Thinner oil = Increased wear?

[Gary Allan]

1040, XS650, 427 ...I still see you as instructors correcting papers here.

..or..

This appears to be a test. "What's wrong with this picture?" type thing.

 

[androbot2084]

The Amsoil 5w30 meets the mil-prf-2104g specification which covers SAE 30 weight oils. However it seems that the 2104h specification requires 40 weight oils like 5w40 15w40 and SAE 40.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by jmacmaster:
Big deal. The fact that a 5W-20 oil passes this test, with its mere 10,000 mile run, doesn't convince me that the 20 weight is safe for the particular type of severe/extreme driving that the test is designed to test for, that is, a lot of miles of fast driving. Not when most engines are now good for 200,000 miles or more. I don't know about the rest of the country, but out here in the west people drive at high speeds on the freeways, sometimes way over the speed limit, all the time, and in the west its a long way from here to anywhere. I personally know people who drive 10,000 mi. or more, sometimes a LOT more, way over the speed limit, every year on the freeways of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming.

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Double BFD. It's 90+ everyday here at least 6 months of the year, EVERY YEAR. AC is permanently on. We have a lot of wide open spaces where people tend to ignore the speed limits. Heck, even in the bigger cities like Dallas and Houston most newbies freak when loaded dump trucks blow by them in the left lane doing 85+. Given all that, there are probably hundreds of thousands of Fords (trucks and SUVs mostly), Mazdas and Hondas that have run 5w20s well past 120K miles by now and they're not blowing up or heading to the junkyard any faster than any other make or model.

You guys get a little heat wave in other parts of the country and you start freaking. We have a heat wave every year, it's called summer.

The 5w20 grade has to past the same test as 5w30 and the 10w30 grades. So if you don't trust the 5w20 grade, you need to be equally fearful of the other two.

[ July 31, 2006, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]

 

[androbot2084]

Synlube For Life 0w50 meets the MIL-PRF-46167C specification so you are right there are no upper viscosity limits so even a 0w100 might even work if they could get it to pass the tests.

[ July 31, 2006, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: androbot2084 ]

 

[androbot2084]

The 0w50 synthetic oil also meets the MIL-L-22851D piston aviation specifications which usually calls for a SAE 50 grade motor oil.

 

[Shipo]

quote:

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Originally posted by androbot2084:
The 0w50 synthetic oil also meets the MIL-L-22851D piston aviation specifications which usually calls for a SAE 50 grade motor oil.

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I'm thinking "not likely". Do you have any references to support such a claim?

 

[N2OIL]

Androbot you keep mentioning Synlube @ $33+ dollars a quart if you could point a single UOA that shows a benefit I would have interest.

Also you mention military applications & oil specs listed. The time I spent on my hobbies in the Army the motorpool toys all were on UOA and the Army actually has analysis labs on many major commands. So there is not a guessing game they sample often and have excellent trend data.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

I was referring to MIL-L-46167, is this not a current spec any longer XS650? When I was looking at MIL-PRF-2104G I did see viscosities mentioned in a more complete text after I had posted, however nothing that required a particular viscosities use as I thought androbot2084 was implying when that spec was referenced. I should have said that MIL-L-46167 would qualify several viscosity oils. Sorry, please don’t beat me please. I’m not in an industry where I need to know much about mil specs, is there anyplace (preferably on the internet that I don’t have to pay an arm and a leg for) that I can get current mil-spec’s at?

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1040 WreckerMan:
I was referring to MIL-L-46167, is this not a current spec any longer XS650? When I was looking at MIL-PRF-2104G I did see viscosities mentioned in a more complete text after I had posted, however nothing that required a particular viscosities use as I thought androbot2084 was implying when that spec was referenced. I should have said that MIL-L-46167 would qualify several viscosity oils. Sorry, please don’t beat me please. I’m not in an industry where I need to know much about mil specs, is there anyplace (preferably on the internet that I don’t have to pay an arm and a leg for) that I can get current mil-spec’s at?

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20 lashes with an oily shop rag for you

The middle letter, such as "-L-" in many Mil Specs has been replaced by PRF. I believe L stood for Lubricant, PRF stand for Performance. That started several years ago, I believe as part of hamonizing Mil specs more with commercial standards.

You can access MIL specs and standards and a boat load of other stuff here for free if you get an account.
http://assist.daps.dla.mil/online/start/

 

[ekpolk]

I remain disturbed by the nearly universal BITOG phenomenon of focusing on oil alone, as if one grade or another is "good" while another is inherently "evil."

With all due respect, this is senseless.

