A Grease Story

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Originally Posted By: Rix
thinner than #1 huh?
And you measured this how again?
And you're going to say that the hub dial is going to contain a
thin lube, with just an o-ring?
You going to tell us the IFS trucks (post 1986) have the same #0 grease in the wheel bearing/wheel bearing hub too?
the grease specification, by your (flawed) "reverse engineering" MUST be the same as the 85 and older solid axle trucks, because they use the same wheel bearings, and a nearly identical wheel bearing hub.
Nope.

the solid axles came with one type of grease in the knuckle, and another type of grease in the wheel bearing.
They do NOT share grease. There is no flow between the 2.
They did NOT come from the factory with #0 grease in either part.
the grease they did come with was NOT sodium based.


Rix I measured the constistancy of the grease by sticking my finger into it and looking at it,

There is a chart that compares grease grades to food products, the difference between a #1 #2 is mayonaise and peanut butter,
#0 is sryup a quality Aunt Jemima A #00 would be a second store brand thinner sryup,
That sort of comparissions for those who do not know grease.
Food chart, I will look for it and show you,

And Yes O-rings are how the mechanical industry seal in fluid as well as paper gaskets,
 
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Originally Posted By: Rix
Syrup, mayonaise and peanut butter.
Stuck your finger in it.
Yup.



I do not think I have any special talents identifying grease grades, it is very easy, very simple, I can imagine that it gets a little grey in the greases that are described as 1 1/2 grade,

But yes there is charts that decsribe grease grades and compare them with food items,

As stated by grease specialist if is rather easy to separate the known from the unknown when you have a known grade to compare it with,

This is why I sent Longfield a sample of a known #1 grade grease in a can,
To compare with the unknown grade of the RCV grease, which is now that I inspected it

A #1 grade which does not back the misinformation in the Toyota sales book

While E- Rock, the Toyota propagandist has a laundry list of greases that supposedly back the Toyota sales book these for the most part are aftermarket greases,

I followed up on the RCV and Red line folks and found that they in no way back the Toyota FSM
As the rep from Redline stated apples and oranges

This present debate is about factory type CV grease,

I have given E -Rock the Trade names used by Nippon Oil company for these Birfield CV joints, for Honda and Hyundia and Toyota,

No comment,,
A comment by you though Rix, who the Blank cares about Hyundia, only proves your closed mindedness and how Toyota Sales is able to trick you,,,
 
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
While E- Rock, the Toyota propagandist


Do you think you could manage to knock off the name calling? (Or keep on with it and get yourself another vacation. I really don't care.)

I don't have any connection to Toyota; I have absolutely no vested interest in any of this except a pursuit of the truth. I am not the one trying to sell a product.
 
Great info & debate.

I find many mistakes in factory service & owners manuals to the point that they're best used for kindling.

Since I don't have one of these in my driveway, I'm not too worried about this debate. But, if you own one of these vehicles, do what you think is best until it fails.

Nice Ford trucks!!!
 
Originally Posted By: erock
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
While E- Rock, the Toyota propagandist


Do you think you could manage to knock off the name calling? (Or keep on with it and get yourself another vacation. I really don't care.)

I don't have any connection to Toyota; I have absolutely no vested interest in any of this except a pursuit of the truth. I am not the one trying to sell a product.


While the word "Propagandist" does conjure up in ones mind a negative sentiment, It is very accurate, While you take it as name calling, it is what it is, in other countries the word is used for commercials, Propaganda, it is information, good bad or indifferent,

While it is mostly used during times of War to undermine the moral of the enemy, get them demoralized and give up,

I have a identified Toyota propagandists, and you fit the bill, Mr E-rock
I have read up on the art of propaganda, Those in the field will usually appeal to the emotional side of the brain rather than the intellectual,
There are many well versed Toyota "propagandist" some are what I refer to as the "Illuminate" those who actually know the facts, but there are others that do not know the truth that propagate this misinformation, just as well, just as effectively
These propagandists have called me every name in the book, one of there fist weapons, tactics of humiliation, there are others like myself who have questioned Toyotas Grease recommendations,
One such individual was a maintenance mechanic for years, by the name of "HERB"
So while I did not get the inside joke of Kurt Williams stating that I would share a grease sandwich with my lube "Buddy" Herb , I found it, read his posts,

other folks have wised up to this "GREASE Game" So while they are the butt of these Toyota propagandists jokes bad mouthing name calling only goes so far,

