'The Light Of Bob"

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
No, frank, this is NOT the place.
First, YOU are trying to SELL YOUR GREASE.
Second, you are trying to pawn it of as what the factory used, and that IS A LIE. Plain and simple. A LIE.
You CANNOT provide proof that it was used at the factory level, because it wasn't.
I have had original, un-molested (confirmed, mind you) axles apart. So has E-rock. So have the other's you're trying to say are wrong, such as Marlin, Longfield, etc.
You HAVE NOT.
You say you want to shed light on this situation?
So put up or shut up.
Post the brand name of what it is you're selling, so it can be researched.



Rixxer,

Settle down, I am not selling grease on "Bob" I do have this grease but I am selling it thru Novak adapt,

It is one of possibly several types of grease suitable in this application,

Beside the point, I am posting on "Bob" to educate, inform,that is all, 93 Chewbacca hoped that this site could shed some light on this situation,

I am doing that, to the best of my ability, Talking about CV joint grease,

I make no bones about it, this is the educational phase, if at some point "Bob" wishes me to become a contributing member, great, I will scrape some $ together and buck up,

I would like to think, that the information at this point provided from hours of research ,studying this design to get folks the correct information about the grade of grease needed for proper lubrication of this axle, will suffice,

Also, Because of the depth of misunderstanding, effective "Brainwashing" of the consumer, I cant even give the correct grade of grease to a Toyota owner,

Folks that do not even have this axle are testing it, in conventional open knuckle axles,

So no not selling just talking about grease, grade, applications on a grease site,

 

[IH8mush]

"Post the brand name of what it is you're selling, so it can be researched."

BACKWOODSGOOP

90% proprietary base oil
2.5 % proprietary insoluble moly additives,

And may contain other non hazardous Trade Secret Ingredients,

(obviously does cuz 90 and 2.5 dont add up to 100)

 

[Rix]

You are trying to advertise.
What you are trying to advertise as "factory grease" IS NOT factory grease.
It is neither correct base, nor grade.
This is not a toyota site. You are not trying to teach anything, you're trying to further your crusade.

Again, I've worked on toyotas for 15 years. I HAVE seen what came from the factory, and the stuff you're trying to sell IS NOT IT.
And your "#2 grease won't work in a c.v. joint" is just wrong.

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
"Post the brand name of what it is you're selling, so it can be researched."

BACKWOODSGOOP

90% proprietary base oil
2.5 % proprietary insoluble moly additives,

And may contain other non hazardous Trade Secret Ingredients,

(obviously does cuz 90 and 2.5 dont add up to 100)

Post up the name frank.
Putting your label on something else isn't telling us anything.

 

[IH8mush]

Rixxer,

You harping on the "Selling grease" in hopes that Bob will get mad,

I am not "Selling grease" on Bob, just talking about it, again the grease is sold thru Novak,

Regardless, this is the "Educational phase" I am not selling any grease because the potential consumer is unaware of it,

I think "Bob" appreciates the information, My goal is not to sell grease but rather to take out the online Toyota propaganda machine,

I need a sample of the correct grade of grease to show folks,

There are manufactures that do sell this grade of semi fluid grease for this application

Rover,

from what I have read a #00 molytex grease

Since Toyota does not make this available, and on top of that give a incompatible , incorrect recommendation in the FSM

I stepped Forward,

If I was able to go to my local Toyota dealer and purchase this grease instead of getting the complete run around and being Told it was "Private"

You would not have me,

I would have purchased the grease from Toyota, went back to my happy little shop and never would have researched why in the world a grease would be "Private"

And continued going on knowing nothing or very little about grease,

So very thankful to Toyota for opening a new aspect of the trade that I never knew about, never taught, never wondered about,

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I would like to think, that the information at this point provided from hours of research ,studying this design to get folks the correct information about the grade of grease needed for proper lubrication of this axle, will suffice,

Also, Because of the depth of misunderstanding, effective "Brainwashing" of the consumer, I cant even give the correct grade of grease to a Toyota owner,


You can hardly give it away to Toyota owners because it takes about 3 minutes of careful consideration of all of the available information to determine that your "hours of research ,studying this design" have resulted in an incorrect conclusion.

