The Powerful Japanese V6

[1sttruck]

"Maybe the fallout from the A-bombs dropped on Japan somehow made it's way to detroit and affected the US auto industry after the war."

http://www.honoringhomer.net/

http://deming.eng.clemson.edu/pub/den/files/lesson.txt

A LESSON LEARNED AND A LESSON FORGOTTEN

Nearly a half-century ago, General MacArthur ordered Homer Sarasohn to tell Japanese businessmen how things were done. The Japanese listened, but the U.S. forgot.

By Robert Chapman Wood

"WHAT THE JAPANESE learned about management after World War II, they learned from the Americans. And the Americans forgot their own lessons."

 

[i30krab]

Being the dutiful moderator that you are, where do you get time to dream up this stuff?

Sorry, I forgot "if the gloves don't fit, you gotta acquit"

 

[levi]

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Actually the GM 3.9 pushrod V6 motor takes the place of the old 3.8 and it makes 250hp and the same torque and is the first pushrod to have VVT.

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Is the 3.9 a slightly bored or stroked 3.8? If not, is it related to any other GM engine family? I've wondered about this since they came out with it.

 

[JHZR2]

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Being the dutiful moderator that you are, where do you get time to dream up this stuff?

Sorry, I forgot "if the gloves don't fit, you gotta acquit"

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Last I checked, as a dutiful citizen I can have my opinions and considerations and worries about the idiotic, horrid financial condition of the average citizen, and the freedom to analyze why they are in such poor financial shape (loans everywhere, credit card debt, etc.). I wonder if something that takes $300+/month out of their pockets, plus insurance, fuel, upkeep, etc. has something to do with it??!?!?!?

Many folks would be much better off if they lived within their means, instead of trying to show off with overpowered luxury-ish cars.

JMH

 

[1sttruck]

"..Further, the ability to make this much power and obtain that much speed just induces wastefulness in a group of buyers..."

A comment that points out one of my regular rants, which is the mob with torches and pitch forks running thru villages all over the country, yelling to burn the monster trucks and SUVs because they are so wasteful, and after the fires die out they drive home in their sporty cars that sometimes get no better or worse mileage, at least when driven as advertised.

 

[Jeremiah]

First of all, you're making an awful lot of #@$%!-poor assumptions about someone owning a Lexus. Are there SOME Lexus owners that are over-extended on their credit? Sure.

It seems to me that a Lexus IS series is a FAR more sensible choice given it's pedigree, longevity and extreme value. You're only going to be able to name one or two (if any) vehicles in that price range that give you the same list of amenities, and it's reputation with JD Power... if you have to include it's resale value, there's nothing that can touch it. It's keeping up with Corvette's, BMW's and Mercedes with much higher sticker prices. Lexus has been named "best value", "most dependable" and "best new car" more than any other manufacturer. JD Powers also found Lexus owners "the most satisfied after the sale" for 15 years IN A ROW. My point is - I think you're picking on the wrong car here. You can purchase a Lexus for 1/2 the price of a corvette, or other luxury sports cars.

 

[i30krab]

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First of all, you're making an awful lot of #@$%!-poor assumptions about someone owning a Lexus. Are there SOME Lexus owners that are over-extended on their credit? Sure.



It seems to me that a Lexus IS series is a FAR more sensible choice given it's pedigree, longevity and extreme value. You're only going to be able to name one or two (if any) vehicles in that price range that give you the same list of amenities, and it's reputation with JD Power... if you have to include it's resale value, there's nothing that can touch it. It's keeping up with Corvette's, BMW's and Mercedes with much higher sticker prices. Lexus has been named "best value", "most dependable" and "best new car" more than any other manufacturer. JD Powers also found Lexus owners "the most satisfied after the sale" for 15 years IN A ROW. My point is - I think you're picking on the wrong car here. You can purchase a Lexus for 1/2 the price of a corvette, or other luxury sports cars.

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I coudn't have said it better!! But we must respect the opinions of everyone!

 

[rpn453]

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Further, the ability to make this much power and obtain that much speed just induces wastefulness in a group of buyers who are tryng very hard to show off, purchasing (actually financing or leasing because they cant afford to actually purchase) cars with a fancy nameplate to do their best to convey an image that they can't afford to do with the 'real thing'.

Doesnt matter who the manufacturer is... its terribly wasteful behavior, and is yet another reason why the country is going down the tubes economically.

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Dang, you sound bitter today! I can understand not liking a car, but blaming it for societies ills seems a little extreme; especially when it gets a not-terrible 21/28 mpg. If you want to take a dig at wastefulness, there's fruit that hangs much lower than that: mansions, private jets (or any excessive air travel), expensive sports cars, large SUVs, government excess, expensive jewelry, etc. Get those things sorted out and then we can go after the evil Lexus owners!

