Times change, many refuse to change with them

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LS2JSTS

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First the good news. 1,550 jobs saved bringing Aveo assembly stateside and building the new Buick Verano. With 60% of the jobs getting the old UAW wage and the other 40% getting the new UAW wage....

http://www.freep.com/article/20101007/BU...-at-Orion-plant


But then the bad news. I can understand the angst at having two different pay scales. But at some point these guys have got to realize there are thousands that would line up and gladly do that job for $14/hr. The UAW is cutting their own throats, yet again...


http://www.freep.com/article/20101008/BU...-over-wage-cuts
 
It still boggles my mind that unskilled workers think they have a right to a $28/hour job. Are you SERIOUS? Get real. I bet they had 100 applicants for every one of those $14/hour jobs, many of which had college degrees and who used to be white collar workers.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
First the good news. 1,550 jobs saved bringing Aveo assembly stateside and building the new Buick Verano. With 60% of the jobs getting the old UAW wage and the other 40% getting the new UAW wage....

http://www.freep.com/article/20101007/BU...-at-Orion-plant


But then the bad news. I can understand the angst at having two different pay scales. But at some point these guys have got to realize there are thousands that would line up and gladly do that job for $14/hr. The UAW is cutting their own throats, yet again...


http://www.freep.com/article/20101008/BU...-over-wage-cuts

So you think a take home pay of around $385 in the year 2010 is progress? Maybe you can work two of those jobs and pay your rent. Then again food is overrated, and the walk to work will keep you healthy. At those wages you won't be able to afford a old car, never mind a new one. How about trying to live on those wages before opening your mouth about lining up for them.,
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
It still boggles my mind that unskilled workers think they have a right to a $28/hour job. Are you SERIOUS? Get real. I bet they had 100 applicants for every one of those $14/hour jobs, many of which had college degrees and who used to be white collar workers.

I am at the point where everyone should get a 50% pay cut . The more you make the bigger the pay cut . Why should a college degree give someone the right to expect more pay!!!
 
It would seem that if they don't get the lower wages, the plant closes down, and everyone looses. More proof that Unions cost Americans jobs.
 
Walk into any autozone and count the people working under 25 years of age. There aren't many. You see pizza guys who need "justformen" too. Things are definately different. Stay in school kids. Only lucky few with connections get union jobs
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
...I am at the point where everyone should get a 50% pay cut . The more you make the bigger the pay cut . Why should a college degree give someone the right to expect more pay!!!


Please, less drugs, more thought. . . The simple answer to your question is that in most situations, the degree makes the person more qualified and capable. Extending your implied reasoning, I guess we should just shut down all post-high-school educational institutions.

Now, let me ask you this: when you, or perhaps your child, next needs live saving surgery, who exactly do you want putting a scalpel to your skin -- a fully and properly COLLEGE EDUCATED surgeon, or a high school grad who happens to be handy with knives?????
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
First the good news. 1,550 jobs saved bringing Aveo assembly stateside and building the new Buick Verano. With 60% of the jobs getting the old UAW wage and the other 40% getting the new UAW wage....

http://www.freep.com/article/20101007/BU...-at-Orion-plant


But then the bad news. I can understand the angst at having two different pay scales. But at some point these guys have got to realize there are thousands that would line up and gladly do that job for $14/hr. The UAW is cutting their own throats, yet again...


http://www.freep.com/article/20101008/BU...-over-wage-cuts

So you think a take home pay of around $385 in the year 2010 is progress? Maybe you can work two of those jobs and pay your rent. Then again food is overrated, and the walk to work will keep you healthy. At those wages you won't be able to afford a old car, never mind a new one. How about trying to live on those wages before opening your mouth about lining up for them.,


Gotta say, I don't disagree with LS2JSTS...
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
It would seem that if they don't get the lower wages, the plant closes down, and everyone looses. More proof that Unions cost Americans jobs.


And yet, the inescapable truth is that the only alternative is "American jobs" that no actual American would be interested in working for what's being paid. . .
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
First the good news. 1,550 jobs saved bringing Aveo assembly stateside and building the new Buick Verano. With 60% of the jobs getting the old UAW wage and the other 40% getting the new UAW wage....

http://www.freep.com/article/20101007/BU...-at-Orion-plant


But then the bad news. I can understand the angst at having two different pay scales. But at some point these guys have got to realize there are thousands that would line up and gladly do that job for $14/hr. The UAW is cutting their own throats, yet again...


http://www.freep.com/article/20101008/BU...-over-wage-cuts

So you think a take home pay of around $385 in the year 2010 is progress? Maybe you can work two of those jobs and pay your rent. Then again food is overrated, and the walk to work will keep you healthy. At those wages you won't be able to afford a old car, never mind a new one. How about trying to live on those wages before opening your mouth about lining up for them.,


Never said it was progress, if asked to label it. I would call it reality.

