Tire Pressure questions

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I start with the door placard recommendations, then after some wear-in from new tires, work pressures up in increments till I find where I want to run them. Might take weeks. Attention to over/under steer, wear line at the shoulder etc.
Current daily driver (1 of 3 vehicles), the door placard is 33F/33R. I ended up at 37F/35R... I pay no attention to the max pressure usually on the sidewall.
Other vehicle 1psi above placard all 4 tires.
3rd vehicle 2psi above all around.
Daily driver gets weekly checks and others about every 2 weeks for pressure, more often if we get a good temperature swing. I do my checks early morning before any sunlight gets to them.
 
I didn't say to use the max pressure on the tire. If I buy a set of tires that the manufacture says needs 44 psi and my car says 38psi, I am going with what the tire manufacture says. The car that you are putting the tires on doesn't know what tires you got.
 
Another thing I found when getting different tires that had higher max inflation pressures was the low OEM pressure settings caused the car to get blown around in the wind due to sloppy sidewalls.
 
Originally Posted By: 63Marauder
I didn't say to use the max pressure on the tire. If I buy a set of tires that the manufacture says needs 44 psi and my car says 38psi, I am going with what the tire manufacture says. The car that you are putting the tires on doesn't know what tires you got.

I have never heard of tire manufacturers making vehicle-specific pressure recommendations. Where do you get that info? The manufacturer's website? The only inflation info I have seen on a tire itself is max load at max pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: 63Marauder
I didn't say to use the max pressure on the tire. If I buy a set of tires that the manufacture says needs 44 psi and my car says 38psi, I am going with what the tire manufacture says. The car that you are putting the tires on doesn't know what tires you got.


You will never, NEVER buy a tire for your car in the proper OEM size that has the proper tire inflation listed on the sidewall. The Max safe pressure listed on that side wall...if correct for your every day driving, would mean your tire is unsafe when pressure rises from high speed and or load.

The side wall pressure is not what a tire "needs"....how do it know what car it is going on? It is what it can take, MAX!
Read the literature that comes with a new tire (you threw that out, huh?). Many tires print it right on the side wall now .."maximum inflation pressure" 44psi
 
Agreed, or find any reputable tire website or our own resident tire expert here and see what he says. Passenger car tires are never stamped with the correct inflation pressure on the sidewall.
 
How did I miss this discussion? Oh, well. It seems the party is winding down, but there's still some dip left......

What I am about to write is backed up with more detail here:

http://www.barrystiretech.com/loadtables.html

It is a common misconception that the inflation pressure listed on the vehicle tire placard applies only to the OEM tires. No. It applies to ANY tire of the same size. This is all about load carrying capacity.

Will those replacement tires perform differently than the OE tires? Yes, of course. Different tires can be designed to perform differently, and because the OE tires were tuned to the likes of the vehicle engineers, they therefore reflect what ride and handling characteristics THEY wanted. The difference is the difference between who did the ride evaluation and what was desired and not a difference in the load carrying characteristics.

So it's important to know what tires you are purchasing do, if ride and handling are a characteristics of importance to you.

Will changing the inflation pressure change the ride and handling characteristics? Yes, but changing the inflation pressure also changes the load carrying capacity and that could profound effect on other things.

What other things? Adding inflation pressure reduces the size of the footprint and since grip is related to the amount of rubber in contact with the ground, it reduces the grip. (and , yeah, the relationship is quite complex)

Adding inflation pressure increases the spring rate of the tire, and while that causes the tire to respond to steering input faster, it also makes the tire more prone to impact damage.

There's another question about the differences between the load carrying capacity of tires. They aren't the same.

This is an artifact of the difference in the way the Tire Standardizing Organizations have described the load carrying capacity vs inflation. It's not that the tires are behaving differently, it's that these organizations took different paths in their theoretical studies. If you look closely, you'll see there is little difference between them.

Back in the day, they used pencil and paper (and a sliderule) to figure these things out. There is only a certain amount of precision you can get with those tools.

Today, we'd use high speed computers and get a much more accurate answer more quickly. Unfortunately, once the load tables have been published, they can't be withdrawn. They are kind of "cast in stone".

Good news! A couple of years ago, all the tire standardizing organizations agreed to use the same formula, so there won't be any differences on newly introduced sizes. However, the old sizes still carry over. If a new sizing system is introduced, it will be the same worldwide.

Now about about what is stamped on the sidewall of passenger car tires?

There is a regulation that is worded rather peculiarly and the result comes out one of 2 ways:

1) Max Load XXXXX at YY pressure

This describes a relationship. Notice this doesn't state what the maximum inflation pressure is.

2) Max Load XXXXX, Max pressure YY.

These are 2 independent statements. Notice it doesn't state a relationship.

For standard load passenger car tires, the max load occurs at 35 psi (36 psi for those expressed in metric units). The maximum inflation pressure could be 35, 44, or 51 psi - all with the same max load. The other inflation pressures are there for speed ratings.

So any particular passenger car tire can be stamped a number of different ways and still be correct. In all cases, there is a load table that states what the relationship is and taking into account that the tables are slightly different due to the standards organizations, they are all the same.

So for passenger car tires, the relationship would be stated:

Max Load XXXX at 35 psi (or 36 psi for metric units)

- OR -

Max Load XXXX, Max pressure 35 (or 36, 44, 51) psi.

Occasionally you will see some tire manufacturer make a mistake and state it this way:

Max Load XXXX at 44 psi (or 51 psi) - and I think this isn't quite accurate. It isn't exactly wrong, but it implies something that isn't there.