 

[eddiehaskell]

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Yes, it runs mid 13s in the quarter. No bull****, I saw it with my own two eyes many times... That's corvette/fbody territory in a 3400+lb v6 sedan!

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That is slower than a 10 year old Corvette/Fbody.

Still not bad though.

 

[Jeremiah]

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That is slower than a 10 year old Corvette/Fbody.

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It's not THAT much slower than a modern Corvette, and with the optional all-wheel-drive, it'll probably be comparable (if not better handling) in the twisties. It will DEFINITELY be fore comfortable to drive while maintaining sporty characteristics.

And... it won't have as good of resale value, safety, reliability, high gas mileage, ultra low pollution rating, or this impressive list of amenities:
http://www.internetautoguide.com/car-specifications/09-int/2006/lexus/is350/index.html

In my opinion the IS350 wipes the floor with the corvette... who only marginally wins in the 1/4 mile, but looses in every other category.

The Japanese are still beating the pants off domestics. Toyota and Nissan have the best sporty / reasonably priced V6's on the market. Suzuki's V6 may not be very sophisticated, but it's is ULTRA light and reliable. If they learn to build a better body'd vehicle - they're going to surpass American manufacturers too. The Koreans aren't very far behind either.

 

[eddiehaskell]

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It's not THAT much slower than a modern Corvette, and with the optional all-wheel-drive, it'll probably be comparable (if not better handling) in the twisties. It will DEFINITELY be fore comfortable to drive while maintaining sporty characteristics.

And... it won't have as good of resale value, safety, reliability, high gas mileage, ultra low pollution rating, or this impressive list of amenities:
http://www.internetautoguide.com/car-specifications/09-int/2006/lexus/is350/index.html

In my opinion the IS350 wipes the floor with the corvette... who only marginally wins in the 1/4 mile, but looses in every other category.

The Japanese are still beating the pants off domestics. Toyota and Nissan have the best sporty / reasonably priced V6's on the market. Suzuki's V6 may not be very sophisticated, but it's is ULTRA light and reliable. If they learn to build a better body'd vehicle - they're going to surpass American manufacturers too. The Koreans aren't very far behind either.

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You haven't got a clue about what you're speaking of.

That much is obvious.

First of all, the '05-'07 Corvettes have 400hp/400lb-ft and they are 3200lbs. Do you honestly believe the Lexus has a shot in a straight line? The '97 Corvette was 3250 lbs with 350hp - the Lexus may be a little closer there, but it's still slower.

Second, a Corvette will annihilate the Lexus in the twisties. You may not know this, but the Corvette has ran under 8 minutes at Nurburgring!!!!!! Needless to say, only some of the best sports cars in the world can do that.

Additionally, here is the results from Car and Driver's lightning lap at VIR:

Ford GT, 3:00.7
Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 3:01.1
Dodge Viper SRT-10 Coupe, 3:01.6
Lotus Elise (US spec), 3:09.2
Chevrolet Corvette C6, 3:09.3

Porsche Cayman S, 3:09.5
BMW M6, 3:10.0
Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, 3:11.0
Nissan 350Z Track, 3:12.5
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX MR, 3:13.5
Dodge Charger SRT-8, 3:18.2
Mazda RX-8, 3:19.0
Chevrolet Cobalt SS, 3:20.6
Ford Mustang GT, 3:20.9
Volkswagen GTI, 3:25.1
Honda Civic Si, 3:26.5
Mazda MX-5, 3:29.3

So, do you honestly believe the Lexus has a chance in #@$%! against a Cayman S, Corvette, Elise, M6, GT500 etc? If so, I'd like to have some of what you're smoking because it's very potent!!

BTW - AWD does NOT equal better handling.

Another thing, who gives a rat's *** about ubber gas mileage, emissions and safety when buying a sports car?????? You don't buy a sports car if that is your goal - DUH. Also, sorry to burst your buuble, but the Corvette has a higher resale value than the IS.

Obviously, the Corvette is on a different planet when it comes to performance. The cars are NO WHERE near being competitors so comparing features and "amenitites" is just plain dumb!

A few more points:

1. Suzuki's V6 used in the XL-7 IS A GM ENGINE!!!!! Suzuki and GM have a good relationship and GM even owns a small part of Suzuki.

2. What does Toyota have that is sporty? Nothing!!! Toyota's are about as exciting as grandpa's sunday shoes. The IS is decently quick, but it's still a 4-door luxury cruiser.

Now when you stop talking from your hind parts we can have a reasonable discussion.

