So why is that bad since the gap really doesn't matter when the end caps are sealed around the center tube.
The New Fram Ultra......
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As it relates to the internals of a spin on can oil filter, people really need to start thinking in terms of the path of least resistance. Too many people get worried about bypass spec this or the seal around the bypass valve that. In a fully pressurized situation is the path of least resistance going to be the filter media or the bypass valve or the seal around the bypass valve which frankly is sealed and held in place by said oil pressure?
Maybe they’ve redesigned it for the better.
I recall Jay Buckley, who at the time was I believe the technical training director at FRAM, told us off record he didn’t like metal baseplate/metal screen construction. Something about it being hard to prevent the media from tearing.
As many of you will remember, there was recently a Fram Ultra failure that ruined a Mazda engine. There was an issue with the ADBV. Fram paid for all the costs associated with replacing the engine.
I recall Jay Buckley, who at the time was I believe the technical training director at FRAM, told us off record he didn’t like metal baseplate/metal screen construction. Something about it being hard to prevent the media from tearing.
As many of you will remember, there was recently a Fram Ultra failure that ruined a Mazda engine. There was an issue with the ADBV. Fram paid for all the costs associated with replacing the engine.
Nice video, looks like a decent filter. Fram still backing it with a 20k oci. Fram must have found out the mesh screen has no added benefit unless it would have been left.
When there is delta-p across the entire dirty side of the filter, if there is any leakage path there will also be some flow of dirty oil through the leak paths. It won't be much depending on the size of the leak path. IMO, I think some filters with just a metal-on-metal bypass valve seal lose a little bit of efficiency because it's not a perfect seal, especially when the delta-p starts increasing.
Anyway, my comment was specifically about the gap around the center tube on Fram EG and TG filters. Some people see that gap and think it's leaking dirty oil, but it's not because there is a seal all around the center tube on the end cap from the ADBV or the leaf spring assembly.
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OVERKILL
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It's the same design that failed, they've just changed the media. So no, it's a cost cutting measure (that makes sense) in terms of removing the mesh backing and using a very efficient cellulose media with a synthetic "topper" that they can produce on the regular production line.
If @Ascent Filtration Testing wants a new style (or two) XG7317 Ultras to test, I’ll send 2 of mine, I used Meijer discounts on them & won‘t get much credit for returning them. PM me.
Did you see the cost associated with testing one oil filter? A bit more than I could have ever imagined....but, I'm not in the industry.
Contrary to so many silly panicked posters in this thread, manufacturing cost reduction is a Good Thing, as long as there's no meaningful loss of function. That's the way technology evolves, and a reason we're not still using film cameras and vacuum-tube radios.
Getting rid of the metal screen may require more pleats, but it also allows more pleats. It might reduce cost of inspection, if they no longer have to beware of loose metal screen fragments that could be swept into engines.
Getting rid of the metal screen may require more pleats, but it also allows more pleats. It might reduce cost of inspection, if they no longer have to beware of loose metal screen fragments that could be swept into engines.
At this price point some of the reason why we're buying them is perceived quality if I wanted cellulose and no backing I'd buy a $3-4 e-core or and extragaurd, that metal back and dual layer micro glass media was the only reason it was worth a premium price, they 100% did not read the market correctly, premium touches are the only reason to pay extra, plus my primary reason for buying wire backed media was that I liked knowing that during cold starts if I run thicker oil that it won't twist the media to hell, but with this there's no reinforcement to reassure me of that.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Poor parallel here. There's reducing cost of production, retaining quality, and then there is cheapening a product to reduce the production cost, which is what using a cellulose backer with a light dusting of synthetic media on top of it achieves. It improves production efficiency (can be produced on the same line as other filters) and deletes the metal mesh backing.
Getting rid of the metal screen turns it into a slightly better PureONE in drag. This isn't revolutionary; FRAM hasn't cracked some ancient Chinese secret here, everybody knows how to make efficient cellulose. The advantages of depth filtration go beyond just the filtration efficiency and putting a depth topper on top of cellulose still means that your filtration is primarily achieved via pore-block, which reduces flow and brings with it the weaknesses cellulose has, such as tearing and poor response to moisture. The synthetic topper allows for the increased holding capacity, which was one of the highly lauded features of the original.
Glass media (and synthetic fibre) filters are expensive to make. The Ultra was the least expensive one on the market and also had the best filtration efficiency. Now, it isn't one anymore, it's just a super efficient cellulose filter (like the Mobil 1 filter, but more efficient) with a higher pleat count to make up for some of the flow loss from the media change and a layer of synthetic media affixed to the cellulose to improve holding capacity.
This isn't an improvement unless your only metric is efficiency, at which point, we are splitting hairs. They've figured out how to make the product cheaper, unfortunately, it was by making the product cheaper
Maybe, but the jury is still out. We'll know when we start seeing them cut open after they've been in service and swapped out at oil changes. Until then, all we can do is make educated guesses. The more I read this thread the warm and fuzzy feelings I had for Fram are slipping away.
IMO they would have been better off leaving well enough alone, and increasing the price to compensate for cost cutting. They pissed off and disappointed a lot of enthusiasts it appears, a small percent of their customers, but still not good. If they were smart they'd have someone check message boards like this and social media, WAKE UP FRAM!!
They don't care.
When I asked them to explain the discrepancy in numbers they went mute.
When I asked them to explain the discrepancy in numbers they went mute.
Well that would be adding insult to injury, wouldn't it. Imo, the price should drop ~$2 because of media/element cheapening. That's not happening, TG already in that price range.
I see some mentioning the metal screen alone. As noted several times, it was that thick micro glass "2 ply synthetic media" that required the use of the metal screen. So, it 'was' the total package, media and screen that made the authentic Ultra the real deal. Now that element gone to cost cutting.
I was just about to s ay the same thing. For me it's been 2 Walmarts & 2 Meijers and I was only able to score 2 Ultra's with the wire backing...
I did score a couple of XG8As with the screen for the Hot Rod truck.
I'll go OE on the rest.
I'll go OE on the rest.
Not me, never said that. The Fram video shows the automated glue process for the end caps. If the cap is off center the engineering design is not being met. Since we can't see what's inside the can we buy without destroying it, I say no thanks to that assembly sloppiness. Agree, disagree, each does what they see fit.
Got to keep this thread going, it is so vastly important to mankind what has happened to the Ultra.
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