Thick or Thin,I'm confused?????

[Whimsey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Big John:
That being said,can I put the 10w40 in then or should I wait???? It starts to warm some in march and I would guess the average low is maybe 32f and day time highs in the mid 40's although it could be colder and snow,dag nabbit I lived here all my life and I'm guessing what the weather's gonna be!!!

Thanks one and all who have commented and please feel free to add your opinion....

[/QB]

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Put the RP 10W-40 in after you remove the 5w30 in March and run with confidence. Just do an UOA with the 5w30 and try to run the 10W-40 for a similar mileage and do an UOA on it. It sounds like you'll cover 2 seasons with each oil change so you should be good for comparable seasonal UOA'a. As others have said this engine "seems" to "like" slightly thicker oils. So you'll be fine. Take heart Spring is not too far off, only a snow storm or two away

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Whimsey

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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I wonder if the thicker oil didn't leave a thicker coating of oil on the engine parts so that it was better lubricated on startup?

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It just takes a longer for a thicker oil to run down and off parts. The additives left behind help reduce wear on startup.

Like Whimsey said, start with the recommended viscosity and go up and down the scale and see what fits via used oil analysis.

 

[haley10]

[ February 02, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]

 

[Whimsey]

quote:

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Originally posted by 1sttruck:
I've tried to be unbiased while formulating my current opinion, unlike the Trotskyites in the thin camp :^)

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Pray tell, how do you determine that the "thinner" or manufacture's recommended specs group or even open minded members of BITOG to be "Trotskyites"? While the "I don't care what the manufacture recommends" or no matter how good the used oil analysis using the said "thin" oil is, "thickerer is better always" group is fair and "open minded

.

This is a great site with lots of diverse opinion and facts. Let's not resort to nasty name calling. In case you didn't know from your commie professors, Trotsky, a fellow Bolshevik, was executed in 1940 in Mexico on the orders of Stalin, the darling of America's intelligentsia yesterday and today. If you're going to try to insult people for imposing their views on this site at least get it right and call us fascists

. A college education today is woefully lacking. The leftists teaching in colleges today can't even get their fellow leftists straight

Whimsey

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by mettech:


What we do know is:
1. Thin oil moves and lubs faster when cold.
2. Thin oil has (overall)a better oil base.
3. Thin oil should provide better MPG.
4. Thin oil cools the engine better.

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1. MRV and CCS data
2. Does this apply to M1 synthetics
3. All these are Starburst oils
4. All these are Starburst oils

Might ring wear etc. be a larger factor at temps. above 0F?

[ February 02, 2005, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]

 

[AEHaas]

quote:

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Originally posted by haley10:
I don't believe AEHaas responded to my question as to why the uoa data we have seems to show that the LS1 and LT1 seem to show better wear #'s with GC 0w30 and next Mobil 1 0W-40. Perhaps ring wear would be an issue with 0W-20?
Uoa data suggest GC 0w30 to be excellent in the LS1.

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I do not know.

aehaas

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by mettech:
What we do know is:
Thin oil moves and lubs faster when cold.
Thin oil has (overall)a better oil base.
Thin oil should provide better MPG.
Thin oil cools the engine better.

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We do?

Thin oil moves and lubs faster when cold.
How cold is cold? -20C? 0C? 40C?

Thin oil has (overall)a better oil base.
MC/PenZ/Chevron/Halv/etc 5w20 has better base oil than Mobil 1 10w30/Red Line 10w30/GC 0w30/etc?

Thin oil should provide better MPG.
Operative word is should. I can show you peer reviewed studies where it doesn't.

Thin oil cools the engine better.
Up until the point all the thin oil is squeezed out and you're relying strictly on boundary lubrication.

The viscosity of the oil has to meet the requirements of the engine. As a famous oil guru once said, it's like matching a shoe to a foot. Too big and your foot flops around and you get blisters. To tight and your feet hurt.

 

[1sttruck]

Jelly said: "....it's hard to ignore used oil analysis results which show they work exceptionally well in the applications they're recommended for, regardless if it was a CAFE induced decision or not..."

Using used oil analysis to determine wear is the subject of some other threads. A used oil analysis is not a substitute for methods that measure wear, which includes mass loss, dimensional variation, surface finish variation, and such. Metals in oil does not appear to be a reliable correlation with wear, which is why qualifying new formulations takes a long time due to field trials and wear measurements. Trending metals in used oil analysis seems to be a good practice for trying to pick up changes in an engine.

So far we don't seem to see noticeable changes in reported durability when lighter oils are used, but if you're trying to get as much life as possible out of an engine that used hard it seems that thicker oils are what is recommended.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whimsey:
This is a great site with lots of diverse opinion and facts. Let's not resort to nasty name calling. In case you didn't know from your commie professors, Trotsky, a fellow Bolshevik, was executed in 1940 in Mexico on the orders of Stalin, the darling of America's intelligentsia yesterday and today. If you're going to try to insult people for imposing their views on this site at least get it right and call us fascists

. A college education today is woefully lacking. The leftists teaching in colleges today can't even get their fellow leftists straight

Whimsey

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Apparently my slacker Austin friends are at least well educated. They correctly call me a fascist on a regular basis.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
"thick" or "thin" are relative human terms.

