Thick oil and filter media damage

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Is there a surge in oil pressure at start in very cold temps? Especially with thicker oils. The oil filter is the first place the oil travels from the oil pump(is that right).

What's a "thicker oil," though? In the temperatures we've had the last couple days, a 0w-XX is starting thicker than any monograde at room temperature. If an oil filter manufacturer cannot build a filter whose media will remain intact during ordinary winter days, then it's time to move onto producing something else.

 

[jongies3]

Poor filter design is to blame here. A quality filter has a bypass valve that will open if pressure is too high. The filter on my diesel Kubota tractor cross references to vehicles requiring 0W-20 all the way up to heavy equipment running on 15w40 or monogrades such as my tractor. Filters are made for oil, regardless of what the weight is. I use a Fram Ultra on it, however, no need worry about media failures at all!

 

[MParr]

Interesting take. I guess it could be possible, especially if running say 15W40 or 20W50. I wonder if priming the oil filter before installation would prevent some of the media tearing we have seen?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jongies3
Poor filter design is to blame here. A quality filter has a bypass valve that will open if pressure is too high. The filter on my diesel Kubota tractor cross references to vehicles requiring 0W-20 all the way up to heavy equipment running on 15w40 or monogrades such as my tractor. Filters are made for oil, regardless of what the weight is.

That's a very valid point. The filters that fit my G37 also fit other equipment using a wide range of viscosities, too.

 

[Linctex]

Some Fleetguard filters advertise crush strength of 80 PSI.

Is that 80 psi delta-p?

 

[Linctex]

http://www.baldwinfilter.com/literature/english/8 Service Engineering Bulletins/97-10.pdf

Originally Posted By: Baldwin
For example, the BD103 now has a collapse strength of 295 psi as compared to 226 psi for the
LF3000. The BD103 collapse pressure is now nearly 3 times that of the bypass valve opening pressure

 

[MParr]

Have any of you seen this? This is from the Club Lexus site. This post comes from a former 40 year employee of Purolator.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-1st-...-purolator.html

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
If thick oil caused media tearing, there'd be the same issue during a WOT run at operating temps.


Apples and oranges. I ask about cold starts, not hot oil WOT runs.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Quality control at PUROLATOR as I’ve cut and posted, witnessed is job # 0 that is ZERO. Why I would not use Motorcraft filters at all even if paid to

Not interested in in what you pay for.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: MParr
Have any of you seen this? This is from the Club Lexus site. This post comes from a former 40 year employee of Purolator.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-1st-...-purolator.html


Yes, we have.

Unfortunately, the original poster made that entire post up.... sad.

He "trolled" the same story here awhile back (several months ago)

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: tig1
I see media damage from some filters here from time to time. Was wondering if oil thicker than recommended by the engine builders could cause media damage as the oil pump is forcing oil through the filter?


No, in the past I have seen oil filters last just fine handling 20W-50 oil and 80-100 psi. No tears in any, other than a Fram from the 80's

I am VERY surprised at the tearing media epidemic we have seen the last couple years!


Quality control at PUROLATOR as I’ve cut and posted, witnessed is job # 0 that is ZERO. Why I would not use Motorcraft filters at all even if paid to

Not interested in in what you pay for.


Don’t care, if you read post I SAID I would NOT run purolator, or Motorcraft if someone paid me to!!!

 

[MParr]

Oh really! Why in the world would someone do something like that? Looking a little closer, I see some things that are a bit out of whack.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: MParr
Have any of you seen this? This is from the Club Lexus site. This post comes from a former 40 year employee of Purolator.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-1st-...-purolator.html


Yes, we have.

Unfortunately, the original poster made that entire post up.... sad.

He "trolled" the same story here awhile back (several months ago)


Yep, super troll ... but a few members sniffed him out because not everything added up in his "story".

 

[4wd]

He lost me on that “pleater” …
…can have the finest one of those in the world but that filter media is still weakest in the sector …
Maybe they should merge with Frantz since the paper is so close already and forget the pleats …

 

[4wd]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Any filter that fails from a delta-p equal to the filter's bypass valve setting or less needs to be sent back to the drawing board.

Only thing a thicker oil or a higher volume oil pump should do is cause the filter's bypass to open sooner.

Also, it's possible that a bad bypass valve (design or functionality in use) could be a factor by not opening at the right delta-p. Or the size of the bypass valve flow area is under sized and can't handle a large bypass flow spike causing a short high delta-p spike across the media. If the media is brittle and weak, a short instantaneous delta-p spike could cause tearing.

Bottom line is the bypass valve's main purpose is to save the filter from damage due to oil flow delta-p, and the guts of the filter better be able to take that delta-p all day long if needed.


Thinking back when I still used MC filters … seemed they had some low pressure bypass settings? And it was stated here that the PRV setting was increased in some?

 

[deven]

When one holds a quart of 5w30 and 20w50, does one feel heavier than the other? Nope, at least not for me. We need to go back to Oil 101 and realize that the "W" rating is for winter and not for weight.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: deven
When one holds a quart of 5w30 and 20w50, does one feel heavier than the other? Nope, at least not for me. We need to go back to Oil 101 and realize that the "W" rating is for winter and not for weight.

It is unfortunate that they use numbers for the "W" rating, that always comes up as an issue. I've thought it would be better if the rating was a letter or something, kind of like what they use for tires. People always come on here saying it is a "0" weight when cold and a "30" weight when hot (or whatever the numbers may be). Either that or they say the formulation starts with a 0 weight and they add plastic to get to a 30.

 

[irv]

A good, simple explanation.
http://knowhow.napaonline.com/understanding-oil-weight-numbers-bottle-mean/

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: irv
A good, simple explanation.
http://knowhow.napaonline.com/understanding-oil-weight-numbers-bottle-mean/

It is not correct, and only continues the misconceptions about what the W rating actually means.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: deven
When one holds a quart of 5w30 and 20w50, does one feel heavier than the other? Nope, at least not for me. We need to go back to Oil 101 and realize that the "W" rating is for winter and not for weight.

It is unfortunate that they use numbers for the "W" rating, that always comes up as an issue. I've thought it would be better if the rating was a letter or something, kind of like what they use for tires. People always come on here saying it is a "0" weight when cold and a "30" weight when hot (or whatever the numbers may be). Either that or they say the formulation starts with a 0 weight and they add plastic to get to a 30.


Not confusing if you keep in mind at what temperature those viscosity numbers are associated with. Just a way to grade cold and hot viscosity and compare to other oils with with the same marking convention. Cold oil is always going to be more viscous than hot oil no matter what the Xw-Y rating is.