Ford Ecoboost (F150, Navigator) cold start rattle and oil viscosity

[Navi]

I have decided to discontinue use of Shell Gas Truck. Sorry BobIsTheOilGuy forum. Ive looked over different UOAs and it seems this oil shears too much.

Now Im not an engineer, scientist or doctor and Im just guessing based on internet readings. I think sheering has something to do with the cam phasers going bad.

I tip my hat to you guys running 5W40, but Im taking my truck to get the oil changed to Rotella T6 5W30 and after 4500 miles do a Blackstone sample.

 

[kschachn]

Can you post those UOAs where it is conclusively shearing as opposed to possible fuel dilution? Blackstone can't tell BTW.

 

[Navi]

Im going to get the Amsoil sample results in days. Blackstone has it and tommorrow I have the mechanic drain the gas truck oil and put in the T6 5W30. It will be a while until next drain and Blackstone test. So sorry for the wait. It will be a long process. Total time to get results from Blackstone including shipping is 2 weeks.

 

[BeerCan]

I have almost 100k worth of uoa on this engine with Castrol 0w40 if you are interested

 

[noclutch]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Can you post those UOAs where it is conclusively shearing as opposed to possible fuel dilution? Blackstone can't tell BTW.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...8k-mi-18-3-5eb-f150-with-12k#Post5182378

Not conclusive by any means, but how much decrease in cSt does 3% fuel cause? I can't do that math LOL

In my case, viscosity went from 11.7 to 9.5. I could probably safely assume had I started at a typical 10.7 cSt I would have been sub-grade at this interval.

 

[DAVIDO49]

First, thanks to all those who furthered my knowledge here on different things regarding oil. A few months back my engine was a complete mess with a horrible cold start rattle and diesel like sound. It ultimately turned out to be the cam phasers and underwent a month long repair at the dealership as a result of backordered parts. This post is in regards to the Ford F150 / Lincoln Navigator /Ford Expedition 3.5 liter Ecoboost cold start rattle and pinging noise.



I wanted to deliver the results of my investigation to this forum so if someone Googles it they might find some solutions.

#1. The main reason why a camphaser would fail is oil viscosity. The wrong viscosity oil will eventually cause problems with a camphaser. Now I know there are some guys who would put a 5W40 in an engine which normally specifies 5W30. That might work with some engines, but I dont believe it will work reliably all the time with these Ford Ecoboost engines. Here is an article which better explains the role of the camphasers and lists reasons why they fail.

Article on CamPhasers

#2. The 3.5 liter Ford Ecoboost engine...a turbo charged direct injected engine...is really good at shearing or thinning or diluting the engine oil. I have examined many different used oil analysis or "UOA" and it seems the Ecoboost makes short work of the usual Mobil 1 and Valvoline oils. So normally these engines will take a 5W30 but by 5000 miles that oil is now a 5W20. This might be the problem with the camphasers going bad eventually.

#3. The only two 5W30 oils I found which seem to hold their grade...not turn into a 5W20 by 5000 miles...are Amsoil Signature Series 5W30 and Shell Rotella T6 5W30 MultiVehicle. These oils seem to stay in the viscosity range of 5W30s.

#4. There are some guys out there running Shell Rotella T6 5W40 but I just cant be sure what will happen to the camphasers or the catalytic converter after prolonged use. The Ecoboost engine was clearly not designed for it. It might be just fine in there over time, but its such an expensive situation Im not sure if I want to give it a try myself.

#5. Liqui Moly makes a moly additive called MOS 2009 which should help prevent chain/cam wear. This additive might be a good preventive measure

My conclusion is the best preventative maintenance is to utilize one of the suggested oils Amsoil or Shell, performed used oil analysis through Blackstone to figure out an exacting OCI and to use a moly additive. Pay special attention to CST values of the used oil analysis. You dont want that value getting under or shearing to 9.3 or below.

In regards to warranty the dealer never asked me what oil I put into the car. Thus is you simply "clam up" about such issues you might be fine. If you dont use Ford approved oils you might find yourself in a bind if you admit to using those oils. Thus be slick if you have to put it into the dealership for warranty work.

Keep in mind this post is just theory and not proven fact. My theory is shearing is causing the cam phasers to fail. The reason why Im getting so granular and looking into this so closely is because I really need this truck and I need it to keep working ...

Be sure to run an OEM Motorcraft filter! Many brands (some Ford engines too) prefer OEM filters. Ppl have reported quieter startup etc when switching bk to OEM from aftermarket. If your engine is well maintained /clean inside etc from consistent reg oil changes.. no need for pricey synthetic filters esp if you adhere to 5k mi OCI ..as i ALWAYS do. If high mis on engine use good brand high mileage full synthetic or semi-syn oil like Castrol magnatec high mileage or Pennzoil high mileage oil.

 

[DAVIDO49]

I have almost 100k worth of uoa on this engine with Castrol 0w40 if you are interested

Why 0w40 vs 0w30 ? Just curious. I use 5w30 (as recommended) in my '20 Ranger XLT FX4 w/ Gen2 - 2 3L TGDI. It purrs. Can't feel engine running at stop lites. Thought of 0w30 for winters mos here in Western Ohio but doesn't get cold much anymore for long these days. Prob not worth it. Current fill Is Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 w/Motorcraft 910-S filter.

