This is why I won't consider a Ford, Chevy or Toyota P/U

My big problem with this (and any 'luxury' truck) is that they load them so full of crap that you end up with a 1/2 ton truck with a 10-11k tow rating and then because they are so chock full of crap, they have a 1200lb payload, which makes them next to useless for actually doing 'truck stuff', let alone being able to actually tow what they're rated for and have people in the cab.

You can get very well equipped rams (and I'm assuming same with Ford/GM) with 1700+ pounds of payload, you just need to know what to look for. Like you, my truck was purchased to tow my RV + utility trailers so I made sure that payload was high before parting with my hard earned pesos. You can find them, just have to know what features add the weight and most of them are "useless" ones that you don't need anyway.

My door sticker says 1750 lbs payload. I have a big horn 4x4 crew cab, with highway gears (3.21) I'm limited to around 8200 pounds but with towing gears (3.92) my exact truck bumps up to around 11,000. The 3.92 is like $200 to add to the truck, I purposely ordered my truck without as I wanted the better MPG and I'm not ever going to tow > 8000 pounds in a half ton no matter who builds it or how its configured. 3/4 tons exist for this function.

Doing the math: 8000 pounds at 13% tongue weight = about 1040. 1750 - 1040 = 710. That leaves considerable amount of room for passenger/cargo weight.

Using my current trailer at 6000 lbs (I'm not likely to go larger anytime soon): That give 970 lbs of payload left!

Even then; though I try hard never to exceed my payload, what matters to me most is my RAWR. There is some room left there yet when pulling a trailer. You can exceed your payload by a few hundred while not exceeding your hitch or rear axle ratings.

Those are the real values which can't be exceeded, payload is more of a general guide; if you're not over your payload you won't be over your axle ratings, but you can be over your payload and still under your axles. And I suspect this is the difference between a half ton and a midsize; the half ton will take more abuse, and will care less about additional pounds than a mid size will. Adding 50 pounds over rear axle on a civic is a terrible idea. On a one ton it won't even notice. As you go up in car/truck size, the same additional 50 pounds are less of a problem as they are built stronger, and the percentage/ratio of 50 pounds vs rear axle rating gets less and less.

I have the level 2 package (highest available in big horn) which means some very nice creature comforts (heated seats, large/upgraded dash and a bunch of stuff I've long forgotten), but no sun roof, no etorque, no air suspension etc; nothing other than crewcab + 4x4 which kill weight. Just a bench up front with the folding middle seat.

It's not a "luxury truck" when compared to a limited/tungsten. But's a luxury truck to me considering how plush it rides/handles, the features it has vs my older rides, the attractive exterior/interior styling, the smooth/linear/strong v8 performance and sound. Sometimes we just need to come back down to earth and adjust our expectations. I wouldn't waste a single cent on a limited. This bighorn was already a massive jump up for me and though I could have afforded the limited, I could have never justified it.

But yeah, my back seats don't recline. I don't believe I've even folded them down yet though, they stay in the folded up position and I use the floor space as a giant cargo room with a perfectly flat floor.
 
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This is exactly it. Back before the crazy pricing times when my kids were supposed to go off to college not to return I was looking into getting a single cab / long box - like I had when I was young. It was supposed to be me and the Mrs. and 2 little dogs.

Base model had pretty good payload. As soon as you started adding any options it dropped to nothing. I think a loaded single cab 8 foot box had approximately the payload of my Frontier.
if i had to guess you were looking at rams. for whatever reason ram lowers the gvwr for the regular cab base trucks.
 
Ram is working on a three row of seats truck. The 2 1/2 foot bed will be nice.
It'll sell like crazy in Utah. Not kidding. Plenty of people in Utah delete front center consoles to get a bench and thus room for one more.
 
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Then they will say "get a trailer", but I don't want to drag around a trailer, hook and unhook, find a place to park it, worry about the lights working which observing others pulling trailers they never do.
So much this.

Then again both the wife and I use our truck beds regularly. Bulky, oversize, or greasy, smelly things you don't want inside. We'd both need to have a trailer hooked up 70% of the time.

I don't even like taking jugs of waste oil in my Wrangler (our only vehicle without a bed)
 
Trash once a week. Mulch once a month. Stinky fishing stuff you don't want inside. Moved my kid to the apartment yesterday. Camping gear. The occasional construction project or furniture move. Today I will load my string trimmer and some yard tools for a location I need to clean up a little bit away.

Then they will say "get a trailer", but I don't want to drag around a trailer, hook and unhook, find a place to park it, worry about the lights working which observing others pulling trailers they never do.
Stand corrected, 97% of its life 😆. Point is complaining about trucks fancy cutting into capacity does not matter for the majority of sales. There are folks who buy trucks for a purpose like a nice welder I met at Starbucks who had F350 sagging with a larger welder/generator? At rear and his boxes of gear in bed.
 
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I rode in the back of a '15+ F150 and thought it was quite spacious compared to the previous gen. But maybe on a longer trip I would have wanted to recline?
 
if i had to guess you were looking at rams. for whatever reason ram lowers the gvwr for the regular cab base trucks.

Is it the regular cab which does it, or the 3.6? From what I can see most 3.6's have 200 lbs less, but the lighter 3.6 also weighs less than the heavy iron block 5.7 so I'm sure it cancels out somewhat.

That's for the 5th gen "DT", you can't order a regular cab 5th gen IIRC.