I have stated many times that Henry Ford would be sick to learn his new hires can't afford to buy the cars they are building. But faced with reality and the new world economy, the realist in me has to acknowledge that $14/hr is better than $00/hr. Without wage concessions every one of those jobs would remain/be moved offshore, what good does that do anyone?

What is your solution?
 
Agreed. It may not be progress, but it is reality. 28,000 a year is a liveable wage, and I'm sure they would have a long line of people willing to take those jobs.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Tempest
It would seem that if they don't get the lower wages, the plant closes down, and everyone looses. More proof that Unions cost Americans jobs.


And yet, the inescapable truth is that the only alternative is "American jobs" that no actual American would be interested in working for what's being paid. . .


The last time Chryslers Global Motor in Dundee accepted applications, they got thousands of apps for just a few openings. The assumption that no actual American would be interested in a $14/hr job is false. And these are people with two year and technical certs, the last I heard ALL the hires at Global were required to have at least a technical cert or a two year degree.

Whether this is a good thing, is debateable, and I tend to agree with you. These jobs are low paying, but the fact is many are far worse off and would gladly welcome a job at these pay levels. Says more about the slipping middle class than anything else...Sad IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
...

Gotta say, I don't disagree with LS2JSTS...


Well then, if you're going to be consistent and intellectually honest, you should go out and take the first $20,000 per year job you can find. Oh yeah, you'll be livin' the good life of a free American then. . .
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Then again Firemen get great pay and obsecene retirement and there is always a line around the block to submit applications. So we should pay civil workers less.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
... The assumption that no actual American would be interested in a $14/hr job is false. ... And so is the assumption that this is where wages and the economy SHOULD stabilize.

LS2JSTS said:
Whether this is a good thing, is debateable, and I tend to agree with you. These jobs are low paying, but the fact is many are far worse off and would gladly welcome a job at these pay levels. Says more about the slipping middle class than anything else...Sad IMO.
Ahh, at last -- something we agree on -- sort of... I'd say it's a BAD thing, IF it's assumed that this is where things will stay, EXCEPT where, for the immediate near term, the folks taking the jobs are coming from worse situations (most notably, unemployment).

Electronic communication, reliable jet aircraft, and relatively speedy bulk ocean transport have created a situation in which it's only a matter of time until we're ALL living in a true world economy. Like it or not, we Americans are going to have to adjust to the reality that there are hungrier 3rd world people willing to do what we have done in the past for a lot less money. The REAL challenge for the future won't be in asking where this job or that comes to rest, but rather, in finding a way to maintain OUR way of life, the one we WANT to live, as the inevitable results of economic forces come home to roost.

But hey, look at the bright side -- in the past, these sorts of issues would probably have been decided by war, not by struggling with economics. Things could be even worse...
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
ekpolk , Hit a soft spot? Lower other peoples pay except mine?


You said that, not me. . . If there's any soft spot involved, it's between your ears.
 
Agreed.

Like I said EK, this is just reality. The world market requires our labor compete against foreign labor. Not only in terms of quality, but in wages as well.

I don't like it, but it is what it is. And those who cry the loudest about it, often have the least bit of insite into how it could/can be changed.

FTR, I think the die is set, there is no turning back and our middle class will slowly erode leaving a huge expanse between welath and poverty, with far too many caught below.

The only war that would solve this problem long term would amount to genocide.
 
So since there will be always someone willing and able some where in the world to do a job for less, what is the future of 1st world countries with no trade restrictions?
We are now directly competing on wages, what about environmental regulations? China or some where else will choose to destroy their environment to make a buck... Someone will be willing to work 60 hour weeks with no holidays, should we compete with that?

Why would we want to? We've got the cash, educated work force, and natural resources to produce an excellent level of living while working 40 hour weeks, while not polluting the heck out of our countries.
Some sort of standard of living tariff needs to be set, so to import stuff, it has to be made in an equally regulated situation. The whole country doesn't have to be at our level but the environmental and working conditions at an exporting plant must be. This would create a race to the top, instead of a race to the lowest standard of living we have now...
 
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