 

[Kernel Potter]

Keep in mind Eddiehaskell, the Lexus IS350 is NOT available with AWD. The IS250 is available with AWD as an option with its whopping 204hp and boat-like 3650 pounds. I'd bet that the Leexus IS250 AWD would be dead last on the test at MIR(which I had already read in C&D before.)

On second thought it might give the Miata a run for its money. If you're looking for a good track/handling car and want to keep bundle of cash in the bank, get the Chevy Cobalt and skip the AWD Lexus.

 

[i30krab]

eddiehaskell (Quote)
"Obviously, the Corvette is on a different planet when it comes to performance. The cars are NO WHERE near being competitors so comparing features and "amenitites" is just plain dumb!"

A little reality check here.
When I attended the Motor Trend (I think it was motor trend) right after SEMA here in Las Vegas, I saw a beautiful Corvette Z06 that had a sticker price of around $73000.00.
I spent a good 30 minutes checking the entire car and I was amazed GM used such low quality wiring, hoses, harnesses, belts and other misc stuff under the hood.
I asked the GM factory rep about this and instead of chastising me about my observations he replied "I know, how do you think we can keep the price of the car low enough to be affordable and cost 1/2 the price of some of the cars it competes against!
Just my observation and factory answer.

When I search out the above items for my car believe me they would be of higher quality than what I saw in the Corvette.

 

[LouDawg]

Gotta put in a plug for the Accord V6. It's not a sports car, and it's not a luxury car, and it won't beat the Elise in the 1/4. But at 244 hp (at 6250) and 211 ft-lbs (at 5000), the 3.0L V6 is more than adequate for me and for probably most other average Joes. I've run 6.1, 6.2 in the 0-60, but I don't normally race it like that.

It does everything pretty darn well, has plenty of room inside, handles pretty well for a FWD/AT, is *silky* smooth, and I still average 28 mpg highway. And I didn't have to break the bank to buy it. It'll last as long as most anything else out there, and if I do decide to sell it later on, it has excellent resale value. Plus it's inexpensive to insure.

Not trying to tell anyone that it's "better than your car", just tooting the Accord horn a little bit. Powerful Japanese V6? I don't know...maybe. Powerfully good combination of quality, value, and performance? Definitely.

 

[brianl703]

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Doesnt matter who the manufacturer is... its terribly wasteful behavior, and is yet another reason why the country is going down the tubes economically.

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The government would like to remind you that home equity loans and cash-out refinancing can be used to purchase new cars. Please do your part--the housing bubble needs you and you need the housing bubble.

 

[Colby]

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Wonderful... In a car that has so little useful interior space that for as nice as it is, I might as well buy a miata and have a car that is more fun to drive. We sat in the IS at the auto show, and it disgusted me that as nice as it was, and bit as it was on the outside, the interior dimentions were lousy.

Further, the ability to make this much power and obtain that much speed just induces wastefulness in a group of buyers who are tryng very hard to show off, purchasing (actually financing or leasing because they cant afford to actually purchase) cars with a fancy nameplate to do their best to convey an image that they can't afford to do with the 'real thing'.

Doesnt matter who the manufacturer is... its terribly wasteful behavior, and is yet another reason why the country is going down the tubes economically.

flame suit on...

JMH

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You seem to be a little confused; the IS350 is in the compact/small car category. In this class/category you will find the BMW 3 Series, G35, Acura TL, etc. In this class you will find that the IS has an average size interior. What you see as a waste or some fancy name plate is, in actuality, is the most reliable, has the best service satisfaction and has the most vehicle appeal of any car made, for the last two years.

Colby

 

[Colby]

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Keep in mind Eddiehaskell, the Lexus IS350 is NOT available with AWD. The IS250 is available with AWD as an option with its whopping 204hp and boat-like 3650 pounds. I'd bet that the Leexus IS250 AWD would be dead last on the test at MIR(which I had already read in C&D before.)

On second thought it might give the Miata a run for its money. If you're looking for a good track/handling car and want to keep bundle of cash in the bank, get the Chevy Cobalt and skip the AWD Lexus.

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The AWD IS250 was designed to be used in bad weather for the average driver that doesn't need/want 300+ HP. Right now the average car has approx 200 HP. To take the lowest performance base model and put it on the race track, is just unfair. By the way the IS250 out sells the IS350 almost 2 to 1, so the performance of the 250 is very acceptable to the average consumer.

Colby

 

[Kernel Potter]

Hate to break it to you Colby but in this discussion it is fair after Jeremiah enlightened us how a IS350 will mop up a Corvette in all performance categories except "marginally" in acceleration. Even though AWD isn't even available on the 306hp IS', it was part of the argument.

And like so many people these days with marketing perceptions shoved up their rears, it was time to show the reality. Once reality is put in plain view, the story is AWD is for bad weather and not performance.