What really matters, IMO, is the oil, engine, and circumstances combination. If 5w-20 is the appropriate lube for one's application, then ummmmmmm, use it. If 20w-50 is, then use that. Interestingly (at least to me) is that there are machines, not cars of course (yet), that use air as the lube in their high-speed bearings.

As mentioned previously, where are all the dead Fords, Hondas, Mazdas, etc from Texas and Florida and Arizona)? If 5w-20 actually was inherently bad oil, or if it is just wrong for these vehicles, then by now, we should see scrapyards full of nice cars with prematurely worn out engines. We would also be seeing legions of very, very angry owners wantin' justice. Where are they?????

 

[androbot2084]

And why couldn't 0w30 or 0w40 or 0w50 work just as well as 5w20 ?
0w30 and 0w40 is a universal oil that can be used in 0w20 5w20 5w30 and 10w30 applications in all temperatures.

0w30 0w40 and 0w50 46167D engine oil can even replace 5w40 15w40 and SAE 40 oil for temperature ranges of -50 degrees F to 90 degrees F even in high performance applications such as the Detoit Diesel 2 stroke engine.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

Ekpolk, I've tried give a range of oils that I think fit the conditions as I realize that in any given case there is usually more than one good oil. In just about any case where Xw20 is spec'd, Xw30 will work since most Xw30's shear to a high 20wt anyway. At work I'm forced to use the least expensive oil that still performs adequately. That is why we use 15w40 in all the diesel engines and 5w30 in all the gas engines. Certainly 5w40 would be better, but it's just not worth it in our operating environment. In very hot weather a higher viscosity oil certainly would help I think, however, a good 20wt will work just fine. Most people don't keep anything for more than 100K miles anyway, and just about any oil will go that far if it's changed once in a while.

androbot2084, I've got to say you are quite entertaining. I get a kick out of all your references to “high performance” Detroit 2 strokes. Hehe, they haven't been high performance since about 1960 when all the 4 strokes started walking by.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I just wonder why anyone would perceverate on topics in which the examples, in some attempt to validate his assertions, have been toppled again and again.

Even with fleet operator input ...it just bounces off.

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you can't get NASA to turn that rock formation into a face on Mars.

 

[AEHaas]

I too would like that recent SAE reference on 20 wt. oils.

aehaas

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
1040, XS650, 427 ...I still see you as instructors correcting papers here.

..or..

This appears to be a test. "What's wrong with this picture?" type thing.

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I see BITOG as a place to exchange information. When incorrect information is posted, it does no one any good to leave it unchallanged.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by androbot2084:
Synlube For Life 0w50 meets the MIL-PRF-46167C specification so you are right there are no upper viscosity limits so even a 0w100 might even work if they could get it to pass the tests.

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Then why aren't the qualified vendors list? It's a pretty good sized market to not pick-up if they went to the expens to actually qualify the oil. Or do they just claim that they meet it.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by androbot2084:
[qb] Synlube For Life 0w50 meets the MIL-PRF-46167C specification so you are right there are no upper viscosity limits so even a 0w100 might even work if they could get it to pass the tests.

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Then why aren't they on the qualified vendors list? It's a pretty good sized market to not pick-up if they went to the expens to actually qualify the oil. Or do they just claim that they meet it.

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quote:

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The Amsoil 5w30 meets the mil-prf-2104g specification which covers SAE 30 weight oils. However it seems that the 2104h specification requires 40 weight oils like 5w40 15w40 and SAE 40.

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Do you make that **** up yourself or get it directly from Amsoil? Once again, why weren't they on the qualified vendors list if they really met the spec?


2104G had to be 10W, 30, 40 or 15W-40. No other viscosities were in the spec.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
1040, XS650, 427 ...I still see you as instructors correcting papers here.

..or..

This appears to be a test. "What's wrong with this picture?" type thing.

---

I see BITOG as a place to exchange information. When incorrect information is posted, it does no one any good to leave it unchallanged.

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Agreed

I expect nothing less from my esteemed heavy weight associates. I rely heavily on your take on things for validation or debunking of radical offerings.

[ July 31, 2006, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[androbot2084]

I don't see the US military using these 5w20 lightweight oils. For combat duty the military uses 0w30 synthetic oil for temperatures from -50 degrees F to 90 degrees F and 5w40 synthetic oil from -30 degrees F to 120 degrees F.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by androbot2084:
I don't see the US military using these 5w20 lightweight oils. For combat duty the military uses 0w30 synthetic oil for temperatures from -50 degrees F to 90 degrees F and 5w40 synthetic oil from -30 degrees F to 120 degrees F.

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Cites please, along with appropriate mil spec or standard numbers.