Timing belt

[marcre]

So, there's been a few threads on TB service and it got me thinking. Do any of you let this factor in when you purchase a car, whether it be a new or used vehicle?

On most of the cars I've had, I always find out when the service is due before I purchase. Especially on used cars. I'd hate to buy a used car and then have to drop several hundred dollars right away to get this taken care of. On a new new car I don't think I'd purchase if it was less than 80k. Seems like most cars go beyond that anyway. My vehicle now is good to over 100k.

Conversely, I've sold/traded in vehicles right around the time they are due as well. I don't hide the fact that it is due, but I don't advertise it. In fact, I don't think most people do this service anyway.

I've only had the TB service done once before. It was many years ago and it was a lot of money. Not fun, so I try to avoid it or at least look for vehicles that don't need it done too often.

Anyone else look at the timing belt schedule before purchase? Any other services that you look at before purchase?

 

[Ridds]

I tend to lean more towards cars that have timing chains. I do however currently have two Honda Civics, a '97 & '05. I'm in the trade and can do the TB myself so it really isn't a big deal for me. Not all chain driven engines are great though. Just had to do a water pump on a 2002 Chrysler Sebring 2.7L V6. 6.3 labour hours in the book.

I really do a lot of homework when it comes to buying a car and what you do is a very good idea in my opnion.

 

[marcre]

Good point about being able to do the work yourself. If someone has the ability to change it themselves, it is less a factor. For me, it's beyond what I can do.

 

[RISUPERCREWMAN]

I just had my timing belt done on my 1993 V6 Camry LE at 109K miles,using Toyota parts! I should be good now til 209,000 miles!!!

 

[marcre]

If you don't mind me asking. How much did it cost to get done?

 

[ekpolk]

I have never bought a belt car that late in the game. In fact, knowing what I now know, I'd insist in factoring it in to the purchase price and decision itself.

 

[Spector]

I definitely ask and it does make a difference in my decision. Most belt replacements (all belts) are 300-500 I have one that is over 600 and all of these are primarily labor, the belts are not that expensive. Chains are just more comforting, less expensive in the long run as well

 

[labman]

To me, it would be a big factor. I think many people don't worry about it, either not knowing or accepting it as normal. Others may not realize you can avoid the problem by buying a different brand. I guess I don't read a lot of reports, but seldom remember seeing the point discussed. Discussions of maintenence center on unscheduled repairs.

 

[rjundi]

I have been looking at it. My wife is interested in Toyota Sienna's used in the 2004-2010 generation. I found out Toyota used (rarity) a timing belt in 2004,2005 but changed over to chain I believe in 2006. So that knocks out the first years unless purchase is low enough.

I do factor in major maintenance at nearest interval when purchasing used car.

 

[bigmike]

I'd factor it in the purchase price and I'd make sure the dealer knew it. I've seen people paying upwards of 600-900, but usually that's with a water pump and other services combined.

 

[scurvy]

I always factor major service into the cost of a vehicle, as well as minor service that never comes up in the owner's manuals. Especially things like refreshing the suspension, transmission fluid changes (MTF is considered 'lifetime' by the OEM, not so by me), power steering fluid changes, brake fluid flushes, and so forth. If it has a fluid, it will get changed at least once every 50k miles.

On our TDIs, the TB is a 100k mile interval and is either $800 for a guru to do it or ~$350 for the parts kit. The first one I let my mechanic in Madison WI do; since then I've assisted with several and will DIY for the next ones (I have since acquired the Metalnerd tools, VCDS & Bentley manuals).

I honestly don't see why most folks here are so anti-timing belt. Belts have many advantages over chains: lighter, quieter, more dimensionally stable, cheaper, the mating parts almost never wear - and the biggest one, belts are DESIGNED to be replaced. Chains are rarely (if ever) designed to be replaced without major surgery. Plus chain replacement requires changing all the sprockets as they wear also, not so with a belt.

I'll always take a TB engine over a chain engine. In an ideal world we'd have mostly maintenance-free timing gears, but a TB system is a close second in my book.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: scurvy


I honestly don't see why most folks here are so anti-timing belt. Belts have many advantages over chains: lighter, quieter, more dimensionally stable, cheaper, the mating parts almost never wear - and the biggest one, belts are DESIGNED to be replaced. Chains are rarely (if ever) designed to be replaced without major surgery. Plus chain replacement requires changing all the sprockets as they wear also, not so with a belt.

