THIS is Texas? 6º F

[MNgopher]

Hmm... was just saw a tweet saying that the EPA refused to allow Texas to run all of their operational power plants at 100% output during the crisis and that there was 110% of capacity available to meet the demand except for the standing federal limits.

So, first off, consider the source of the information. The Twitter feed you've quoted states "I maintain a news aggregation site called Deplatformed for conservatives who feel censored by the left." You decide if you think that is unbiased information or not.

Then, in that thread, the poster included the actual order from the Department of Energy (note the poster already got it wrong - it was not the EPA who ordered anything here). The order didn't say that Texas could not use the sources of power at rates that exceeded their permits - what it did say is here are the conditions in which you can use that power - Under a Level 2 or 3 event and must be curtailed once the event ends, and there is a cost associated with that power.

The original poster gives you the original clickbait tweet and then issues a correction in the 9th tweet of the thread. Guess which tweet gets shared and which one is ignored...

Use Twitter sources extremely carefully - these are typical tatics. Get everyone riled up over a controversial tweet with a correction buried tweets later that is conveniently ignored.

 

[Wolf359]

So, first off, consider the source of the information. The Twitter feed you've quoted states "I maintain a news aggregation site called Deplatformed for conservatives who feel censored by the left." You decide if you think that is unbiased information or not.

Then, in that thread, the poster included the actual order from the Department of Energy (note the poster already got it wrong - it was not the EPA who ordered anything here). The order didn't say that Texas could not use the sources of power at rates that exceeded their permits - what it did say is here are the conditions in which you can use that power - Under a Level 2 or 3 event and must be curtailed once the event ends, and there is a cost associated with that power.

The original poster gives you the original clickbait tweet and then issues a correction in the 9th tweet of the thread. Guess which tweet gets shared and which one is ignored...

Use Twitter sources extremely carefully - these are typical tatics. Get everyone riled up over a controversial tweet with a correction buried tweets later that is conveniently ignored.

Oh yeah, I think I respond to that earlier in this thread. I don't think people actually read the order and understood what it actually said. There was some industry jargon in there. It was basically allowed but they still had to follow rules and report on it afterwards. Not that it was denied. Like when I worked at a power plant, the place was permitted for 4 days on oil instead of running on gas. In case of any issue with the gas supply. I'm sure if there was some emergency, they would have allowed the place to run for more than 4 days if the power was needed. 4 days was probably just to allow time to get permission to continue running. I hear that's what's going on in some places in Texas, they're running fuel oil instead of gas. It sounds like many of the gas plants weren't even set up for oil.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

The environmentalists are going to have to get off of their high-horses about opposing nuclear power generation, SOON! Renewable energy is all-well-and-good except that there needs to be backup power for the times that wind and solar can't generate power (which is frequently/daily), and hydroelectric power is great, IF there is water available. Natural gas turbine power generation is a good short-term solution, but nuclear power is the only practical long-term solution.

Nuclear is the way to go. Got to get over Three Mile Island.

 

[Dave Hess]

Nuclear is very safe if done CORRECTLY.

 

[IndyIan]

Nuclear is the way to go. Got to get over Three Mile Island.

At the moment, but what's the prediction for the cost of small scale solar generation and power storage? I think the fear is that half way through a nuclear plants construction, suddenly the math doesn't work for many people to be connected to a grid at all. You can bet there are more than a few texans who will be pulling the plug on a grid connection as soon as they can!

 

[4WD]

In a home I rented in the Shadow Briar neighbourhood in Houston in 1990, I recall a few things that had me wondering.

1. The water line came out of the ground outside of the house, turned 90 degrees and entered the house. I purchased a heat trace tape and wrapped the pipe in insulation. The salesman at Home Depot noted the tape was manufactured in Canada and told me “ they know about cold up there”. Yes indeed.

2. Basements are rare in Houston and for good reason. ( recall the flood?). Therefore the plumbing pipes are in the attic instead of the basement.