Salient points:
-#2 grease stays in the birfield just fine. It flows just fine around the metal parts as they move, yet doesn't fall or leak out.
-#2 grease stays in the trunion bearings just fine as well. It doesn't fall out, so there is no need to "fling" more up there.
-The grease is packed in the birfield, so nothing else (like air) can get in. That means there is no void space, hence all of the parts are always covered.
-There is absolutely no reason for grease to "flow" between the knuckle and the wheel bearings. They have two completely different functions with different lubricant needs. It makes sens to use the appropriate lubricant for each.
-While it is possible for grease to flow from one area to another, it was clearly not intended to be the normal function. The lube grooves in the spindle bushing don't provide an unobstructed path. There is no return path or method of circulating the lubricant. If it's just a common "pool" of grease with no circulation path, there is a whole lot of grease that's just sitting around doing nothing but adding parasitic drag to the drivetrain. What you're proposing is like filling the torque tube of an old axle with grease and operating the driveshaft in a lubricant bath. There's no reason to do it when the areas that need the lubrication are at the ends and they do just fine with their own separate lubricant.
-It came from the factory with #2. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the manufacturer using a #2 in this application, you cannot reasonably dispute that they put a #2 in there originally. Doing so erodes your waning credibility.

 

[Rix]

You're trying to make something out of nothing.
You're posting information that is false, making stuff up as you go, and trying to pawn it off as some hard and fast "rule".
To top it off, you're challenging ME, on THIS site, about stuff from a totally different site, and then trying to goad me with it.
And I'll say it again:
What you are trying to say is factory, IS NOT.
I know this because I have seen what came in these vehicles from the factory, and the stuff you are trying to sell, IS NOT IT. Now remember, I HAVE a sample of the stuff you're trying to sell. And it is NOT the correct product.
And with the very little information you've given about the product, you can buy better grease at nearly any parts store. Right over the counter.
HOLDING BACK THE NAME OF THE ACTUAL PRODUCT, SO IT CAN'T BE LOOKED INTO FURTHER IS not an attempt to educate, it's more like the proverbeal "pulling the wool over the eyes".

 

[IH8mush]

To top it off, you're challenging ME, on THIS site, about stuff from a totally different site

Easy Now Rixxer,

All along I have been telling you that I am here to help you,

Just did not seem right to me for folks to be mis informed ,

If you do not feel comfortable defending Toyota sales incompatible grease recommendation here on "Bob" go away,

Resulting to calling me a liar, will probrobly get you a time out here,

This is my take on the situation, a 20 year veteran of drivetrain repair, ASE certified,

If I am incorrect on the matter, that is one thing, but here on "Bob" Rixxer you cannot get away with the insults,

This is the situation as I see it, what first hand types of grease I have seen in all CV joint, and in all Rebuild kits,

I provided a part # and of a average boot kit, and photos of a average "honda" axle,

Please do not call me a liar, Post the part # of your boot kits or any information you have on it or go away,

I wish to learn more about grease, not argue , If in fact the grease grade has changed to something thicker Why?

The #1 grade grease used for years in these axles and what the replacement grease is in my neck of the woods is #1 or thinner

and Typically the grease out lasts the boot, so if you have some information regarding this please post it,

What you have there appears to be to thick , especially the green stuff,

 

[Rix]

I'm not going to repeat myself anymore.

The information is readily available. I don't have any need to prove you wrong, you do that on your own.

You trying to pawn off the wrong stuff, and lying about it being the same as OEM just irritates me a bit.

