Three 0W-20 VOAs - Mobil 1 ESP X2, Motul Specific 508, and Ravenol VSE

[Blagoje]

***I am not an expert***

Should I be at all concerned about using M1 ESP 0W20 due to its higher zinc and sulphated ash content as compared to a standard fare API SP 0w20, like say PUP 0w20? For example, looking at the info on M1 ESP 0W20 on Mobil's website the zinc and sulphated ash content is 120ppm higher each as compared to their other 0w20 offerings.

 

[Sienna dude]

I will take that 8.7 cSt of Audi

 

[Glenda W.]

I’ve been down the same rabbit hole. It can be consuming. LSJR doesn’t sell oil but he does sell UOA’s.

In the end I settled on ESP 0w30 in a range of asian, domestic, and euro vehicles. Some of the most stringent approvals with a gtl/pao/ester base for $27 at Wally.

 

[buster]

I’ve been down the same rabbit hole. It can be consuming. LSJR doesn’t sell oil but he does sell UOA’s.

In the end I settled on ESP 0w30 in a range of asian, domestic, and euro vehicles. Some of the most stringent approvals with a gtl/pao/ester base for $27 at Wally.

Can't go wrong with that oil IMO.

 

[Sienna dude]

If I had a bunch of money to burn on a top notch 0w20, Redline 0w20 and HPL Super Car would be my choice.

M

Thread 'Red Line 0W-20 VOA'

May 3, 2025

Greetings motor oil experts! Thank you for letting me on this board.

I mixed 5 bottles of Red Line and took a sample from that.
I have decided to service my car myself. With the money saved I can buy premium oil. $200 a year on motor oil is not such a bad deal.

• Motor oil rookie
• Replies: 42
• Forum: Virgin Oil Analysis - PCMO/HDEO

• 

 

[rstcso]

I’ve been down the same rabbit hole. It can be consuming. LSJR doesn’t sell oil but he does sell UOA’s.

In the end I settled on ESP 0w30 in a range of asian, domestic, and euro vehicles. Some of the most stringent approvals with a gtl/pao/ester base for $27 at Wally.

Yes, LSJR sells testing, and at a premium. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I've watched his presentations to Porsche and Mercedes clubs where he stresses the importance of UOAs to see how your car's engine reacts to a specific oil. He even says it doesn't matter which lab you use, but start with one, send a sample for VOA, and use the same lab for follow-up UOA testing. That removes the variability between labs.

I agree the Mobil1 ESP is a great oil, but in the end, my heart lies with Amsoil (now their Euro 0W30, not 0W20). Back at the relative beginning of synthetic PCMO in the late 70s, Mobil 1 was the recommended oil for Corvettes. I remember all too well the many vettes that smoked by 30k-40k miles. Synthetic oil chemistry has come a long way since then.

 

[rstcso]

Due to the higher cost of Speediagnostix over Oil Analyzers, three samples I wanted to see their VOA were sent to Oil Analyzers. After receiving the results about a week later, and thinking I might use one of two in my car going forward, I sent samples from the same jugs to Speediagnostix for VOA. I did this because it's the company I plan on using for my UOA, therefore I want my baseline to be from them and not a different lab.

Here are examples showing some "discrepancies" between the two labs. I'm not saying one is more correct than the other, but it emphasizes LSJR's point to pick a lab you want to use and stick with them. Your results will be more consistent and they'll have your previous samples' results for easy comparison.

 

[Glenda W.]

Yes, LSJR sells testing, and at a premium. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I've watched his presentations to Porsche and Mercedes clubs where he stresses the importance of UOAs to see how your car's engine reacts to a specific oil. He even says it doesn't matter which lab you use, but start with one, send a sample for VOA, and use the same lab for follow-up UOA testing. That removes the variability between labs.

I agree the Mobil1 ESP is a great oil, but in the end, my heart lies with Amsoil (now their Euro 0W30, not 0W20). Back at the relative beginning of synthetic PCMO in the late 70s, Mobil 1 was the recommended oil for Corvettes. I remember all too well the many vettes that smoked by 30k-40k miles. Synthetic oil chemistry has come a long way since then.

Nothing wrong with Amsoil!