E-Rock, I have given you the title Toyota propagandist You should take that as a compliment, these folks are highly educated, Engineer types, Educated at regular Schools of Higher learning, and at "Toyota University" well, you have some competition now, a regular mechanic educated at the school of hard knocks,

I have accepted the offer from "Woody" owner and operator of the largest mushroom factory, IH8mudd where he asked me to prove I knew what I was talking about,

And folks this is a dirty little Toyota secret, and as any of us know the best way to keep a secret is to spread mis information, "Obfuscate" The main objective of a Toyota propagandist,

And of course for those who do not know the SOHK term, Mushroom factory, it is a place where you are kept in the dark,
(all of these websites that have black screens ban me) and feed you [censored]

The websites with White screens allow this information,


"Illuminare his qui in tenebris et in umbra mortis sedent".
 
Originally Posted By: unDummy
Great info & debate.

I find many mistakes in factory service & owners manuals to the point that they're best used for kindling.

Since I don't have one of these in my driveway, I'm not too worried about this debate. But, if you own one of these vehicles, do what you think is best until it fails.

Nice Ford trucks!!!


Thanks Undummy,
While Toyota is the main focus here other manufactures do play a bit of this oil and grease game as well,

Sometimes you have to run the "Dealer stuff" but at least they sell it
 
010_AxleInHub.jpg



One the items of debate with this axle is that the upper trunnion bearing will not be splashed lubed,

To me it is obvious, the fill level of which Toyota improved upon (one could say) from the original Dana design allows the fluid level to be up as high as the bottom of the upper trunnion bearing,
Any agitation of a semi fluid would lube the upper trunnion bearing,
This actually is a main cause of failure, in this axle, to long of only 2wd operation, then the upper bearing fails, while one may think the lower bearing that bears the brunt of all load and shock would be the first to go,

So in older designs Dodge and International recognizing this potential used a brass bushing (Tapered) rides in the same bearing cup,

So it is advisable to operate the 4x4 mode, once in a while,
 
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Let me point out in all fairness that not all Toyota dealers will give you the wrong scoop,

Here is a fellow that got good advise from Toyota, unfortunatly he went to a mushroom factory on line and was,
well you know filled up. pumped full.

#1
doctorJ
Forum Regular



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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 107

Can't Service Birfields ?????
Went in to the local toyota dealer today to get some trim clips I broke trying to fix the leak in my front pillar (sunroof drain) and while I was their thought I would ge tan estimate on Birfield service everyone here seems to recommend on a newly purchased used vehicle (97FZJ80 with 99K). So I ask the service manager how much? He looks at me kinda funny - says you mean the front differential or the transfer case? I say NO - the big ends of the front axel where they connect to the wheel - the birfields? He says - let me go ask one of the mechanics..... comes back 5 minutes later and says they don't get maintinance service, they are "permasealed". They just fix them if they wear out or break! Am I missing the whole boat here, or should I just RUN AWAY from this Toyota service dept.????

Jay



No no dont run away Jay that is very good advise, the best I have ever seen or read,

If it aint broke dont fix it, leave the thing alone, if you open that thing up, for service the super secret black vodoo goop will be very hard to find,

If it aint broke dont fix it
 
Originally Posted By: Rix
The correct grease is very easy to find though.


No it took me 1 month to get in my shop,

Fuchs lubricants one of the only places in this entire country that have this type of grease,

Founded in the 1930,s still making grease for aerospace, appliances, and heavy industry ,

So very easy to find #2 moly based wheel bearing grease, but not what the worlds premier auto manufacture uses

plain and simple, and to top it all off Old Man Willies told them about it,
 
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That corn-head grease sounds just like every eternal lifetime cv joint grease. I've replaced enough cv boots over the years and can say what the new boot comes with is also different than what some CV joints were originally filled with. Sounds just like
SLIPKOTE POLYUREA CV-JOINT GREASE

And an ISO-220 sodium grease worth investigating:
Stalube Grease

IH8Mush, you could probably pick up the Stalube/crc sodium-short-fiber grease and compare it to what you're using. .

I'm going to hit Napa on Monday to see if they have any.
 
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
E-Rock,

Old man willies would not have used two types of grease for the same assembly


Your own source says you're wrong.