I'll always take a TB engine over a chain engine. In an ideal world we'd have mostly maintenance-free timing gears, but a TB system is a close second in my book.

funny how all the belt holdouts are now going w/ chains (honda, mazda, etc); if belts were so great, why don't they stick w/ them?
I've only gotten burned by belted cars (mazda MPV, VW golf) and my chain cars have been reliable (saturn S series, saturn VUE).
way too much labor involved in changing a belt, esp on a multicam motor. doing a chain, IF it ever fails, is just as much labor, both still a pain.
on topic, when I bought a used '96 MPV, the seller had all the receipts for the last belt change so I felt confident it would be good for another 50K; nope, they had used inferior parts, the tensioner gave up, belt wrapped around one cam. $900 repair.
I don't buy belt cars anymore.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Spector
I definitely ask and it does make a difference in my decision. Most belt replacements (all belts) are 300-500 I have one that is over 600 and all of these are primarily labor, the belts are not that expensive. Chains are just more comforting, less expensive in the long run as well



Less expensive if you don't have any problem with them. Cost to replace secondary chains with tensioner guides that are pretty common on v6 Nissans, cost about $1400 or so...

 

[IndyIan]

Same with Suzuki V6's and not unusual on the 4 banger in my Tracker. Its part of the reason I run HDEO in it, to keep the tensioner from sticking.

 

[The_Jeff]

A timing chain has a much larger surface to seal against oil leaks, and the meshing of the chain and gears shears oil rather fiercely.

One can probably get to 6k on a gentle timing belted motor on supertech and have it stay in grade. Save those ten dollar bills from less frequent OCIs and you'll have a hundred bucks by the first belt interval. This might cover it if you do it yourself.

I think the crank pulley is intimidating for many. Yes they could make them easier. I've gotten mine off by propping a breaker bar on the floor and hitting the starter, spins the huge bolt right out.

$350 for a TDI, just for parts? Daaaaaaang.

 

[Schmoe]

The Honda I sold below....notice it was sold at 208K? Guess what happens around 210K? The dreaded Honda timing belt. Just couldn't dump another grand into that car with that transmission starting to act up again. My inner voice said....SELL....so I did. Interesting fact on timing chains shearing oil, never thought of that on my 2010 CRV. Was planning on running Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 to about 12K miles for the OCI, as I've done with the Accords but they had no timing chain. Hmmmmm, may have to take a couple of samples here and there to see how this engine treats the oil. Heck, I already got 8K on that car, well, the wife does. You'd be surprised just how many times you have to see different doctors while going through breast cancer. Glad I got her a new car now with all this extra driving she's doing.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
funny how all the belt holdouts are now going w/ chains (honda, mazda, etc); if belts were so great, why don't they stick w/ them?
...
way too much labor involved in changing a belt, esp on a multicam motor. doing a chain, IF it ever fails, is just as much labor, both still a pain.
on topic, when I bought a used '96 MPV, the seller had all the receipts for the last belt change so I felt confident it would be good for another 50K; nope, they had used inferior parts, the tensioner gave up, belt wrapped around one cam. $900 repair.
I don't buy belt cars anymore.

I would assume many manufacturers are going with chains because they are likely cheaper and are a 'lifetime' solution - much like ATs with no drain plugs, sealed bearings or iridium sparkplugs. The belt on my DOHC Volvo 850 was very easy to change and took all of 2 hours the first time. TDIs take longer, but they're much much faster to do than the equivalent chained engine (VR6 or 2.5).

Nearly any chain repair costs more than a belt/tensioner/guides replacement, not to mention they typically involve much more labor to get to the chain. Generally, belts are at the sides of the engine bays, chains tend to be at the back of the engine facing the firewall in RWD applications!

Sorry to hear about your MPV, but that could have happened with any repair using inferior parts - that's not a belt v chain issue it's a cheapskate previous owner issue.

Some folks like chains better - yourself included - and others like belts better. So long as you're happy with what you drive, please continue!

Originally Posted By: eljefino
$350 for a TDI, just for parts?
Almost, I was a bit high - $250 to $300, depending on the model. All OEM-supplier parts - timing belt, serp belt, tensioner, rollers, G12 coolant, waterpump & TTY bolts for the motor mount. $300 and a few hours labor for 100,000 miles of service out of a $20k vehicle is such a minuscule amount I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it. Especially considering the vehicle will probably use $500 of tires, $200 of brakes, $50 of brake fluid, $20 of power steering fluid, $30 of MTF and thousands of dollars of diesel fuel over those same miles.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
chains tend to be at the back of the engine facing the firewall in RWD applications!


Which ones? Chain is at the front in both the Ford 302 and the 4.6L. That covers a lot of RWD applications right there.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: scurvy
chains tend to be at the back of the engine facing the firewall in RWD applications!


Which ones? Chain is at the front in both the Ford 302 and the 4.6L. That covers a lot of RWD applications right there.

yeah, I was wondering what he's talking about also. RWD=engine facing front=chain in front.

 

[Smokescreen]

The Corolla's timing chain was of the determining factors over buying the Civic for me. I've had a few cars with belts and it is a pain in the pocket book when that maintenance comes around.