is that the Renewable Lubriants oil has very high antimony, and I don't know if that would interfere with any of the additives in the HPL? I realize I might have to contact both HPL and Renewable Lubricants, but I was hoping that there might be someone here that might have some insights?

(Conversely, if there is anyone in the central VA area that would be interested in the R.L. oil, I'd be willing to meet half way and sell the bottle at a discount, 47 instead of 57).

 

[JavierH19]

 

[Glenda W.]

Lesson here is to deep dive before purchase. I’d use the HPL and sell the rest. Mixing correctly formulated oils gives unknown results.

Also the W rating(first number) has nothing to do with summer temps. The grade(second number) helps you there.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Awhile back I contacted Renewable Lubricants and asked them if any of their products were suitable for a motorcycle with a wet clutch. They responded back that their heavy duty diesel 5w 40 should work. At the time, it was still on the colder side and I was fine with a 5w-40 because my bike's middle of the road (temperature and duty wise) called for viscosity is 10w-40.

But I didn't order any then, and it soon started to get warmer and warmer in my area. When I went back, I decided to get the 15w-40 version in anticipation of summer like temps (and longer trips). What I didn't notice then is that for some reason, the 15w-40 version is energy conversing while the 5w-40 is not. I had already bought it and am now stuck with a $57 dollar gallon bottle of otherwise awesome oil, but which I can't use (at least not straight) in my bike.

I looked for an immediate alternative, and found Motul 7100 15w-50, and initial reviews of it seemed great, so I bought some, but continued to research and deep dive it, and turns out while it is a good oil, it is not a great oil and somewhat misrepresented. For example, despite being labeled ester core, it doesn't actually have all that much ester in it, and I wanted higher ester content to help keep my engine clean. But at least I can run it, so it is not a waste (I'm currently using it and my bike is pretty new, so its pretty clean still).

Most recently, I decided to bite the bullet and invest in some High Performance Lubricant's motorcycle oil. I figured that the higher initial upfront cost was balanced out by the fact that I could probably extend the OCI by 2 to 3 times higher than most other, especially common OTS, oils. I very recently just purchased 6 quarts of the HPL wet clutch motorcycle oil. I'm a long time lurker and have come to consider HPL to be one of, if not the best, blenders of oils out there (I also consider Renewable Lubricants to be very, very high quality from what I've read here).

My bike takes a little over 2 quarts of oil. I was wondering if I could perhaps blend a half of quart or so to the rest being HPL? The main issue I could see is that the Renewable Lubriants oil has very high antimony, and I don't know if that would interfere with any of the additives in the HPL? I realize I might have to contact both HPL and Renewable Lubricants, but I was hoping that there might be someone here that might have some insights?

(Conversely, if there is anyone in the central VA area that would be interested in the R.L. oil, I'd be willing to meet half way and sell the bottle at a discount, 47 instead of 57).

TLDR; that’s not “blending” that’s mixing. Just use the HPL.

 

[dnewton3]

HPL (and other boutique brands) are rightly going to tell you not to mix their stuff with other stuff.

Whereas your OTC lubes which are API certified are generally OK to mix brand to brand, that's not true of many boutique brands. This is because the additive packages are VERY finely tuned, and if you introduce some other chemistry into them, you may throw them "off balance" (out of whack; wonky; etc ...). I know for a fact after talking with DW at HPL, that they worked diligently for a long time to hone the right additive(s) for their anti-foam package and it would be unwise to upset that apple cart. If you've seen the LSJr video where the anti-foam properties were tested, you'll understand that HPL has a VERY excellent formula in that regard.

Unless you have a degree in chemistry and have experience as a tribologist, and know the exact formulations for the products you mess with, it's best to not play mad scientist in your garage with boutique lubes.


I can sum it up this way .... Caveat Emptor.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

...Also the W rating(first number) has nothing to do with summer temps. The grade(second number) helps you there.

Yes, am aware of that. My understanding that there is a general trend for oils with a greater viscosity range to generally have more polymer based viscosity index improvers, and that these tend to shear and/or break down faster with shearing forces, higher heat, etc. Meanwhile, more narrow range oils tend to use less of these and tend to have higher percentage of higher quality base oil stocks that stand up better over time.

Based on that general trend, I thought that the 15w-40 oil would handle summer heat and longer trips better/longer, while the 5w-40 would shear out of grade and drop viscosity faster in the summer heat, longer trips, etc.

I realize that involves some assumption, but is it flat out incorrect? It may not be correct in this specific instance. And I'm also aware that different VII's have differing levels of stability/durability, but generally speaking, high quality base stocks are much more resistant to viscosity loss than polymer based VII's.


Thank you to everyone who replied. Read y'all loud and clear, best not to mix. I was leaning to that as well. Guess I'll make a craigslist post.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

I just double checked Renewable Lubricant's literature, and even on the 5w-40 oil it does list "Lubricity Enhanced Energy Conserving Formula", same as the 15w-40.