 

[IH8mush]

It is the correct grade used by manufactures in CV joint,

in these applications,


Why Toyota Sales tells you #2 grade and you diagnose #1 grade or thinner as axle seal failure in this axle,

I would be more than irratated , I would quit and find a different job,

If they are misinforming you about grease, what else are they allowing you to "Mis diagnose"

Really in the end its no skin off your nose, you get a paycheck and a happy upsell sometimes,

But you take out a grease well known to last 30 plus years in these axles,

Charge the cust good money to fix a problem engineered by Toyota sales,

And the reason they can do this is because of your trusting nature as a tech, and the lack of grease education,

Nothing wrong with the type of grease you show in that axle your fixing for leakage, I would venture to say that that is #1 grade grease not seal failure,

And the leak your fixing is comming from oil separation or incompatible grease used in the wheel bearings causing the oil leak,

common, because unlike 93 Chewbacca you have not identified the need for the same grease in the entire assembly

Why ?

Because your following a guide line from Toyota sales Engineers,

And I am here to re educate you,,,,

 

[Rix]

Noone is misinforming me, frank.
You're trying to, though. And it's not working.


And I've told you NUMEROUS times, that the side in the pictures was NOT the side that was leaking externally. Therefore, that grease is much closer to the factory grease.



"charge a customer to fix a problem engineered by toyota sales"



I need say no more.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
But is does no harm, none

What do you define as harm?


Gear or bearing failure,

Have any of these failed due to lubrication issues?

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
But is does no harm, none

What do you define as harm?


Gear or bearing failure,

Have any of these failed due to lubrication issues?


Yes Tempest,

The upper trunnion bearing causes a great deal of concern since it is not properly lubricated,

I mentioned this on a thread on North West Wheelers, guys debating what type of brand of bearing would be best,
Told them not bearing brand persay, (although I like Timmken)
but the wrong type of lubrication,

premature bearing failure in this application can be as of a result of prolonged 2wd mode even with the correct grade of grease,

I was banned from the NWW operation for mentioning lubrication as a possible cause,

This is one aspect, the main one I feel, beings as this bearing holds the CV joint true,in place any looseness in the trunnion bearings, puts a load on the CV joint that it is not designed to take,

Now this premature bearing failure is attributed to the larger than Stock tires,

Sure that puts more of a load on the bearing but all the more reason to use the proper form of lubrication,

Generally these axles will get up to 30 years of use and abuse on them, then something gives out, they are reworked, and last only a fraction of the time, with a #2 grease,

failures of a broken CV shaft are common place in this application, in "Hard Core Wheeler Rigs", again all the more reason to use a correct grade of grease,

These axles can develop grooves where the seal rides ( Axle) as a result of using a #2 grease,

Dirt collects near the seal area and acts as a grinding compound and chews into the steel,
Dirt that is wiped in because of the #2 grease not forming a "Viscous seal"

and of course after a bit Clicking CV joints when turning as a result of them wearing out, it viewed as "Normal" to have this clicking noise,

Not in any other CV shaft, Clicking while turning is a sure sign the thing is trashed,

Not only dirt but water also enters, with the #2 grease,,,

No there are many common problems that develop with this axle, as a result of using a #2 grease,

Some have identified them such as Chewbacca, searching for the ideal grease,

but in the wrong grade,,

 

[IH8mush]

"And I've told you NUMEROUS times, that the side in the pictures was NOT the side that was leaking externally. Therefore, that grease is much closer to the factory grease."
Rixxer,

Well then there you have it that looks just like the Honda axle grease, in the outboard boot,

#1 grade,

Your posting what has every appearance of a #1 grade ,

And post up †he outside picture of the knuckle, discharging the #1 grade grease,

#2 dont do that,

So I really do not know why your hung up on that as being a #2

Grease,

By posting that as Factory grease your proving the sales dept wrong, Good Job Rixxer,

Your there

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
The upper trunnion bearing causes a great deal of concern since it is not properly lubricated,


Incorrect diagnosis.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I mentioned this on a thread on North West Wheelers, guys debating what type of brand of bearing would be best,
Told them not bearing brand persay, (although I like Timmken)
but the wrong type of lubrication,


If it's not the brand, why have a preference at all???