 

[kschachn]

Due to the higher cost of Speediagnostix over Oil Analyzers, three samples I wanted to see their VOA were sent to Oil Analyzers. After receiving the results about a week later, and thinking I might use one of two in my car going forward, I sent samples from the same jugs to Speediagnostix for VOA. I did this because it's the company I plan on using for my UOA, therefore I want my baseline to be from them and not a different lab.

Here are examples showing some "discrepancies" between the two labs. I'm not saying one is more correct than the other, but it emphasizes LSJR's point to pick a lab you want to use and stick with them. Your results will be more consistent and they'll have your previous samples' results for easy comparison.

That is unfortunate, but it does seem like it is the case. Each ASTM test has both a repeatability and a reproducibility which comes into play. Tests like these should be reproducible both at the same lab and between them.

The problem was sticking with one lab is that you may be getting consistently incorrect results. If a lab is not following the proper calibration on the ICP for example then there is no guarantee that their inaccuracy on the last sample would be the same as their inaccuracy on this sample.

There is no substitute for following procedures. When someone is really after statistically accurate results you do not stick with one lab. But the labs must be following proper procedure. Improper test procedures is just plain improper test procedures. It’s not something you can depend upon.

 

[kschachn]

I agree the Mobil1 ESP is a great oil, but in the end, my heart lies with Amsoil (now their Euro 0W30, not 0W20). Back at the relative beginning of synthetic PCMO in the late 70s, Mobil 1 was the recommended oil for Corvettes. I remember all too well the many vettes that smoked by 30k-40k miles. Synthetic oil chemistry has come a long way since then.

Are you saying that the Mobil 1 motor oil that was being used destroyed the engine? What caused this?

 

[dnewton3]

Yes, LSJR sells testing, and at a premium. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I've watched his presentations to Porsche and Mercedes clubs where he stresses the importance of UOAs to see how your car's engine reacts to a specific oil. He even says it doesn't matter which lab you use, but start with one, send a sample for VOA, and use the same lab for follow-up UOA testing. That removes the variability between labs.

The disparity between labs is just one issue. He, like many others, completely ignores the topic of statistical "normality" and uses singular UOA data points to make conclusions which are VERY LIKELY TO BE ERRONEOUS because he demonstrates no understanding of standard deviation and its effects. LSJr's accreditation in tribology does not carry over to statistical analysis; this is abundantly clear.

I am a huge fan of using UOAs, but they are a tool most folks don't understand how to use.

 

[rstcso]

Are you saying that the Mobil 1 motor oil that was being used destroyed the engine? What caused this?

My understanding later in life, is the formulations of original synthetic oils were mostly esters, which led to problems, especially related to seal shrinkage. This wasn't limited to Mobil 1, but since it was the recommended oil for vettes, and no doubt Mobil 1 easily outsold Amsoil during this time frame, it was what I saw and came to believe... Mobil 1 isn't any good. Data now shows their oils, especially the ESP stuff, are some of the best, and readily available at unbelievable low prices where you can get a gallon jug at WallyWorld for $25-$28 dollars. One reason they can do this because they own the plants making the GTL base stock and also, in a partnership with Shell, own the major additive company Infineum.

 

[rstcso]

The disparity between labs is just one issue. He, like many others, completely ignores the topic of statistical "normality" and uses singular UOA data points to make conclusions which are VERY LIKELY TO BE ERRONEOUS because he demonstrates no understanding of standard deviation and its effects. LSJr's accreditation in tribology does not carry over to statistical analysis; this is abundantly clear.

I am a huge fan of using UOAs, but they are a tool most folks don't understand how to use.

Harking back to my possibly being called out as a LPJR fanboy, when I suggested to him I wanted to try different oils, he cautioned me to run a minimum of three OCIs or more with the same oil before making any decisions on whether an oil was appropriate for my engine or not. I don't know his background in statistics, but if I was running a YouTube channel and wanted to keep people watching, I'd do my best to stick to generalizations versus a course in statistical analysis. Personally, I find the subject fascinating, but I don't think anyone has accused me of being "normal", either.

