The World and salting roads

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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If you got rid of salt and required use of snow tires problem solved.


How many winters have you spent in the Midwest? I'm guessing none.
They might be great on snow, but snow tires aren't any better than other tires when the road is a complete sheet of ice, which we have here quite often. And when I say bad ice, there are winters here where the ice accumulation will break power lines or the electrical line poles. BTW, I hate road salt or the new brine solution just as bad as anybody, but I will admit it will usually keep the ice off of the highway.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
They throw so much rock salt down around here when it snows that in intersections it accumulates into piles several inches deep as it gets cast aside by movement of traffic through it. You happen to drive through one of the piles you can hear gobs of the stuff wisking up into the fender wells and richocheting off suspension components. It's patently ridiculous.


Spoken like a possible fellow Wisconsinite.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If you got rid of salt and required use of snow tires problem solved.


Snow tires have limited effectiveness on ice. Snow tires are mandatory here but still use tons of salt. People just drive too fast..
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If you got rid of salt and required use of snow tires problem solved.


It's not that easy. Most of the danger doesn't come from snow but from ice. Even studded snow tires are fairly useless on ice for stopping/turning. All-seasons are completely useless, so some marginal degree of control is better than none at all. Snow turns into ice pretty rapidly under the right conditions. That also tends to happen on off-ramps or in the middle of turns, places that need good traction to slow or turn.

Using a different de-icer that was less corrosive would solve a bunch of issues. And likely save some money for the state. But then we'd have folks yelling about NYS DOT "spending a fortune" on de-icer while ignoring the savings in equipment costs and not having their car corroded to junk in 10 years.
 
Well and in the city where you get really cold days the condensation from exhaust pipes stuck at traffic lights helps make them the centers of the icy world. It's a trip having decent driving pavement then all-of-a-sudden ice just where you need to stop/ turn.
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Ben Boyle
I note that most of the people in this thread who say there should be no salting of the roads don't lives in locales that really have the weather that warrant it.

Yes, Europe uses salt.
This page shows a car in Germany covered in salt.


Using salt on roads should be a crime.
 
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If you got rid of salt and required use of snow tires problem solved.


How many winters have you spent in the Midwest? I'm guessing none.
They might be great on snow, but snow tires aren't any better than other tires when the road is a complete sheet of ice, which we have here quite often. And when I say bad ice, there are winters here where the ice accumulation will break power lines or the electrical line poles. BTW, I hate road salt or the new brine solution just as bad as anybody, but I will admit it will usually keep the ice off of the highway.


I would happily buy a set of studded snows to not have the roads salted!
 
I'd gladly support less salt if we mandated snow tires (or deep snow rated all-season tires) in upstate NY from December 1st to March 31st. That wouldn't fly either.
 
I think salt is probably still necessary, but they should use much less of it. In areas prone to icing over, salt those areas. Otherwise use the other solution.

I don't see why everyone doesn't just have a winter beater.

My car is obviously rust free. It's from Arizona. It looks like brand new underneath. Cost me $2100. If someone lived in New York, it would cost $150 in gas to drive it back.

I can't see why anyone would drive their $30k+ car in the salty winter, only to be eaten up by rust. Let the beater get as rusty as it wants, then in 7-10 years sell it and buy another $2000 desert car.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
If you got rid of salt and required use of snow tires problem solved.


How many winters have you spent in the Midwest? I'm guessing none.
They might be great on snow, but snow tires aren't any better than other tires when the road is a complete sheet of ice, which we have here quite often. And when I say bad ice, there are winters here where the ice accumulation will break power lines or the electrical line poles. BTW, I hate road salt or the new brine solution just as bad as anybody, but I will admit it will usually keep the ice off of the highway.


I would happily buy a set of studded snows to not have the roads salted!


I could probably agree with that. However, it seems that our legislators feel that studded tires tear up the highways. It used to be that studded tires had to be off of cars by a certain date. IIRC, some states even outlawed them completely.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I can't see why anyone would drive their $30k+ car in the salty winter, only to be eaten up by rust. Let the beater get as rusty as it wants, then in 7-10 years sell it and buy another $2000 desert car.


I guess they do it because they can afford it. Being in the northeast I start out with a nice used, low mileage car costing $9K or less. It would not be cost effective to have another beater costing me $3K-$4K in additional insurance/fees over those 7-10 years. Then factor in the maintenance costs of keeping that beater running. For 75% of the population who don't or can't work on their own cars, the 2nd beater could be a more costly option.
 
In regards to winter beaters. The very definition of winter beaters if they're beat. Do you want to be stranded when it's -20 outside in a rural area? That is why my wife drives a new Buick Verano.
 
Doesn't rust preventers and those kind of asphalt underbody coats work to keep a car in salty roads? Here you only see salt by the sea, but did Ziebarted my cars in the past.
 
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I have had my personal vehicles done with Auto Armor rust preventative and Auto Armor paint protection when I buy them brand new for all of this century. I hardly ever have rust issues with them anymore, and they don't get washed nearly as frequently as folks in town do theirs. I would much prefer they back off the amount of de-icing they do on roads. It seems to be overkill at times.
 
We don't use salt on New Zealand roads, they might use some sort of grit maybe. There is often snow in the South Island and central North Island, snow dumps a few times in winter, but it's not a huge problem....although I don't live in those areas so don't know if getting stuck in the snow would upset my day.

Salt air causes rust in cars here, those from the South Island (where it snows) are in far better condition than those in the North Island, and cars in Auckland rust far more than any other parts of the country, it being a narrow area between the Tasman Sea and Pacific Ocean. I lived on an island off shore from Auckland and cars were very prone to rust, motorcycles too - from the salt air (licking my house windows, they tasted of salt), but also the gravel roads, the local stone was high in manganese, and motorcycle engines, hubs and rims would corode.
 
No salt here. On the few days of the year it snows, people generally just slow down. Those who don't, get acquainted with their local tow truck driver.

Pretty much everywhere in Tasmania is a coastal area, however the cars don't suffer too much. It's very rare to see a rusty vehicle. Anything less than 20 years old won't be rusty, unless it's been used to back a boat into the water, or it's done lots of beach driving.
 
Around here, toward the end of the winter if there's money remaining in the budget they'll salt the roads in anticipation of a snow event. Many times we'll get a fraction of an inch of snow, or no snow and have the salt down, a complete and total waste of money and time.

Today's weather is looking good I'll be rustproofing my Jeep again. Until I move to a warmer climate that's the best I can do.
 
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