The fact is that it IS the brand. The cheap Chinese bearings that TrailGear sells simply do not last as long as quality bearings. This has played out MANY times on axles that have been otherwise lubricated and assembled identically.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush
premature bearing failure in this application can be as of a result of prolonged 2wd mode even with the correct grade of grease,


I have personally taken apart axles that I have personally packed #2 grease into the upper trunion bearing to find that bearing still happily packed and well-lubricated many YEARS later. The proper grease doesn't fall out and doesn't need to be constantly replenished.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I was banned from the NWW operation for mentioning lubrication as a possible cause,,


lol. You were banned for a child-like inability to follow simple forum rules and etiquette. There are many people that are more troublesome than you on that forum, but they're smart enough to contain their ramblings to applicable threads.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

This is one aspect, the main one I feel, beings as this bearing holds the CV joint true,in place any looseness in the trunnion bearings, puts a load on the CV joint that it is not designed to take,,


This makes no sense. A damaged or loose trunion bearing has very little effect on the birfield. If the bearings are set up incorrectly, the birfield could be off-center, impairing the inner axle seal's function. That's about it. There are no adverse loads on the joint.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Now this premature bearing failure is attributed to the larger than Stock tires,

Sure that puts more of a load on the bearing but all the more reason to use the proper form of lubrication,,


The sodium in your grease is just a thickener, right? Same thing with lithium or whatever else. It does impart some physical properties, but it's not the lubricant. So, it's fair to say that as long as there is SOME kind of grease in the bearing, it's lubricated, right?

These parts fail with huge tires even when they're still full of grease. Changing the thickener of the grease isn't going to change that.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Generally these axles will get up to 30 years of use and abuse on them, then something gives out, they are reworked, and last only a fraction of the time, with a #2 grease,
,


That's because people pull them off old trucks with 28-inch tires, rebuild them, and then run 38" tires that weigh 5 times as much and have an exponentially higher rotational torque.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

failures of a broken CV shaft are common place in this application, in "Hard Core Wheeler Rigs", again all the more reason to use a correct grade of grease,,


So, even though your grease won't prevent any breakage, you think people should still use something that's a LOT more expensive and difficult to work with for field repairs?

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

These axles can develop grooves where the seal rides ( Axle) as a result of using a #2 grease,
,


Incorrect diagnosis again.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Dirt collects near the seal area and acts as a grinding compound and chews into the steel,
Dirt that is wiped in because of the #2 grease not forming a "Viscous seal",


If that groove isn't being caused by a loose/damaged upper trunion bearing, explain why the groove even exists at the top of the ball. A properly preloaded upper trunion bearing wouldn't allow any noticeable movement at the 12-o'clock position of the seal in reference to the knuckle ball. So even if there was a LOT of vibration and play in the steering system, there wouldn't be any abrasion at that point.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush

and of course after a bit Clicking CV joints when turning as a result of them wearing out, it viewed as "Normal" to have this clicking noise,,


It is not viewed as "normal". Except in the sense that when they wear out, it's normal for them to start clicking.

 

[IH8mush]

Now Rixxer,

I do not know why your still posting those pictures they prove you wrong,

Others have told you this, not just me, that grease has every appearance of a #1 grade, just like in this axle

#2 grease would not look like that,,,

While sure the "Finger in the grease test would confirm, but again folks beside me have told you that is #1 grade

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: erock
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
The upper trunnion bearing causes a great deal of concern since it is not properly lubricated,


Incorrect diagnosis.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I mentioned this on a thread on North West Wheelers, guys debating what type of brand of bearing would be best,
Told them not bearing brand persay, (although I like Timmken)
but the wrong type of lubrication,


If it's not the brand, why have a preference at all???