If you want less than 1000 lbs, get a loaded limited with the eco diesel. They're down to 970-ish range :oops:
 
Try getting passive entry (being able to unlock doors with the key fob still in your pocket) in a Ram with cloth seats.

Doesn't exist. Must go to a Laramie with leather seats.
 
Try getting passive entry (being able to unlock doors with the key fob still in your pocket) in a Ram with cloth seats.

Doesn't exist. Must go to a Laramie with leather seats.

You can add it yourself to any trim if you buy the hardware and use AlphaOBD etc. I can't be bothered.
 
My big problem with this (and any 'luxury' truck) is that they load them so full of crap that you end up with a 1/2 ton truck with a 10-11k tow rating and then because they are so chock full of crap, they have a 1200lb payload, which makes them next to useless for actually doing 'truck stuff', let alone being able to actually tow what they're rated for and have people in the cab.
50 years ago you used to be able to order What you wanted. With all the automation it should be even easier today. Everything is a "package". I was shocked that the Audi Q8 mid level (prestige?) Or even the base level didn't have standard heated and cooled seats. You could option a Ford Fiesta a few years ago with heated and cooled seats and it's extra on a 58 plus grand Audi? Even the sales guy said he was a little surprised by that. It seems like vehicle manufacturers are going backwards sometimes.
 
Try getting passive entry (being able to unlock doors with the key fob still in your pocket) in a Ram with cloth seats.

Doesn't exist. Must go to a Laramie with leather seats.
Unless you open up the door and add the sensor which used to be easy at least. Someone my sister knew bought a base model vehicle and it had all of the hardware installed. Apparently a few dollars later and he activated the lock unlock function fairly easy. Mazda has rumored to be dropping the keys for a "Tesla style " card for 2025 models. Dumbest thing ever, way to go Tesla.
 
i am the opposite i want a mid size standard cab with no frills for a fair price, i need 4WD + a manual tranny is preferred!!!
 
Is it the regular cab which does it, or the 3.6? From what I can see most 3.6's have 200 lbs less, but the lighter 3.6 also weighs less than the heavy iron block 5.7 so I'm sure it cancels out somewhat.

That's for the 5th gen "DT", you can't order a regular cab 5th gen IIRC.

If you want less than 1000 lbs, get a loaded limited with the eco diesel. They're down to 970-ish range :oops:
im not sure on that, I know that every regular cab (work truck) I've seen that was a ram had a lower gvwr. my dad had a rental for work for a bit and hauled a blade for a tractor with it and he said the blade weighed more that what the payload for the truck was. (utility tractor blade) so nothing massive.
 
The rear bench seat was super comfy with a huge amount of space on my 2019 Ram 1500 classic crew cab. The rear seat-back had a good fixed angle to it, where a lot of 4-door pickups do not.
 
i am the opposite i want a mid size standard cab with no frills for a fair price, i need 4WD + a manual tranny is preferred!!!
The epa has more or less killed the manual transmission along with many automatics getting better fuel economy. Manual transmissions have to be certified separately ( which is stupid). The New Nissan 400z manual version has bigger mufflers as it's tested in 3rd gear vs 5th for the automatic. If sales are below 10 percent most manufacturers drop the manual. Porsche has a 25 percent give or take on mtx yet for 2025 pdk only which is surprising.
 
I have quite loved my truck. And I’m always using the bed. Yet, right now I have a used SUV on shipment for a test drive at Carmax. This truck has been wonderful but it’s had a couple of problems and the rate seems to be increasing all too early in life. It’s quite complex. We are considering getting out of it before the cascading maintenance increases. We looked at where we could keep a trailer in our yard today. I’d gladly have another truck, but quite frankly they are so expensive - the TCO is High… it’s not in the cards right now.

I’m not committed to trading it. But it’s either keep this one and deal with it or simply not get another, at least as the plan is now. No, I don’t want the inconvenience of a trailer every time I need plywood, but then again a passenger vehicle has advantages in traffic.

I am glad we have choices. I’ll say this - the improved MPG available in the newer trucks does close the gap and aids in their usability. My ford shows 20.8 average right now, including an 90 minute idle this week, which never helps mpg averages. A CRV gets 26 around town. That’s not a huge difference when looking at total cost of ownership. My truck is within 1 mpg of the Lexus sedan we had an a Volvo s60 we had prior. Yes, it comes at a cost of sensitive systems and complexity, which is biting us a little, so there’s still that. But I like we have choices.
 
Trash once a week. Mulch once a month. Stinky fishing stuff you don't want inside. Moved my kid to the apartment yesterday. Camping gear. The occasional construction project or furniture move. Today I will load my string trimmer and some yard tools for a location I need to clean up a little bit away.

Then they will say "get a trailer", but I don't want to drag around a trailer, hook and unhook, find a place to park it, worry about the lights working which observing others pulling trailers they never do.
Some new trucks are having issues with the trailer control module (different than the "brake controller") and the trailer-causing one or more tail lights to go out semi-frequently....until you restart the truck or any other number of random things you can do.
 
Pickups never even had rear seats when I was a kid. Now, the rear seats need to recline.
The reclining rear seats in our 2014 diesel megacab Laramie (poor person truck) are also leather and heated. That said, the truck is old enough a pano rear sunroof isn't an option.

And the payload capacity is 4130 pounds according to the sticker.

I remember squeezing into the rear jump seats of my dad's S-15 as a kid, hoping we weren't in a wreck.
 
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