The New Fram Ultra......

[Brian123]

2 minutes ago

Brian		1:26 PM (46 minutes ago)
How is the new media at 5 microns compared to the old media and whats the holding capacity of the new media versus the old media? Has the Flow versus delta-p ch

Technical Hotline​	2:02 PM (10 minutes ago)
to me

Hello,


The capacity has rating did not change and remains the same as the previous XG filters.

FRAM does not have 5 micron test specifics available. The industry generally releases the Industry Standard results at 20 micron. However we did have ratings available at 15 and 10 micron that we showed in the last email.

The flow rates were not effected . The flow ratings meet and or exceed the OE specification for the applications they are assigned to.

 

[OVERKILL]

The flow rates were not effected . The flow ratings meet and or exceed the OE specification for the applications they are assigned to.

And that's what I was digging at earlier. Just like with the PureONE, you can produce a high efficiency blend or cellulose media that will flow sufficient volume for the application as long as you put enough media in the can. I don't for a second believe that the flow rate wasn't affected, but its reduction, as long as it's within OEM parameters is their main concern and they've increased pleat count to keep it there.

On the holding capacity, I suspected that the addition of the synthetic outer "facer" was added to retain that, and this seems to be confirming that suspicion. Cellulose, being a pore-block media, cannot have the same holding capacity as a depth filtration media. So, you put a bit of a depth filtration topper on the cellulose and voila! You improve holding capacity while still allowing for the reduction in production cost.

 

[DuckRyder]

So according to this thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-ultra-efficiency-10-microns.264383/

“Fram Ultra Guard filter, it is 99 percent efficient at 20 microns. At 10 microns it’s 94 percent efficient.”

See also:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...tings-and-what-they-mean-for-your-oil-filter/

Now Fram is saying it was 70% @10 and the new one is 74% @10.

I smell something and it isn't roses.

 

[Blagoje]

So according to this thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-ultra-efficiency-10-microns.264383/



See also:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...tings-and-what-they-mean-for-your-oil-filter/

Now Fram is saying it was 70% @10 and the new one is 74% @10.

I smell something and it isn't roses.

Comparatively speaking Royal Purple advertises on their website that their oil filters are 80% @ 10 microns and 98.7% @ 20 microns.

https://www.royalpurple.com/consumer/extended-life-oil-filters/

 

[daman]

Fleetguard does make a few passenger car sizes with their synthetic media,

Hate to say it but the last filter I asked about that had the wire backed stratapore media the filtration efficiency wasn't anything to wright home about. : (

 

[Krieg]

Can we please have respectful discourse? There have been great threads that have locked due to bickering between parties....We learn from each other...thanks for your consideration!

 

[OVERKILL]

Hate to say it but the last filter I asked about that had the wire backed stratapore media the filtration efficiency wasn't anything to wright home about. : (

Yeah, the 100% at 30 microns isn't screaming "SUPER EFFICIENCY!" at me, but hopefully we can get some better data, I tagged the Cummins Filtration guy in the post.

 

[Job]

The latest Ultra rating is in this thread, in writing from Fram. Old Ultra 70%@10, new Ultra 74%@10 in prototype form. As far as I know this was the first other than the box, and website, written data from Fram. They pretty much keep these things private except what is officially to be marketed.

 

[Job]

Boy, that seems high! I remember when MINIX, who used to run the Rogers call centre here was hiring and they were $12/hr. Now, minimum wage has gone up since then but that's a $25,000/year job, literally 1/4 of the figure you cited.

I just looked up call centre jobs. Bi-lingual one pays $15.70/hr, one for an ISP pays $33,000-$37,000/year.

You know I said out the door as an estimate. That includes all employee benefits. I would still say about the same, higher in some locations, lower in others. In 2005 about my wife was making like 46 in wages. Double that for net cost. It wasn’t a low paying job.