The fact is that it IS the brand. The cheap Chinese bearings that TrailGear sells simply do not last as long as quality bearings. This has played out MANY times on axles that have been otherwise lubricated and assembled identically.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush
premature bearing failure in this application can be as of a result of prolonged 2wd mode even with the correct grade of grease,


I have personally taken apart axles that I have personally packed #2 grease into the upper trunion bearing to find that bearing still happily packed and well-lubricated many YEARS later. The proper grease doesn't fall out and doesn't need to be constantly replenished.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
I was banned from the NWW operation for mentioning lubrication as a possible cause,,


lol. You were banned for a child-like inability to follow simple forum rules and etiquette. There are many people that are more troublesome than you on that forum, but they're smart enough to contain their ramblings to applicable threads.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

This is one aspect, the main one I feel, beings as this bearing holds the CV joint true,in place any looseness in the trunnion bearings, puts a load on the CV joint that it is not designed to take,,


This makes no sense. A damaged or loose trunion bearing has very little effect on the birfield. If the bearings are set up incorrectly, the birfield could be off-center, impairing the inner axle seal's function. That's about it. There are no adverse loads on the joint.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Now this premature bearing failure is attributed to the larger than Stock tires,

Sure that puts more of a load on the bearing but all the more reason to use the proper form of lubrication,,


The sodium in your grease is just a thickener, right? Same thing with lithium or whatever else. It does impart some physical properties, but it's not the lubricant. So, it's fair to say that as long as there is SOME kind of grease in the bearing, it's lubricated, right?

These parts fail with huge tires even when they're still full of grease. Changing the thickener of the grease isn't going to change that.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Generally these axles will get up to 30 years of use and abuse on them, then something gives out, they are reworked, and last only a fraction of the time, with a #2 grease,
,


That's because people pull them off old trucks with 28-inch tires, rebuild them, and then run 38" tires that weigh 5 times as much and have an exponentially higher rotational torque.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

failures of a broken CV shaft are common place in this application, in "Hard Core Wheeler Rigs", again all the more reason to use a correct grade of grease,,


So, even though your grease won't prevent any breakage, you think people should still use something that's a LOT more expensive and difficult to work with for field repairs?

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

These axles can develop grooves where the seal rides ( Axle) as a result of using a #2 grease,
,


Incorrect diagnosis again.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Dirt collects near the seal area and acts as a grinding compound and chews into the steel,
Dirt that is wiped in because of the #2 grease not forming a "Viscous seal",


If that groove isn't being caused by a loose/damaged upper trunion bearing, explain why the groove even exists at the top of the ball. A properly preloaded upper trunion bearing wouldn't allow any noticeable movement at the 12-o'clock position of the seal in reference to the knuckle ball. So even if there was a LOT of vibration and play in the steering system, there wouldn't be any abrasion at that point.


Originally Posted By: IH8mush

and of course after a bit Clicking CV joints when turning as a result of them wearing out, it viewed as "Normal" to have this clicking noise,,


It is not viewed as "normal". Except in the sense that when they wear out, it's normal for them to start clicking.




#2 grease is not found in factory CV joints from any manufacture,

Just isnt

E -Rock, I do not think it is going to be as easy to promote your Toyota propaganda over here,

We will see, last thread was locked, possibly because of the constant bickering

CV joint lube is not #2 grade from production, in any Rig,

I have posted proof of this with a average axle, and explained why you find a thinner grease in the Inboard boot,

The any grease will work approach results in premature failure,

and to top it all off, you E-Rock pegged yourself as a Toyota propagandist way back when stating there was a "Spindle seal"

With all of the same " Authority as all these other posts,

You do not know grease, You do not know axle design and #2 grease is not suitable for a CV joint,

Not thin enough especially for a inboard Tri pod joint,

This is what the engineers say about the axle they build,

GKN, and By the way this outfit does supply the correct grade on Inboard CV joint lube,

 

[IH8mush]

"charge a customer to fix a problem engineered by toyota sales"



I need say no more.
_______

Rixxer,

Hide behind your salesmen as long as you want or can, but your posting a #1 grade grease as factory,

You proved the salesmen wrong, you just dont know it,,,,

 

[rshunter]

Someone needs to learn how to use the quote function and single space their responses...

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

"charge a customer to fix a problem engineered by toyota sales"



I need say no more.
_______

Rixxer,

Hide behind your salesmen as long as you want or can, but your posting a #1 grade grease as factory,

You proved the salesmen wrong, you just dont know it,,,,


Your lack of reading comprehension (or selective memory) doesn't make you any less incorrect, frank.