Those with 150000 miles or more on A/T check in

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My parents bought a 1995 Century 4-cylinder new. They put 224,000 miles on it with no major repairs before giving it to me. According to my Dad, he changed the transmission fluid at 90K at a GM dealer, so I can assume it was AC-Delco brand Dexron III that went in. I drove the car to 270K before trading it on a van. The only transmission problem I had was the lockup converter solenoid sticking. I unplugged the connector around 262K , and had occasional slippage from 2-3 but only under hard acceleration. While the lockup worked it worked well. The transmission was a 3T40 (used to be called a THM 180) and was a very good unit.

The 1996 Ciera I just bought has a 4T60 transmission and 173K on it. I have no history of fluid changes but will be doing it soon.
 
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Originally posted by andyd:
... As insurance. I picked up another trans with 240k on it. So far ,this scheme has worked perfectly. The spare trans is waiting patiently under my work bench
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... and if you hadn't bought that spare, one of your boxes would have blown by now
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1982 cadillac cimarron, 111k, th125c (3t40) shifted perfect. Should have tightened TV cable though; it upshifted way too early and had no power. Pust last mile ever on car in 1999. Still shifted great after 17 years. Never added or changed fluid and I don't remember any leaks.

1992 cutlass ciera, 3t40/3300, drove to 153k, needed too much work to pass inspection, junked it. Shuddered occasionally taking off in 1st. Had tiny leak that I kept topped off. Adjusted TV cable, made a difference.

1993 Chevy Corsica, 3t40/3100, drove to 207k, sold it, presume still on road. Trans was perfect. Also had a tiny leak. Also adjusted the TV cable for better kickdowns.

Brother-in-law's 1991 Century, 3t40/3300, 200k, he just changed fluid last month for the first time. 2nd gear is weak, according to him. Fluid change made no difference. He drives like a looney. I think his TCC solenoid is going out on him too. I never had this apparently common problem.

Keeping the kickdown cable/vacuum thingie adjusted right on those mechanical transmissions is important. Too much power and too little line pressure will shred the clutches. If you have a 3t40 go check it now, the cable is mostly likely stretched and out of whack! Symptoms are slow kickdowns and "why'd you upshift this early" frustration. (aka "this dang tranny is tuned for economy I was just getting moving")
 
'93 Olds Ciera 3.3 3T40 170k. Did a pan drop at 80k, put Lubegard Red, GM ATF, and filter in. Added a B&M 24,000 GVW cooler about that time. Put 3 oz of ARx in at 155k. Still shifts like new.
 
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Originally posted by Kestas:
56 Ford, 132K, never serviced
63 Mercury, 130K, never serviced
67 Ford FMX, 132K, never serviced
72 Ford FMX, 145K, never serviced
74 Ford FMX, 142K, never serviced
80 Ford FIOD, 150K, with service
90 Lebaron A604, 175K, with service, transmission replaced twice

71 Cutlass, transmission working fine after 170K, with service. It was rebuilt only as a precautionary measure after 31 years service.

Can you see the trend here? I'm sure others my age have the same experience. Our family has never had to worry about automatic transmissions until the manufacturers started coming up with new designs (4-spd, electronic, lock-up torque converters).

It seems that any money we've saved by burning less gas with this new technology has gone straight to the transmission shop for repairs. This is not what I call progress. I believe we've taken a step back in automotive transmission technology.


Speak of the Devil!

I just restored my 71' Olds Cutlass convertible last year which has sat for the last several years. The tranny was "resealed" in 79' or so with 90,000 miles on it. I changed the fluid a couple of times from 82'-92' or so.
While restoring it last year my mechanic said the tranny was pretty much shot(33+ years and 150k can dry things up). So he rebuilt it. Runs like new--looks like new too!
BTW, it was my first car and I've had since 82'.
 
My transmission mechanic didn't say the transmission was shot (it was working perfectly before and after rebuild), but he did show me the old parts and how horribly brittle they had become.

It's kinda cool how you and I have had the same car for the same number of years.

The engine was done with the transmission. I'm now refreshing the rear end and perhaps someday the steering gear box and pump. Then all the important seals will have been refreshed.

I've been pointing out to others how the new gas-saving technologies have made cars incredibly expensive to maintain. Others made a good point that manufacturers now do this to meet CAFE regulations... and since CAFE is definitely more important than repairability, the manufacturers don't care if you have to spend more money to repair a car than the money you saved by driving a more efficient car. It's a "save a little now, then pay a lot more later" scenario.
 