And one last thought: Inflation pressures are all stated as "cold" - meaning at ambient conditions - except where it is clear they are talking about pressure buildup. The maximum pressure listed on the sidewall is a "cold" pressure and the tire is designed to withstand the higher pressures due to the build up cause by heat. You can safely exceed the maximum pressure when operating a tire, if you started out below the maximum value.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

And one last thought: Inflation pressures are all stated as "cold" - meaning at ambient conditions - except where it is clear they are talking about pressure buildup. The maximum pressure listed on the sidewall is a "cold" pressure and the tire is designed to withstand the higher pressures due to the build up cause by heat. You can safely exceed the maximum pressure when operating a tire, if you started out below the maximum value.


....aaaaaaannnnnnd....subract/add 1psi for every 10° change in ambient temp.
 
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: 63Marauder
I didn't say to use the max pressure on the tire. If I buy a set of tires that the manufacture says needs 44 psi and my car says 38psi, I am going with what the tire manufacture says. The car that you are putting the tires on doesn't know what tires you got.


You will never, NEVER buy a tire for your car in the proper OEM size that has the proper tire inflation listed on the sidewall. The Max safe pressure listed on that side wall...if correct for your every day driving, would mean your tire is unsafe when pressure rises from high speed and or load.

The side wall pressure is not what a tire "needs"....how do it know what car it is going on? It is what it can take, MAX!
Read the literature that comes with a new tire (you threw that out, huh?). Many tires print it right on the side wall now .."maximum inflation pressure" 44psi
that's what I said doofis
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
How did I miss this discussion? Oh, well. It seems the party is winding down, but there's still some dip left......

I thought you'd never get here!


Even after all of Capri's clarification (and I too was wondering when he'd chime in!), I'm still amazed at how much mis-information people think they know about tires and proper inflation. I have a headache now
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisW
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
How did I miss this discussion? Oh, well. It seems the party is winding down, but there's still some dip left......

I thought you'd never get here!


Even after all of Capri's clarification (and I too was wondering when he'd chime in!), I'm still amazed at how much mis-information people think they know about tires and proper inflation. I have a headache now
crazy.gif



Absolutely true. This guy 63Marauder, for instance. His advice could be positively dangerous.

Capri has summed it all up. This thread should end before someone gets hurt.
 
I don't see any danger from higher pressures. Especially if you need the added load increase.

IMHO it is more dangerous to run around on under inflated tires that makes the car wallow around and have poor turning response.
 
I agree with SHOZ. All my cars tires have 40 psi in them. Have for years. They wear great and have lasted a long time. And guess what... I haven't skidded off the road or blown a tire yet.(and don't tell me it will soon.) And here in SW Fla we get lots and lots of rain.
 
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First off, guys, it depends what you mean by "higher pressures." That could be a very wide range depending upon the tire. 40 psi isn't a stretch for most tires. But hey, if you think that's optimal, more power to you. You've heard from experts in the tire industry. You've heard from people who managed fleets. But, if you know better, great. Perhaps start up a tire shop and correct the erroneous thinking of the rest of us, including the tire manufacturers.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
First off, guys, it depends what you mean by "higher pressures." That could be a very wide range depending upon the tire. 40 psi isn't a stretch for most tires. But hey, if you think that's optimal, more power to you. You've heard from experts in the tire industry. You've heard from people who managed fleets. But, if you know better, great. Perhaps start up a tire shop and correct the erroneous thinking of the rest of us, including the tire manufacturers.
I have heard from somebody who manages 45 vans and trucks and that's where I got my information. Our company has done this for 20 years or so.
 
Garak has extensive fleet experience. I run a fleet of Vans and Pickups as well.

I also track my cars, and have always experimented with pressures to tune my handling since the 60's.

The advice being offered is extremely platform/tire specific. I may tend to agree that very large/heavy vehicles with smaller tires may get gains by going up a few psi, but most cars tend to rapidly LOSE traction as you start getting much past 10-15% over recommended pressures. A vehicle with extremely large tires may only need a couple of pounds to optimize, while a skinny tired heavy one can need much more.

Imagining that you can somehow advise everyone to dramatically raise their pressures and they will achieve outrageous gains in traction either laterally or longitudinally is both naive and dangerous. At best you may experience a very slight decrease in rolling resistance...
 
I don't stray far from the placard recommendations. Your mention of someone managing vans and trucks is telling. Vans and trucks in 3/4 ton size and up tend to call for a higher pressure setting anyhow.

I don't particularly like having excess centre wear with overinflated tires, nor does it do the ride any favours. When running taxis, driver and customer comfort is important. Heck, my old Audi had a loaded/high speed specification and a normal specification. The former was only a few pounds higher, but it was noticeably more jarring with more interior squeaks and rattles.

What are you gaining? You're not gaining significant fuel economy. You're not improving the life of your tires. You're not improving ride. You're not appreciably improving handling. What's the point?
 
When my Jetta is at 30psi it feels like a Buick. At 40 you can feel road irregularities better. Most would not care for it, but I didn't buy a Buick.

Have not played with pressures in our Camry, it seems to wear tires ok, just fast. But does not need any more isolation from the road! If it was my daily driver I would run more, but I suspect I corner harder than my wife (or so say the kids).

My Tundra, I think it rides better with more psi. Less bounce. Could be just me.

I mostly want even wear and decent mpg. And for the tire to track true (did have a set that needed less air or it wandered like crazy). And not pinch flat on road hazards (does that happen?).
 
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