 

[kschachn]

My understanding later in life, is the formulations of original synthetic oils were mostly esters, which led to problems, especially related to seal shrinkage. This wasn't limited to Mobil 1, but since it was the recommended oil for vettes, and no doubt Mobil 1 easily outsold Amsoil during this time frame, it was what I saw and came to believe... Mobil 1 isn't any good. Data now shows their oils, especially the ESP stuff, are some of the best, and readily available at unbelievable low prices where you can get a gallon jug at WallyWorld for $25-$28 dollars. One reason they can do this because they own the plants making the GTL base stock and also, in a partnership with Shell, own the major additive company Infineum.

I have never heard of this issue with Corvettes. Or with Mobil 1 for that matter. Do you have any links to this problem?

And what GTL plants does ExxonMobil own? At one time they had one but they divested themselves of it long ago.

 

[kschachn]

My understanding later in life, is the formulations of original synthetic oils were mostly esters

Mobil 1 was primarily PAO, not ester.

 

[rstcso]

My shipment of Amsoil European 0W30 has arrived. I will send a sample to Speediagnostix for a VOA. I may or may not send samples at the end of each OCI. I'm looking at it as a hobby. No $40-$60 oil test is going to have the accuracy to make well-informed decisions. Besides, my wife and I work from home. Including a round trip from Austin, TX to Madison, WI to see our daughter and grandchildren, we've only put 4,000 miles on the car in the past six months. At best, I may have 1.5 OCIs per year, so it's going to take a long, long time before any UOA actually matters.

 

[rstcso]

I have never heard of this issue with Corvettes. Or with Mobil 1 for that matter. Do you have any links to this problem?

And what GTL plants does ExxonMobil own? At one time they had one but they divested themselves of it long ago.

I read it on the internet.

 

[buster]

Due to the higher cost of Speediagnostix over Oil Analyzers, three samples I wanted to see their VOA were sent to Oil Analyzers. After receiving the results about a week later, and thinking I might use one of two in my car going forward, I sent samples from the same jugs to Speediagnostix for VOA. I did this because it's the company I plan on using for my UOA, therefore I want my baseline to be from them and not a different lab.

Here are examples showing some "discrepancies" between the two labs. I'm not saying one is more correct than the other, but it emphasizes LSJR's point to pick a lab you want to use and stick with them. Your results will be more consistent and they'll have your previous samples' results for easy comparison.

View attachment 278243

Pretty beffy add pack on the Mobil 1 ESP x2.

 

[proffittmarke]

My understanding later in life, is the formulations of original synthetic oils were mostly esters, which led to problems, especially related to seal shrinkage. This wasn't limited to Mobil 1, but since it was the recommended oil for vettes, and no doubt Mobil 1 easily outsold Amsoil during this time frame, it was what I saw and came to believe... Mobil 1 isn't any good. Data now shows their oils, especially the ESP stuff, are some of the best, and readily available at unbelievable low prices where you can get a gallon jug at WallyWorld for $25-$28 dollars. One reason they can do this because they own the plants making the GTL base stock and also, in a partnership with Shell, own the major additive company Infineum.

I remember back in 1977 when I purchased a new Buick Regal with a 350 c.i. engine. I put Mobil 1 in it and in 500 miles, every seal and gasket was leaking. I stayed away from it for nearly 35 years. Then, I put it in a new 2011 Chevrolet Silverado 5.3L and the rear main seal started leaking fairly soon afterwards. Lastly, I put it in a 2019 Nissan Titan and the oil pan gasket started leaking before the next oil change. I’ve since started using others i.e. Amsoil, and no leaks ever. Not sure if it was the oil or just my luck. But, all 3 times I went with Mobil 1, I soon had leaks. Never with any other oil in the 22 new vechicles I’ve purchased and put lots of miles on.

 

[SureshR]

For your Audi I'd say just go with a 504 spec (mobil1 ESP X1 has this in 5w30 for instance). If you stick to 508 that's fine .. as long as the OCI is max 5k miles, else by the time you hit 5500-6000 you'll have lost a quart out of the 5.something quarts of oil.

Audi cheerfully tells you to top up the lost 0w20 with a 5w30 / 0w30 504 and drive on to 10k miles, it'd probably make much more sense to drain and refill with a 504 - or just your 508 of choice, even Ravenol, if you're in warranty.

Amsoil LS-VW and Motul 508 Specific are probably the best in class for 508 spec. And then there is Castrol Edge Euro M 0w20.