'89 Plymouth Grand Voyager - Ultradrive 3.0V6 - Sold w/ 278K miles. changed ATF once or twice

'00 Toyota Tundra 200K miles changed Mobil1 ATF every 30K

'84 Dodge Caravan 3spd auto/4cyl about 300K - no maintenance.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Kestas:
I've been pointing out to others how the new gas-saving technologies have made cars incredibly expensive to maintain.

That's true ... and it makes life harder for the DIY mechanic. This is why I will continue to buy older cars that I can still work on. I'm not doing a lot of mileage so I don't feel guilt from excessive pollutants.
 
I feel, that over the life of the car, it's now cheaper to maintain the modern cars. Throw in the labor, and it's way cheaper. I hated the older cars, for the constant maintenance you had to put into them. Fuel injection, computer controls, electronic ignitions, they all add up to engines that last far longer and take less work to keep them going.

I have no more trouble working on the modern stuff than the 60s iron.
 
1996 Ford Crown Vic LX w/ 144k miles

4R70W Trans- Original

1st Service: Feb '01 70k miles
Transmission Flushed w/ 16qt low pressure flush machine @ local reputable service shop
Quaker State Mercon V


2nd Service: Dec '04 137k miles
Transmission serviced by myself following the Trans Service Tech Article at www.crownvic.net/tech/transservice.htm using Castrol Mercon V and Pioneer filter

My trans has never suffered from "shudder" known to the 4R70W trans.

It has never overheated or given me any other problems.

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1997 Ford Expedition
120,000 miles (not quite 150K)
E4OD
Art Carr valve body
Dino Mercon, changed annually

Modern electronics = no more "tune-ups" (points, distributor, carb, timing, idle speed, etc)

But modern electronics can also present thier own sort of unique problems.
 
Guys, this is what a Ford engineer told me on anandtech.com during a casual conversation:

Part 1:
Taurus's have always had 'low life' transmissions. Forging the steel of quality control and quality materials that'd make it outlast things that usually fail last in the car such as...engine, frame, exc, would cost unfeasable amounts of money. Most manufactures, especially Ford, do demographics and look at statistics to see how long people keep such cars (usually 4 years, with an 8-10 year life expectency for your typical sedan) and how to build it most economically to last that long.

For example, most Ford 3.0l V6 engines have a life expectancy of ~240,000 miles. This information didn't come from me, but it doesn't really matter because this is all 'well-known' industry information.

After 240,000 miles, certain parts, especially seals and rings, have warped and are at the end of their life.

Companies like Volvo, now owned by Ford, have historically built their engines and cast their blocks to diesel-like standards, which is why they outlast many competitors.

Anyway, the transmission in your Taurus has a lifespan of 120,000-150,000 miles, which is where many other components have a rated life. Of course, depending on driving habits and such, the transmission could go out faster, or it might not have been serviced regularely. Fluid and filter changes are very, very important on FWD automatic transmissions, especially considering they usually dont have transmission line coolers which often causes them to run hot.

These days, cars are built to last longer than they were through the 90's because in the 90's demographics showed that people replace their cars every 5-6 years or at or around 80-100,000 miles. These cars in this demographic engineers were told to build them to this life expectancy so they could be sold most economically. Don't think Ford is trying to build crap as cheap as possible, because all manufactures do this, its the only way you could possibly stay in business.

Since Ford was overtaken as #2 by Toyota recently, I'll tell you why. It had nothing to do with the above, Camry's have an automatic transmission life expectancy of approximately the same as the Taurus's because they're in the same class, but you will notice the Taurus is cheaper, and the Toyota takes 22 man-hours to build and the Taurus takes 30. This explains Toyota's recent recalls, because quality control wasn't where it should have been.

Ford has many of the lowest numbers of safety and mechanical recalls in the industry, because they are built to engineers specifications very well. And being an engineer, I can't stress that we design all of our cars very well, as the last engineering-flaw recall was in 1996 when we discovered that 3.8l engines were developing cooling problems because of the cooling systems position (the 3.8 was redesigned from a RWD configuration to a FWD configuration, affecting the cooling systems effectiveness, years before these problems surfaced) which led to headgasket leaks/breakage. For owners of Sables, Tauruses and Windstars, we replaced many of these engines at our cost with correcting cooling designs. If it helps any, I didn't work their back then.
 
Part 2:

The transmissions already have a decent implementation of a filter built into the pan. That gets replaced with a transkit (which replaces the gasket and filter, and often times the pan too since pan's are fragil and often dent from road debris.)

