The Passion of The Christ
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Did you see the NBC special with Stone Phillips? They had 3 historians on who really did a nice job. The one woman flat out said so much of it is pure speculation. The last days of Jesus is very hard to grasp, factually, based on what we know of history. They all agreed though that it was the Romans, and only a hand full of Jews who didn't represent the majority of Jewish beliefs that Jesus should die, that wanted him dead.
It's not anti-semitic, but Jesus was "condemed" by the Jewish clergy.....
The whole anti-semtic thing is the usual. Our press has this thing with Christianity. Just ignore our press, see the movie or not, as you see fit.
The whole anti-semtic thing is the usual. Our press has this thing with Christianity. Just ignore our press, see the movie or not, as you see fit.
I don't believe the Romans had much of a hand in this. This was not a Roman city, it was a Jewish city which was under Roman domination, and only Rome could crucify people at that time. The Sanhedrin wanted Jesus dead, but they could not carry it out. The setting is durring the Passover. I don't think the Roman soldiers, who were there to keep order and protect Pilot who happened to be in town, had any issue with Jesus or who he claimed to be.
I can't believe how much uproar there has been over this film. It is just a movie about the execution of Jesus. People who have seen the movie say that it is pretty bloody, and maybe unsuitable for children, but historically accurate. Let us be able to see the movie and make up our own minds.
I am getting very tired of the Rabbis who are running around trying to tell me how to think. Certainly the Jewish priesthood wanted Jesus dead-his new religious beliefs were considered a threat. A thief was picked instead of Jesus and allowed to live. The Roman governor was probably expecting Jesus to be picked to live instead of the thief. The Romans were no saints but they were under pressure from the Jewish priesthood. Just like American forces in Iraq are under pressure from various elements in the Iraqi population today.
I am not anti-Jewish. I really do not expect this film to create a new army of Neo-Nazis. Let me wath the film and make up my own mind.
I am getting very tired of the Rabbis who are running around trying to tell me how to think. Certainly the Jewish priesthood wanted Jesus dead-his new religious beliefs were considered a threat. A thief was picked instead of Jesus and allowed to live. The Roman governor was probably expecting Jesus to be picked to live instead of the thief. The Romans were no saints but they were under pressure from the Jewish priesthood. Just like American forces in Iraq are under pressure from various elements in the Iraqi population today.
I am not anti-Jewish. I really do not expect this film to create a new army of Neo-Nazis. Let me wath the film and make up my own mind.
Just another thought. There was another film a while back that put down Jesus and Christianity. I did not go to see this film. There was no big uproar over that film. Apparently it is okay to make a movie putting down a religion as long as the religion you decide to put down is Chrisitianity.
One of these days Christians might get weary of being stepped on.
One of these days Christians might get weary of being stepped on.
I sure hope not!
Remember, Jesus said that if they hated Him, they'd hate us (his followers) too. And the disciple is not greater than his master.
The scriptures are pretty clear. As a Christian, you should expect to be reviled by those who do not follow Jesus. If for no other reason because you claim there is only one way to the Father - just like Jesus claimed!
Tim
It behooves us all to remember that this is a for profit endeaver, made by a religious bigot. His father is one of those that believes that the holocast stories are over blown. Mel Gibson made this movie for money and all this BS is better advertisment then he could buy.
"People who have seen the movie say that it is pretty bloody, and maybe unsuitable for children, but historically accurate."
By what standard? Even the bible is confused as to who carried the cross to the hill.
[ February 21, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Bob Woods ]
"People who have seen the movie say that it is pretty bloody, and maybe unsuitable for children, but historically accurate."
By what standard? Even the bible is confused as to who carried the cross to the hill.
[ February 21, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Bob Woods ]
I am no expert on Mel Gibson. All I know about him is that he is a pretty good actor and he was involved in the production of this movie. I know nothing about his father and whether or not his father actually believed that the Holocaust was overblown or not. I am not going to accuse anybody of being a 'religious bigot' unless I know for sure that is the case. Even if Mel Gibson's father does believe that the Holocaust was overblown does not mean that Mel Gibson necessarily believes that way.
There is only one way that a person can determine if this film is a good film or not-go and watch it. Make up your own mind. I plan on watching the movie. I am a religious person (I was raised as a Catholic) and although I do not attend Church (except for weddings and funerals) I continue to be a religious person. I do not discriminate against any religion. I am not anti-Jewish. Jesus himself was of course a Jew. The Holocaust was a great human tragedy (by the way, in addtion to the 6 million Jews in the Concentration camps, there were also millions of non-Jews).
Thank you Rabbis for your advice on this movie. When the movie comes out I will go and watch it and make up my own mind. If I feel it is a great movie then I will later buy a copy of the movie. If I feel the movie is flawed and anti-Jewish then I will say so; including in this forum.
There is only one way that a person can determine if this film is a good film or not-go and watch it. Make up your own mind. I plan on watching the movie. I am a religious person (I was raised as a Catholic) and although I do not attend Church (except for weddings and funerals) I continue to be a religious person. I do not discriminate against any religion. I am not anti-Jewish. Jesus himself was of course a Jew. The Holocaust was a great human tragedy (by the way, in addtion to the 6 million Jews in the Concentration camps, there were also millions of non-Jews).