 

[BeerCan]

Why 0w40 vs 0w30 ? Just curious. I use 5w30 (as recommended) in my '20 Ranger XLT FX4 w/ Gen2 - 2 3L TGDI. It purrs. Can't feel engine running at stop lites. Thought of 0w30 for winters mos here in Western Ohio but doesn't get cold much anymore for long these days. Prob not worth it. Current fill Is Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 w/Motorcraft 910-S filter.

0w40 was easier to get at walmart. Plus I towed heavy with this truck in the FL heat so I didn't mind using 40wt. difference between Castrol 30 and 40 is minimal anyway

 

[53' Stude]

Here is the Molybedium additive. I saw a UOA where a bottle was poured into a Honda Accord and the moly levels came in at 440 whereas when I look at regular oils its more like 50-100 levels. My understanding is moly helps with chain wear so this added to the Ecoboost oil can help or may help...

I think also that sometimes it settles on bottom of oil pan. Not certain but think other posters have saw that happen. I think if you use a API approved oil the timing chains will be ok. And change them when they are supposed to be changed. Just my thoughts

 

[SteveG4]

Any full synthetic 5W30 plus a name brand oil filter and don't go over 5000 miles on the OCI. You should be good to go. I would use QSUD.

One better ... here in Alaska, I've learned not to go over 3000 to 3500 miles between OCI's, especially over a typically cold winter.

BTW, Alaska vehicles sit outside in the weather, year-round. Our garage space is too valuable for a vehicle to sit in them. We "plug-in" if need be.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I think also that sometimes it settles on bottom of oil pan. Not certain but think other posters have saw that happen. I think if you use a API approved oil the timing chains will be ok. And change them when they are supposed to be changed. Just my thoughts

^^This.

 

[Trav]

I think also that sometimes it settles on bottom of oil pan. Not certain but think other posters have saw that happen. I think if you use a API approved oil the timing chains will be ok. And change them when they are supposed to be changed. Just my thoughts

This company makes many engine oils but is only using MoS2 in one and this is the description.

Semi-synthetic LIQUI MOLY specialty oil with an additive package containing Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2). The unique formulation adds a high pressure and temperature resistant lubricating layer to all friction surfaces for added wear protection and safety reserves. Reduced friction will contribute to lower oil temperatures, oil consumption and stable oil pressure. Particularly suited for older generation air- or water-cooled gasoline solid lifter engines, with or without turbochargers. The MoS2 formulation dictates the oils gray color.

Why don't they use it it all their oils if this stuff is so good? I have seen more negatives with this product than benefits, it was of some value in old air cooled beetles and old diesels but it does dropout of suspension, it can clog hydraulic lifters and VVT solenoids and ends up in the bottom of the pan as sludge. In modern engines it is snake oil.
For sure they keep peddling it even if they don't use it themselves, its a huge cash cow.

 

[OVERKILL]

This company makes many engine oils but is only using MoS2 in one and this is the description.



Why don't they use it it all their oils if this stuff is so good? I have seen more negatives with this product than benefits, it was of some value in old air cooled beetles and old diesels but it does dropout of suspension, it can clog hydraulic lifters and VVT solenoids and ends up in the bottom of the pan as sludge. In modern engines it is snake oil.
For sure they keep peddling it even if they don't use it themselves, its a huge cash cow.

Kind of like how Lucas doesn't pre-dose their PCMO's with their goop "Oil Stabilizer" eh?

 

[DAVIDO49]

0w40 was easier to get at walmart. Plus I towed heavy with this truck in the FL heat so I didn't mind using 40wt. difference between Castrol 30 and 40 is minimal anyway

Why use such a thin oil in FL heat or summer heat anywhere? What's wrong w/owners manuals stated viscosity oil? Engineering deliberates using many factors your not considering to achieve best overall viscosity ratings! Just change the oil by 5mis an use Motorcraft filters. Always use good brand full synthetic oil of course & ur golden! Don't re-engineer your truck. Keep it simple. Castrol is a good oil. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is far better. Keep truckin!

 

[DAVIDO49]

I have a solution for you - triple F rule: don't buy Ford, French and Fiat

That's completely idiotic. Triple fool rule. Guy was simply discussing ppl using wrong oils on Ford proven high tech Gen2 TGDI motors. All we run at our business! 34 trucks. We could buy cheaper! Ford trucks are most expensive out there. You truly get what you pay for sir. Why owner insists on these ? They don't break dwn an sit in shop like other brands we've tried. We use only 5w30 Motorcraft semi-synthetic & Motorcraft filters changed every 5k mis exactly. Don't ever push for long drain Interval in any DI turbo engine of any brand. We have a FT shop mechanic btw. He gets pd for oil changes & spark plugs/tranny fluid etc basically. He's not complaining. Try one ..i bet you quickly change your preconceived notions.