CJgrease.jpg
 
Part of the propblem with this situation is, that there is conflicting information in the older books as well,

Dodge books will, state in the same book, short fiber wheel bearing lube,
As well as multipurpose #2 grease,

Clearly two types of grease,

Now for Willies book, since on the page before he states that the wheel bearings are "filled" with a sodium grease, It is clear to me that since this is what the design of the axle dictates, lube flow thru spindle, that is what Jeep did,
Filled the wheel bearings with the same type and grade of grease,
Also one could say the wheel bearing #2 specification is for the 2wd model,
Since the page prior states to fill the wheel bearings in the application with the enclosed knuckle,

I know now why this has been such a confusing situation, the books do not always have clear information,
 
True to form E-Rock is "Obfuscating"

The main problem is that the Toyota FSM "recommends" a incompatible grease,.

The Jeep books may indicate a # 2 grease for the wheel bearings, but it is for the 2wd Clark Dispatcher axle,

It is just not very clear in the book,

Jeep does not recommend a incompatible base, warns you about it,
at the bottom of the page E-Rock posted,,,

This is the problem,,,,

All of the scans are posted on the4x4network, I would post them here but I do not know how,

This site is a battle zone, R rated for sure,

Be warned,

Now as far as the Drum brake "Only" application for this grease,

Why is that?, how was Toyota able to pull this off, I have studied this quite a bit and pondered as to why

This is why we are here on "BOB".... I have my theory but I need some input,,
 
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Now as far as the Drum brake "Only" application for this grease,

Why is that?, how was Toyota able to pull this off, I have studied this quite a bit and pondered as to why


They didn't.
The grease you are trying to sell is NOT what came in the toyota axles from the factory.
 
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
True to form E-Rock is "Obfuscating"


By showing that the actual reference material that you claim supports your position in fact proves you wrong? I am not in any way obscuring the truth. You will note that I actually provide links and references to the information I post rather than obscure uncited quotations from unreliable sources.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

The main problem is that the Toyota FSM "recommends" a incompatible grease,.


Incompatible with your goop, yes. But it is completely compatible and identical to what was originally installed at the factory.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

The Jeep books may indicate a # 2 grease for the wheel bearings, but it is for the 2wd Clark Dispatcher axle,

It is just not very clear in the book,


Umm, no. That chart is straight off the CJ2A/CJ3A lubrication page and is identical to the CJ3B/CJ5/CJ6 chart. It even has a picture right above the chart of a chassis that is CLEARLY 4wd with callout tags to the indicated lubrication locations.

Originally Posted By: IH8mush

Jeep does not recommend a incompatible base, warns you about it,
at the bottom of the page E-Rock posted,,,


Finally something you're right about. The Jeep manual says those points are filled with sodium grease from the factory and recommends sodium grease be used to avoid incompatibility.

The Toyota manuals for solid front axle vehicles over several decades, on the other hand, recommend a lithium-base grease. Owners and shops have been using that recommendation for several decades with no ill effects. But you still believe that Toyota put a sodium-base grease in there at the factory?
 
Originally Posted By: Rix
I think you're doing a good enough job of discrediting yourself, francis, but hey, what's another stick in the fire right?
This is what the grease that ACTUALLY comes in the knuckle of a fj80 landcruiser (and pickups, other landcruisers etc) looks like.
There is very slight gear oil contamination in this side, the other side was worse.

IMAG0051-1.jpg

IMAG0050-1.jpg

IMAG0049-1.jpg

IMAG0059.jpg





Rix,

What you are posting here as "Factory Grease"

Is by your diagnosis grease that has been contaminated by axle seal failure,

May I remind you of this, You posted pictures of this axle before you took it apart,
I stated that it did not look that bad as far as leakage,
You clearly pointed out the the cust complaint was leakage, drips from the lower trunnion cap,

Now you post this grease as factory, that you have diagnosed as axle seal failure,
While I can only look at the pictures, it does look like a #1 grade grease, which would be ok for a CV joint,
So if it is #2 grease with some gear oil in it, better as a lube for a CV joint,

while other reasons for oil at the lower trunnion cap could be oil separating out of the grease which happens, grease manufactures do tests and document this rate it as selling points

Or a incompatible grease was introduced, both of these possibilities are just as likely as axle seal failure,

Either way, you are showing contaminated grease by your diagnosis of the problem as factory

In a Rig From Haiti where E-rock works at a orphanage saving children
Yes Folks this is the Story,

A tangled web,
 
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