The Most Stringent OEM Specification
- Thread starter buster
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Originally Posted By: buster
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According to the recently updated 2012 LZ spider graph, the most stringent OEM spec is still the Porsche C30, followed by MB 229.51. dexos 1 is pretty stringent, but not the most.
Depends how you look at it. In some respects, MB 229.51 is actually more stringent than C30.
Also, VW 507.00 as well as VW 504.00 appear to be exactly the same as C30.
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According to the recently updated 2012 LZ spider graph, the most stringent OEM spec is still the Porsche C30, followed by MB 229.51. dexos 1 is pretty stringent, but not the most.
Depends how you look at it. In some respects, MB 229.51 is actually more stringent than C30.
Also, VW 507.00 as well as VW 504.00 appear to be exactly the same as C30.
Are these specs relevant to most of us? Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 has great approvals including Porsche C30 but tests show our gasoline tears it up in 5,000 miles in a VW 2.5L. ESP 5W-40 meets the MB spec you mentioned but who here uses it?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Are these specs relevant to most of us? Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 has great approvals including Porsche C30 but tests show our gasoline tears it up in 5,000 miles in a VW 2.5L. ESP 5W-40 meets the MB spec you mentioned but who here uses it?
Tears it up???!? Ive posted a bunch of great used oil analysis from it.
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
Are these specs relevant to most of us? Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 has great approvals including Porsche C30 but tests show our gasoline tears it up in 5,000 miles in a VW 2.5L. ESP 5W-40 meets the MB spec you mentioned but who here uses it?
Tears it up???!? Ive posted a bunch of great used oil analysis from it.
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Unusable? Tearing it up? OK I used the wrong wording for you. Cut me some slack. You choose the wording you like to describe a "great spec'd" oil used up at 5,000 miles or so. Do you still use it? If no, then why did you change? I did mention the gas here in the USA as the culprit. Also how many oils will NOT have a great UOA after 3-5,000 miles?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
So what is your point?
Are you upset that things done in other countries work better than they do in NA?
If NA was always correct they would have got Concorde and VTOL aircraft to work.
But, yeah, [censored] other countries!
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
So what is your point?
Are you upset that things done in other countries work better than they do in NA?
If NA was always correct they would have got Concorde and VTOL aircraft to work.
But, yeah, [censored] other countries!
As others have said, I would say that 229.51 is pretty strict. C30 = 504/507, also fairly strict.
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
So what is your point?
Are you upset that things done in other countries work better than they do in NA?
If NA was always correct they would have got Concorde and VTOL aircraft to work.
But, yeah, [censored] other countries!
A couple of NA guys complaining about the poor quality of US gas? How is that offensive to you? "F" bombs? Really?
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
TBN retention is what makes it unusable, not something tearing it up.
And what causes quick TBN depletion is probably the result of us not having ultra-low sulfur gasoline or having ethanol in our gas, or both.
Ohhhh. Very good comment. Perhaps that is another point for our shorter oci [censored] other countries
So what is your point?
Are you upset that things done in other countries work better than they do in NA?
If NA was always correct they would have got Concorde and VTOL aircraft to work.
But, yeah, [censored] other countries!
A couple of NA guys complaining about the poor quality of US gas? How is that offensive to you? "F" bombs? Really?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Unusable? Tearing it up? OK I used the wrong wording for you. Cut me some slack. You choose the wording you like to describe a "great spec'd" oil used up at 5,000 miles or so. Do you still use it? If no, then why did you change? I did mention the gas here in the USA as the culprit. Also how many oils will NOT have a great UOA after 3-5,000 miles?
Not trying to belittle your comment, just trying to add some accuracy.
If we saw it sheared out of grade or oxidized to a heavier grade, or some other aspect of issues, Id definitely say it was torn up.
Fortunately the oil survived, and the add pack looked good. Is all just TBN retention... Due to our high sulfur gasoline as mentioned. If it had just been a little higher, like 2-2.5, I would still be running it at 5k OCIs... I like the idea of a 5w30 ACEA A3 oil with a slightly lower viscosity...
Unusable? Tearing it up? OK I used the wrong wording for you. Cut me some slack. You choose the wording you like to describe a "great spec'd" oil used up at 5,000 miles or so. Do you still use it? If no, then why did you change? I did mention the gas here in the USA as the culprit. Also how many oils will NOT have a great UOA after 3-5,000 miles?
Not trying to belittle your comment, just trying to add some accuracy.
If we saw it sheared out of grade or oxidized to a heavier grade, or some other aspect of issues, Id definitely say it was torn up.
Fortunately the oil survived, and the add pack looked good. Is all just TBN retention... Due to our high sulfur gasoline as mentioned. If it had just been a little higher, like 2-2.5, I would still be running it at 5k OCIs... I like the idea of a 5w30 ACEA A3 oil with a slightly lower viscosity...
I understand where you are coming from, however to me whether it is depleted TBN, shearing, add pack whatever..If it is not useable after 5,000 +/- miles and has what people posted as top of the line specs (the original subject of this thread)something unusual happened to the oil in such a short OCI compared to the same oil in applications elsewhere.....I'll leave it at that.
^^^^^
Agreed. Using the phrase "tearing up" to describe a high end euro spec oil that can't go to 5k miles is appropriate. Especially if that oil claims it is suitable for extended drains of 15k miles (so long as the manufacturer agrees)
If you used it in an incompatible application and / or the manufacturer oci was less than 5k, then you might have an argument that the terminology is inaccurate. Otherwise this is a product sold for the US market and the sulphur level in gas is not an excuse.
Agreed. Using the phrase "tearing up" to describe a high end euro spec oil that can't go to 5k miles is appropriate. Especially if that oil claims it is suitable for extended drains of 15k miles (so long as the manufacturer agrees)
If you used it in an incompatible application and / or the manufacturer oci was less than 5k, then you might have an argument that the terminology is inaccurate. Otherwise this is a product sold for the US market and the sulphur level in gas is not an excuse.
JHZR2
Staff member
As I understand it, sulfur level IS acceptable in terms of an excuse, because VW US-gasoline engines still spec 502 oils, NOT 504/507. The 504/507 oils are for diesels, which use 15ppm fuel at far higher MPGs, then the 50ppm sulfur fuels used in lower MPG gas engines.
I get the symmantics, but AFAIK, and from my used oil analysis that proved 5k mile utility in my 2.5L engine, Ill openly admit that it was an incorrect application... I ran it based upon the fact that 504 supercedes 502 in some places...
But just like my 2011 135i still specing BMW LL-01, not the newer versions, lack of low sulfur fuel and no lean stratified charge IS a consideration...
And again, besides TBN, the oil was not torn up...
I get the symmantics, but AFAIK, and from my used oil analysis that proved 5k mile utility in my 2.5L engine, Ill openly admit that it was an incorrect application... I ran it based upon the fact that 504 supercedes 502 in some places...
But just like my 2011 135i still specing BMW LL-01, not the newer versions, lack of low sulfur fuel and no lean stratified charge IS a consideration...
And again, besides TBN, the oil was not torn up...
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