 

[OVERKILL]

You know I said out the door as an estimate. That includes all employee benefits. I would still say about the same, higher in some locations, lower in others. In 2005 about my wife was making like 46 in wages. Double that for net cost. It wasn’t a low paying job.

Benefits are going to vary wildly of course from generous to non-existent. GM probably pays a LOT better than many other call centres.

 

[bullwinkle]

Interesting that they state the “holding capacity” of a thin layer of synthetic media (which is going to be higher efficiency than the more porous backing cellulose) is going to be the same as the thicker all synthetic media of the old Ultra. In all his posts here, I never saw anything from Jay Buckley that sounded like a lie-but his successors are hurling Bovine Scatology all over the place!

 

[bullwinkle]

Comparatively speaking Royal Purple advertises on their website that their oil filters are 80% @ 10 microns and 98.7% @ 20 microns.

https://www.royalpurple.com/consumer/extended-life-oil-filters/

I hope nothing else changed with the RP other than the Ecore center tube!

 

[brownm1234]

I’ve got around 2k miles on a new version 7317. I’ll cut it open when it hits 5k.

 

[IndyFan]

I hope nothing else changed with the RP other than the Ecore center tube!

All the moaning in this thread about the Fram and loss of value and some are turning to these suckers are $15.99. I just don't get the logic there.

 

[bbhero]

That could depend on which filter model it is. As shown per the info from Fram engineering on the XG10060 model in post #57, the efficiency went up on particles less than 20u (at 10 and 15 microns). So who really knows for sure.

The XG10575 that Andrew tested is larger in size than the XG10060, which might have made numbers come out different - but a visual extrapolation of Andrew's test data looks like the old Ultra XG10575 would hit 80% @ 5u. Need to compare the ISO efficiency between an old vs new filter on the same exact filter model in the same ISO test lab for a better comparison.

True....

But still....

I'd bet good money.....In almost every filter size and application...

That it's lesser filter material vs the old one. And cheaper...

Looks like TG media with synthetic fibers either sprayed on or it's a extremely shallow layer of synthetic fiber.

Thus......

The very different appearance. Cheaper to manufacture with cheaper material.

Though it is still a very good product.

I'd just rather get a Force filter and it be what it actually is....

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Both layers look pretty thin to me - total thickness is only 0.030". Video jumps to where the media is shown up close.

 

[bbhero]

So according to this thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-ultra-efficiency-10-microns.264383/



See also:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...tings-and-what-they-mean-for-your-oil-filter/

Now Fram is saying it was 70% @10 and the new one is 74% @10.

I smell something and it isn't roses.

Yep DR.....

It appears to be playing games and making things up in terms of history.

 

[bbhero]

^^^ Both layers look pretty thin to me. Video jumps to where the media is shown.




View attachment 67517

Yeah that's does seem to be the case here.

It's still a very good filter.

Seems like changes made that made it cheaper and not quite the same extremely high level of materials.

Hope they don't start "changing" the EGs and Force filters too.

 

[Blagoje]

All the moaning in this thread about the Fram and loss of value and some are turning to these suckers are $15.99. I just don't get the logic there.

My thoughts are that the RP's efficiency is nearly as good the Fram Ultra while still having wire backed full synthetic media. RP's cans are built to racing specs with 625 burst psi and overall it is a very heavy duty, quality product. I actually like the fact that it has an e-core because the wire backing will be absorbing most of the oil pressure so the e-core should never be too stressed while in all likelihood allowing for substantially better flow characteristics.

$14-$15 may seem high by comparison to a $9-$10 Ultra with wire backed media but the additional upgrades you get with an RP can should legitimately make up the difference to justify the higher price. I would buy an RP can filter without hesitation because I like how they are built.

 

[daman]

Yeah, the 100% at 30 microns isn't screaming "SUPER EFFICIENCY!" at me, but hopefully we can get some better data, I tagged the Cummins Filtration guy in the post.

Ok cool, I agree not real bad but I was thinking a lil better from them