3. The water heater and most of the piping was in the attic was on the cold side of the attic insulation. I mentioned this to a friend at work and he joked the pipes were there to hold down the insulation during hurricanes.

This was back in 1990. I sure hope the building codes have been improved since then. The neighbourhood was fairly upscale with a community pool and security officers, so I doubt the construction was any worse than the norm.

I don’t want to criticize my Texas friends but it seems that a one in 10 year event should be covered by building codes. The authorities are to blame here.

That’s pretty lazy construction … my pipe is under plastic covered R30 insulation and 3/4” decking over that.
My rafters covered with bi directional radiant barrier …
Thinking what could have been better was if the decking was TechShield with foil down ?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Oh yeah, I think I respond to that earlier in this thread. I don't think people actually read the order and understood what it actually said. There was some industry jargon in there. It was basically allowed but they still had to follow rules and report on it afterwards. Not that it was denied. Like when I worked at a power plant, the place was permitted for 4 days on oil instead of running on gas. In case of any issue with the gas supply. I'm sure if there was some emergency, they would have allowed the place to run for more than 4 days if the power was needed. 4 days was probably just to allow time to get permission to continue running. I hear that's what's going on in some places in Texas, they're running fuel oil instead of gas. It sounds like many of the gas plants weren't even set up for oil.

I would think the turbine would have to be designed for that. I don’t think you just start pumping oil into it.

 

[Wolf359]

Many of the gas plants were not set up for oil because they burn the gas in gas turbines. You cannot put oil through them.

I worked at a natural gas cogeneration plant years ago in the Northeast. It was permitted to run crude oil through it. You can run oil or gas through the turbines. You just have to be set up for it, there were a few tanks on site that held about 4 days worth of oil in case the gas ever got shut off. With pipeline constraints, the gas company could shut off the flow to gas plant for about 4 days a year. The plant just shut down on those days instead of switching to oil because it wasn't worth it to do so in the winter. Plant made about 2 cent a kilowatt in the winter vs 6 in the summer. That was a while ago though. Usually the curtailments lasted a few hours. Mostly shut down at night on cold days when residential heating demand was high.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The ones burning oil with the gas are very rare. Look at the log scale on the bottom. I actually edited my comment to acknowledge the presence of the few that mix fuel oil into the gas turbines. 10,000 natural gas turbines vs 100 that mix light distillate oil with it.

 

[Wolf359]

The ones burning oil with the gas are very rare. Look at the log scale on the bottom. I actually edited my comment to acknowledge the presence of the few that mix fuel oil into the gas turbines. 10,000 natural gas turbines vs 100 that mix light distillate oil with it.

Oil is basically for emergency use, you wouldn't normally run it which is why it doesn't show up when looking at the mix of fuel used. At time I think only one test was ever run after the plant was built to see if it worked at least while I worked there. It could run a mix between 100% gas and 100% oil.

 

[4WD]

It’s common for certain GE or Solar power turbines to run a while off diesel until production is established on offshore platforms … once enough wells are online they switch to natty gas …

 

[Snagglefoot]

It’s common for certain GE or Solar power turbines to run a while off diesel until production is established on offshore platforms … once enough wells are online they switch to natty gas …

Yes, and specially built for the platforms.

 

[PandaBear]

Very tough few days near San Antonio. 4 inches of snow but it was 7 degrees yesterday. We had power for 2 hours yesterday total.

About 2am this morning I couldn't take it anymore, and started boiling pots of water to get some warm air in the house.

Power came on from 4am to 6pm, and we got the house heated up to 70 (it was 49 degrees inside the house).

Power went out again today at 6am, and came back just now at 10am.

I'm trying to knock out a few things for work, but I was so happy to take a hot shower and eat a toasted sandwich.

We went to get gas for my wifes Tuscon last night, and the pumps were frozen at the Valero. I pumped about 20 cents worth of nothing into the tank and took it back home.