I think I may have been turning a molehill into a large hill. I'm going to try out the Renewable Lubricants oil by itself. If the clutch starts to slip, I'll just dump it and throw the Motul or HPL in. If it doesn't slip, it should be a really good oil, second only to the HPL stuff.

Hey Zeus, I'm stocked on oil for quite awhile! (4 quarts of Mobil 1, 6 quarts of HPL, 4 quarts of Renewable Lubricants, and 2 quarts of Motul.)

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Thank you to everyone who replied. Read y'all loud and clear, best not to mix. I was leaning to that as well.

Chemically speaking the mixing oils is a crap shoot because
the risk of upsetting the balance of additives...

Blackstone Labs Scientists...
"Usually, at least several of these additives will be synergistic. That
is, they react mutually, in groups of two or more, to create an effect
that none of them could attain individually. Changing or adding to
this formula can upset the balance and negate the protective effect
the formula was meant to achieve, even if you are only adding more of
something that was already included in the initial package."

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Yeah, I have decided to not mix the oils at all.

And I also have decided to try the Renewable Lubricants oil (on its own). The 5w-40 was recommended to me by R.L. because I talked about a certain viscosity range that I was most interested in at the time. The 15w-40 is very similar to the 5w-40 from what I understand additive wise.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Awhile back I contacted Renewable Lubricants and asked them if any of their products were suitable for a motorcycle with a wet clutch. They responded back that their heavy duty diesel 5w 40 should work. At the time, it was still on the colder side and I was fine with a 5w-40 because my bike's middle of the road (temperature and duty wise) called for viscosity is 10w-40.

But I didn't order any then, and it soon started to get warmer and warmer in my area. When I went back, I decided to get the 15w-40 version in anticipation of summer like temps (and longer trips). What I didn't notice then is that for some reason, the 15w-40 version is energy conversing while the 5w-40 is not. I had already bought it and am now stuck with a $57 dollar gallon bottle of otherwise awesome oil, but which I can't use (at least not straight) in my bike.

I looked for an immediate alternative, and found Motul 7100 15w-50, and initial reviews of it seemed great, so I bought some, but continued to research and deep dive it, and turns out while it is a good oil, it is not a great oil and somewhat misrepresented. For example, despite being labeled ester core, it doesn't actually have all that much ester in it, and I wanted higher ester content to help keep my engine clean. But at least I can run it, so it is not a waste (I'm currently using it and my bike is pretty new, so its pretty clean still).

Most recently, I decided to bite the bullet and invest in some High Performance Lubricant's motorcycle oil. I figured that the higher initial upfront cost was balanced out by the fact that I could probably extend the OCI by 2 to 3 times higher than most other, especially common OTS, oils. I very recently just purchased 6 quarts of the HPL wet clutch motorcycle oil. I'm a long time lurker and have come to consider HPL to be one of, if not the best, blenders of oils out there (I also consider Renewable Lubricants to be very, very high quality from what I've read here).

My bike takes a little over 2 quarts of oil. I was wondering if I could perhaps blend a half of quart or so to the rest being HPL? The main issue I could see is that the Renewable Lubriants oil has very high antimony, and I don't know if that would interfere with any of the additives in the HPL? I realize I might have to contact both HPL and Renewable Lubricants, but I was hoping that there might be someone here that might have some insights?

(Conversely, if there is anyone in the central VA area that would be interested in the R.L. oil, I'd be willing to meet half way and sell the bottle at a discount, 47 instead of 57).

As much as I love @High Performance Lubricants and bi-monthly buy every product I can swing from them, buying even the very best oil is never able to be considered an investment. At best, it is a cost avoidance, which isn’t really a net positive on the books but it can reduce operating losses.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Kawasaki recommends 7500 mile OCI's for this bike, which imo seems too high for most oils and most conditions. I was previously planning on running 5k OCI's with more typical OTS (but fully synthetic) oils.

With the HPL (and probably also the Renewable Lubricants if it doesn't negatively affect the clutch), I would feel comfortable extending that OCI from 5k to 10, 12, or maybe even 15k (If I do the latter, I will get a UOA before I do it). So 2 to 3 times longer than what I would be running otherwise. HPL cost me about 16 dollars a quart with shipping included.

But in actual cost, it would be more equivalent to 5 dollars and some change, up to 8 dollars. But unlike most other oils, it would be actively cleaning the engine, which is an important long term investment in my book. Why else is everyone going so gaga about VRP, if not effective engine cleaning?

And if I ever buy it in bulk, like a 5 gallon pail, the price above would be ever further reduced per quart. In that case, it would definitely be cost effective.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

And if I ever buy it in bulk, like a 5 gallon pail, the price above would be ever further reduced per quart. In that case, it would definitely be cost effective.

Mobil 1 Auto is also cost effective...