Shiftkits have always been a good way to extend the transmission life, however good kits are 200-300 dollars and not easy to install. Simple $100 kits install easily but don't do very much.

There is no way to win the battle with automatic transmissions, though. We don't install shiftkits factory in any cars except various Mustang and GT models, which have very well built transmissions. However, speaking for the industry, automatic transmissions to this day have an unreliable nature. The mechanical design of current automatics leave a lot to be desired in reliability, and all automatics will usually need a rebuild somewhere along the line. It's a fluid driven system, so keeping the fluid viscosity correct is the most important factor in keeping them running, which is why every 30,000 miles it is recommended to purge the fluid, change the pan (if any corrosion or damage exists) and gasket/filter. This can all be done for under $100, and when you consider a rebuild is 800-1200 dollars, spending $100 every few years not only guarantees proper performance but WILL extend the life.

Driving an automatic hard will wear it out faster, because it will run hotter. Also, towing excess weight (people or cargo) will wear it out faster because this will also cause it to run hot. Most of our front-drive models, including the Taurus, have a transmission fluid cooler in-line.

If you are considering a shiftkit, there are other things to consider. The reason we dont install them in anything but performance cars is because they are very HARD on other parts, especially on front-wheel drive cars. RWD configurations take better to a transkit and more horsepower because the differential and driveline can be built much stronger with considerably less revenue...there is simply more room to work with. Since I'd guess very few Taurus owners add significant horsepower, the front-end components (axles, ball joints, control arms, tie rods, sway bar, exc) are built to a threshold of 30% more power capability than the stock power rating. A trans kit will cause the car to shift much harder, causing additional wear on these components much quicker.

As for Honda, they have never built reliable automatic transmissions, and from my experience, no Japanese manufacture does. Even Mazda, partially owned by Ford, now uses Ford automatic transmission designs in their newer models, and have had a steady reliability increase in transmission behavior since the mid-90's. This is simply answered with the notion that Japanese (and many other world-wide manufacturers) build mostly standard transmissions and don't have much experience or care to build automatics well because 80-90% of their cars are manual. This is slowly changing, because most Americans prefer automatics, which is why American companies were among the first to offer cars with Automatic transmissions in mind, and usually standard equipment, not an option.

The only exception to this rule would be Toyota, which has a demographic showing about 50% of Toyota owners have automatics. However, off the record, Toyota has notoriously unreliable automatics, but excellent standard transmissions with very reliable, very comfortable clutches.
 
Our daughter is now driving our old 1988 Accord,(purchaced new). 328,XXX miles on the original engine and automatic tranny. ATF changes every year since new using DEXRON II/III.
 
92 Camry 175,000 miles
changed to Amsoil ATF at 25,000 and then a drain and fill about every 30,000 miles. Screen and pan dropped twice in the interval but screen basically clean each time. Never had a flush. Toyota has a plug so drain and fills are pretty easy to do.
 
2001 Montana approaching 250k miles on the original AT. Had it professionally flushed every 30k from new till 150k. Trans developed harsh shifting and a whining/growling noise. Investigation revealed a pan full of sludge. Flushed and filled with Amsoil ATF, installed a bypass filter and the noise/harshness went away over the next 10k. 100k later she's still shifting like new.
 
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Originally posted by PandaBear:
Part 2:

[edit]

As for Honda, they have never built reliable automatic transmissions, and from my experience, no Japanese manufacture does.


I've got 320K KM out my '84 Accord auto w/ 100K KM fluid changes. It's slipping but has done well.

quote:

Originally posted by PandaBear:

[edit]

The only exception to this rule would be Toyota, which has a demographic showing about 50% of Toyota owners have automatics. However, off the record, Toyota has notoriously unreliable automatics, but excellent standard transmissions with very reliable, very comfortable clutches.


I would disagree. Japan's Aisin Warner auto trans Volvos (and apparently some Toyotas) use is an excellent trans. I've heard accounts of many folks getting >200K miles out of these.
 
My mother's 1990 oldsmobile with 4T60 (440-T4) FWD transaxle went over 200k miles with no maintenance other than a quart of ATF added along the way.

Coilpacks, alternators, and brakes were entirely different stories however.
 
1994 ford ranger stx 2wd a4ld 200,000 miles. changed the fluid and filter about every 20k. i had one problem about a year ago when the vacuum modulator failed and caused atf to get sucked into the intake (the disappearing atf trick). replaced the modulator ($20) and running fine since.
 
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