We would have gone to a motel but we own the house and have two cats, and I didn't want to deal with burst pipes when I got home, so I tended them most of the night by dripping water.

It was 28 degrees yesterday afternoon, there was no restaurants open and the food in my fridge was rapidly decaying. Decided to grill chicken with my propane grill. I'm sure the neighbors think I'm a nut.

We are going to throw away the $200 in food I bought, what a shame.

I was always told that you can leave your food outside when you run into cold weather and power out condition. Would that have worked? or it is really urban legend?

 

[PandaBear]

Some things just won’t ever change I guess. Was in Texas actually at Ingleside TX. Nice folks, area and good times. I’ll pray something “changes” soon. Having no backups kinda pisses me off for sure. OVERKILL has made valid points; WHAT IS STOPPING Texas from adding few nuclear plants? Seriously

1) oil and gas industry lobby
2) NIMBY
3) lawsuits and delays get very expensive for nuclear, unless you have a dictatorship and central planning government that forbid protests and elections.

 

[Wolf359]

1) oil and gas industry lobby
2) NIMBY
3) lawsuits and delays get very expensive for nuclear, unless you have a dictatorship and central planning government that forbid protests and elections.

Probably the last one. Oil and gas lobby has nothing to do with it. When many utilities that started nuclear project go bankrupt because the project goes wildly over budget and they pretty much all go over budget, you don't get too many pursing it.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I was always told that you can leave your food outside when you run into cold weather and power out condition. Would that have worked? or it is really urban legeTh

Sure, the normal temp for a fridge is 37 F. If it gets below 32 it might freeze but for the four days or so, you could probably put the stuff in a cardboard box and cover it with a blanket and it wouldn't freeze. Back in my starving student days we would put frozen meat in the balcony of our apartment and it would be frozen from Christmas to March. Of course we would eat it by the end of February.

 

[PandaBear]

It amazes me how hysterical people are about a few days of intermittent power interruption in parts of Texas, but I hear nothing but silence about California's repetitive blackouts, year in and year out. Why are people, many not in Texas and some not in the USA, in full blown PANIC mode?

Well, I think a lot of people feel that Texas are really hating Californians for some reason and then there were a bit of a rivalry going on, and now that Texas got into some problem they come back and say it is not because of California being California, or the politics being the reason for it, because you guys are having the same issue when your politicians are doing the exact opposite things and you still have problems.

It is silly really, the real issue is people wanting savings now or people wanting to pay a lot to avoid problems, and how much is too much and how much reliability is worth.

 

[PandaBear]

The environmentalists are going to have to get off of their high-horses about opposing nuclear power generation, SOON! Renewable energy is all-well-and-good except that there needs to be backup power for the times that wind and solar can't generate power (which is frequently/daily), and hydroelectric power is great, IF there is water available. Natural gas turbine power generation is a good short-term solution, but nuclear power is the only practical long-term solution.

I want nuke in your backyard, not mine. I love it being clean and reliable and cheap if you do not oppose it. If you oppose it and bankrupt the plan it is your fault not mine.

 

[4WD]

Well, I think a lot of people feel that Texas are really hating Californians for some reason and then there were a bit of a rivalry going on, and now that Texas got into some problem they come back and say it is not because of California being California, or the politics being the reason for it, because you guys are having the same issue when your politicians are doing the exact opposite things and you still have problems.

It is silly really, the real issue is people wanting savings now or people wanting to pay a lot to avoid problems, and how much is too much and how much reliability is worth.

I did fine and have always planned for outages year round … yet we stayed online …
Only complaint I have about California is they are sending millions of dollars all over the USA meddling in other states’ affairs

 

[Jetronic]

I was always told that you can leave your food outside when you run into cold weather and power out condition. Would that have worked? or it is really urban legend?

depends on the outside temperature. If it's freezing, you can put frozen foods outside, but not the stuff in your fridge of course