Timing belt

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: labman
What if GM made replacing intake manifold gaskets a routine service?

What if Toyota made changing out sludged up engines normal maintenance or Honda made their Auto Transmission replacement normal service?
Fact is none of that stuff is normal maintenance. Not like a timing belt that is supposed to be done. If not it is just a ticking time bomb.

 

[mormit]

Timing belts are easily within your skill set. Just keep the timing marks lined up.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Originally Posted By: silverrat
Really? Most of you guys are going to rule out a car because it needs a $500 service every 100k miles?

Absolutely. It's more like $1200 and it comes around when the car is old and not worth that much. It's a bad design.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: labman
What if GM made replacing intake manifold gaskets a routine service?

What if Toyota made changing out sludged up engines normal maintenance or Honda made their Auto Transmission replacement normal service?
Fact is none of that stuff is normal maintenance. Not like a timing belt that is supposed to be done. If not it is just a ticking time bomb.


You replace an item that normally lasts the life of the engine with one that may only go 100K or less. You then declare it is an wear item and get a free pass on its lack of durability? So I see no reason not to declare sludge buckets or poorly designed transmissions as wer items.

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
Originally Posted By: silverrat
Really? Most of you guys are going to rule out a car because it needs a $500 service every 100k miles?

Absolutely. It's more like $1200 and it comes around when the car is old and not worth that much. It's a bad design.


What kind of vehicle that it costs $1200 to replace a T belt?

 

[SteveSRT8]

More than one, for sure.

Having reliable chain engines go upwards of 250k miles ROUTINELY in our service vehicle and over 400k in isolated ones, I cannot imagine why I would want a belt.

But we all get to choose.

And TC's only stretch a little initially, then stay pretty constant if the owner maintains his vehicle well.

Ticking Time Bomb. An apt description.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
I too do not understand peoples issues with TB's.

MIL and partner sold their car the other day because they din't want to pay for TB service. ($500?)

but yeah, carrying a $20k loan at 12% for 5 years is SO much better.


Probably an emotional response. By opening the hood she's "teaching" the car that it's now okay to require trips to the mechanic. So it will repay her by needing more work in the future.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
What kind of vehicle that it costs $1200 to replace a T belt?

At $120-$150 per hour, most.

A friend recently had the job done in her Subaru. On that car, it's an easier job than on our Civic, and she got a low-cost (for the area) independent shop to do it for $1100.

 

[xlt4me]

Changing a timing belt is just another weekend project... like painting. It's not something you look forward to but once you get going on it, it's not that bad of a job.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
Originally Posted By: silverrat
Really? Most of you guys are going to rule out a car because it needs a $500 service every 100k miles?

Absolutely. It's more like $1200 and it comes around when the car is old and not worth that much. It's a bad design.


What kind of vehicle that it costs $1200 to replace a T belt?

lots. YEARS ago, the avg price floated around (in LI anyway) was $750. my '96 MPV ran around $950 last year.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: xlt4me
Changing a timing belt is just another weekend project... like painting. It's not something you look forward to but once you get going on it, it's not that bad of a job.


I have over 52 weekend jobs as it is.

 

[marcre]

I don't mind a TB, just as long as it has a reasonable maintenance schedule. 100k is good for me. Especially when buying a new car.

I hate to admit it, but I'm not even sure if I have a chain or a belt. Is there a way to find out on the net? I have a service appointment on Tuesday, so I could ask then I guess.

I checked out the Gates website and it didn't look like I have one, but I'm not sure I read everything correctly. Anyone know if a Jetta with the 2.5 5cyl engine is chain or belt? The site didn't seem to have info on many VW's after 2004.

 

[jcwit]

Regarding timing belts costing $1200 to replace the last 6 of my 7 cars used timing belts. I never spent more than $350.00 for Licensed/Certified Mechanic to do the job, and in most cases that encluded a new water pump and accessory belts.

I believe I did a T-belt replacement on all but one. All these cars were kept to 180,000 to 300,000 miles.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Sounds like easy cars and a low hourly rate.

Here, $350 will cover shop fees and 2.5 hours of labor.

 

[Zedhed]

No one mentioned the pulleys that the timing belt rides on wear too. After about 150,000 miles the pulleys usually need replacing also. So, the low cost of the belt is no longer relevant. I own a 1991 MB 190E 2.3 and the timing chain usually has to be replaced at about 200k miles and it cost me right at $100 for the parts and a few hours labor. There is almost no way for the chain to slip or jump teeth and potentially risk the piston/valve interference issue.

+1 for timing chains....

 

[jcwit]

Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
Sounds like easy cars and a low hourly rate.

Here, $350 will cover shop fees and 2.5 hours of labor.


Have no idea what an easy car is, but I sure like living in the No. Indiana area where the cost of living is reasonable.

 

[Stu_Rock]

I can appreciate that. I almost moved to West Lafayette a few years ago, but decided to come out here instead. This area is not a place I want to settle down in.

I tell you, the labor costs out here have made me step up my game on DIY jobs. Now I'll take on almost anything. Special tools cost a mere fraction of a labor bill.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
again, I believe you are mistaken. please explain how a RWD application w/ have the timing chain at the rear, between the engine and transmission, and cite an example please.
This appears to be a German phenomenon. As it was said before, the Ford 4.0 V6 has one of the timing chains at the back of the block, but that's:
1. a converted pushrod design and;
2. the Köln V6 which is Hergestellt in Deutschland

Current models with this silly arrangement are the VW Toureg, Audi Q7 & Porsche Cayenne with the VR6 or V6 TDI engines. The current VW 2.5 five cylinder also has a timing chain that requires the transmission to come out for replacement as well, as does the VR6 (and its well-known chain issues) - but both are FWD applications.

If anybody knew what a steaming pile VAG-designed chains were, they'd stay far away from chains as well. Maybe the domestics are better at it, but I hear so many reports of 'chain slap' when cold (until the tensioners get full oil pressure) I'm leery of them even then.

Plus belts are dry - they don't shear your oil.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Maybe the domestics are better at it, but I hear so many reports of 'chain slap' when cold (until the tensioners get full oil pressure) I'm leery of them even then.



short timing chains are the norm on pushrod domestics, but they are short, only connecting 2 gears.

 

[Zedhed]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: scurvy
Maybe the domestics are better at it, but I hear so many reports of 'chain slap' when cold (until the tensioners get full oil pressure) I'm leery of them even then.



short timing chains are the norm on pushrod domestics, but they are short, only connecting 2 gears.


Sorry friend, but those days are past, only a few domestic engines are still push-rod engines that use the short timing chains. Most are now SOHC or DOHC and use long timing chains up to the cams. Ford V-8s and V-6s and I-4s do, Chrylser V-6s and I-4s do, GM V-6s, some V-8s and I-4/5/6s all use long timing chains.

The days of push-rod engines are nearly finished, OHC engines, with timing belts and chains are the norm in 2010. Sorry, no more new 1958 Chevy's sold anymore -- time to upgrade our knowledge....