Thank you Rabbis for your advice on this movie. When the movie comes out I will go and watch it and make up my own mind. If I feel it is a great movie then I will later buy a copy of the movie. If I feel the movie is flawed and anti-Jewish then I will say so; including in this forum.
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Who cares if about this or that? The bottom line is that Jesus had to die. How else could he be the perfect sacrifice for sins of all humanity??
Is the importance in the details of how this occured?? Interesting history, for sure ..but to what end??
So what if the Jewish clergy betrayed him? So what if Pilate persecuted him?
Someone had to do it.
Don't believe that he was the son of GOD? Okay ..don't.
[ February 21, 2004, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Is the importance in the details of how this occured?? Interesting history, for sure ..but to what end??
So what if the Jewish clergy betrayed him? So what if Pilate persecuted him?
Someone had to do it.
Don't believe that he was the son of GOD? Okay ..don't.
[ February 21, 2004, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
The bottom line is that Jesus had to die.
True!!! He knew he was on earth for that purpose, he also was warned that if he entered the city he would be arrested, yet he chose to do so because he was already commited. He made a life altering choice, and since he was not of this life, he knew he would be risen, yet on the cross he slipped when he whined, Father why has thou forsaken me. Another attempt to portray him as a common man for literary purposes. Christians should celebrate the Romans and Jews for without them to blame Christianity would not exsist.
True!!! He knew he was on earth for that purpose, he also was warned that if he entered the city he would be arrested, yet he chose to do so because he was already commited. He made a life altering choice, and since he was not of this life, he knew he would be risen, yet on the cross he slipped when he whined, Father why has thou forsaken me. Another attempt to portray him as a common man for literary purposes. Christians should celebrate the Romans and Jews for without them to blame Christianity would not exsist.
The Bottom Line is that no one knows anything. Everyone thinks they know, but they don't.
To those that are so sure of these things, were you there? Were you there when the Gospels were written?
(non-sarcastic tone BTW)
This goes back to my previous post. I think mankind would be better off if everyone excepted the fact that NO ONE really knows what happend then and to stay open minded.
[ February 21, 2004, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
To those that are so sure of these things, were you there? Were you there when the Gospels were written?
This goes back to my previous post. I think mankind would be better off if everyone excepted the fact that NO ONE really knows what happend then and to stay open minded.
[ February 21, 2004, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
Buster, this much I do know:
Mel Gibson made a movie that a segment of the population is trying to censor.
I didn't recall the same thing about SCHINDLER'S LIST.
Mel Gibson made a movie that a segment of the population is trying to censor.
I didn't recall the same thing about SCHINDLER'S LIST.
That's true. The tragic history of the persecution of the Jewish people and anti-Semitism makes no sense. How can christians say "Jesus died for our sins," turn around, and and say "And you killed him." If Jesus accepted it then Christians should follow that fine leadership.
Same goes for Pilot. Can you claim he made the wroing decision? Could Pilot have prevented Jesus' death? He could have delayed it maybe, but it was prophecy.
Schindler's List was really a good movie, but there is one glaring defect in that movie. As far as I can remember about that movie only the 6 million Jewish people who died in the Concentration camps are mentioned. Something like 8 to 12 million people are believed to have died in the camps. In addition to Jewish people there were Gypsies (the Nazis hated them for some reason), homosexuals (even though some of the top leadership among the Nazis were ********** and Hilter himself is alleged to have had weird sexual practices), even Polish Catholics, and some 200,000 plus Russians. This 8 to 12 million figure DOES NOT INCLUDE millions of people in various countries such as Poland, Russia, etc., who died under German control. In the case of Russia along, some 20-25 million Russians died during World War II including some 8 million soldiers. Most of the Russian soldiers who died and most of the Russian civilians who died were in German captivity when they died. Russian women were often worked to death digging tank traps.
Most of the young people living today have no idea what happened in World War II. With the horrible condition of American schools children are given no history training of any value.
Most of the young people living today have no idea what happened in World War II. With the horrible condition of American schools children are given no history training of any value.
The nazis also targeted those that were disabled, and borne with birth defects, those with low IQ's were also targeted. Eugenics were practiced in this country prior to WW2.
Why exactly do you say Gibson is a religious bigot? Tim
I have listened to him and read his statements.
Why exactly do you say Gibson is a religious bigot? Tim
I have listened to him and read his statements.
Tim , maybe you have not heard, but Mel's father is quoted as saying that the holocaust was a farce and that Jews are looking to take over the world.
That's Bob's reasoning, I would guess.
That's Bob's reasoning, I would guess.
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I believe that the Brits start "genetic hygiene" ..I forget what year(s).
...and yes, Appalacheans were routinely sterilized by the government at one time. I'm not sure about other groups.
...and continuing to drag this thread further off topic...
I often wondered why the German "domestic clensing" wasn't made a bigger deal of. Nor the 20 million Russians over two world wars ...nor the millions that Stalin starved to death. Pol Pot ..and the list goes on.
..I must admit, however, the Nazi programmed extermination of the Jew had a profound evil to it that somewhat makes the numbers not so important. It was like some warped kind of human slaughterhouse. Just as efficient ..and just as calous. For advanced (allegedly) civilized humans to reduce fellow humans to cattle is beyond my ability to grasp.
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