You need to use an oil appropriate for your engine, and driving conditions and OCI's and etc. If you don't have direct linkage to a true lubrication expert, or if you yourself don't have a lube related degree and/or years of relevant experience defaulting to the manufacturers advice is not a BAD thing.

Sometimes it comes across that way in these chats and we try to super fine tune some combo. I say stay here and learn for awhile.

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By the way, I vote this, quote of the month.

 

[jbas]

Easy men: try a 25 or less in your sleep number bed.

thick or thin?

hot dog thick
women thin
football players thick
putting green thin
veg soup thick
thermo-gloves thin
cushions thick
motor oil ???

 

[1sttruck]

Whimsey said: This is a great site with lots of diverse opinion and facts. Let's not resort to nasty name calling. In case you didn't know from your commie professors, Trotsky, a fellow Bolshevik, was executed in 1940 in Mexico on the orders of Stalin, the darling of America's intelligentsia yesterday and today. If you're going to try to insult people for imposing their views on this site at least get it right and call us fascists . A college education today is woefully lacking. The leftists teaching in colleges today can't even get their fellow leftists straight"

Stalin is the darling of America's intelligentsia ? William Buckley is a Stalinist ?

Since thin seems to be a minority camp among the oil users of the world, Trotsky seemed to be a better model.


Note to self, "do not make flip statements or attemt to use humor in thin oil threads".

 

[Steve S]

Originally posted by jbas:
[QB]

Easy men: try a 25 or less in your sleep number bed.

thick or thin?

hot dog thick
women thin
football players thick
putting green thin
veg soup thick
thermo-gloves thin
cushions thick
motor oil WHAT SEEMS TO WORK BEST IN YOUR ENGINE.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Since thin seems to be a minority camp among the oil users of the world,

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I don't necessarily disagree with you ..but I think if you tabbed up car for car ..diesel truck for diesel truck (hard to do with most other nations having a REAL rail system that they use the way one should) ...the scale would probably tip our way. Japan, during the Reagan administration where they wholesale raided our markets ..only consumed 1/5 of our energy at their 100% industrial production.


Anyone know the size of our national fleet?? If it's like the rest of our consumption numbers ..the rest of the world may match it combined.

quote:

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Note to self, "do not make flip statements or attemt to use humor in thin oil threads".

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seek out a more diverse set of gremlins for self expression. If you just blindly

then someone will probably

when all you're doing is being a

(words of the infamous Rodney King) Why can't we

 

[427Z06]

Thanks Gary, you are a

and

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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Originally posted by krholm:
I'm still waiting for a convincing case to be made in favor of "...thinner is better". My personal experience .....

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Samples of one aren't statistically significant.

The largest purveyor and manufacturer, ExxonMobil, has years of track and field testing demonstrating that SAE grade 20W probably is almost anyone needs in normal passenger car use. That's why its initial product three decades ago was a 5W-20.

There are some exceptions: extreme high heat, extreme speed, extreme loads. Frankly, very few people meet any of these exceptions.

The fact that this is true seems to have had little effect on consumer tastes, and Exxon Mobil offers synthetic motor oils in 10W-40, 15W-50, and 20W-50 since it is, after all, your engine. They only want your money, not your love.

As anecdotal evidence, if samples of one are the topic, several years ago I owned a VW FWD vehicle with the 1.8 liter four. The dealer used 10W-40 Castrol, while I used 5w30 Mobil 1. When I got rid of it, still running fine, with 200k+ miles on it it was still using 5w30 Mobil 1. This included a number of long desert runs at 100F and higher at very high sustained speeds.

But the dealer kept on using Castrol 10W-40.


.

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

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The viscosity of the oil has to meet the requirements of the engine

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This statment is not as clear-cut as it seems.

We have not only seen a wide range of viscs suggested on owners' manuals, but also differing viscs in different parts of the World. This does not seem like a fine-tuned application. Remember, 30 weight cars have been going around fine on sheared-out 20 wt range oil.
Here is another point that makes is clear or less clear or whatever... Euro cars typically run around on 40 weight oils. Porsche has always incorporated HDEO applications into their oil specs, I assume VW has historicly done the same. Ok, let's assume (for the sake of argument) 40wt is the rule for Euro cars. Why then is, for instance, Audi able to make the switch to a product like SLX II with LOW HTHS
[ February 02, 2005, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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Why then is, for instance, Audi able to make the switch to a product like SLX II with LOW HTHS

They can do it because the lubrication system and cams have been designed to be used with low HTHS oil. Don't forget, they also use an oil monitoring system and flexible service interval when on the "thin" oil diet. The question is how this effects longevity of the engine. I do know that it has become practically impossible to sell a modern diesel engine that has over 200k km on it in Europe. 20 years ago, nobody would have give it a second thought, because 200k km was nothing for a diesel motor; now it's a lot. I do not believe that the latest engine designs are better in terms of longevity than previous designs. My belief is only reinforced by what I hear about engine component failure in modern Euro cars.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Roller rockers are the only necessary VSI equip I am aware of except the actual monitor and algorythums. I wonder...don't we have roller rokers already? I mean, SLX II is about a 3 HT/HS rating, no biggie even for a normal engine. Right?

 

[BatmanLS1]

LS1's like GC or some 0W-40...which is on the thicker side I believe.