'The Light Of Bob"

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
Originally Posted By: IH8mush

"charge a customer to fix a problem engineered by toyota sales"



I need say no more.
_______

Rixxer,

Hide behind your salesmen as long as you want or can, but your posting a #1 grade grease as factory,

You proved the salesmen wrong, you just dont know it,,,,


Your lack of reading comprehension (or selective memory) doesn't make you any less incorrect, frank.



?

Rixxer, I have been reading and comprehending all of your posts,

It boils down to this, you posts pictures of a axle that has every appearance of having a #1 grade grease, to back the Toyota sales #2 recommendation,

All the while admitting, (So You think) that that grease has some gear oil contamination ?

How much, gear oil contamination?

Enough to turn it into a #1 grade,

 

[Rix]

Yes, frank.
Enough to thin it out just a little (compared to the stuff that the factory put in there) and change the color slightly.
While it's hard to see in the pictures, there's a bit of a muddy kinda greenish color. the same color is mirrored int he gear oil of axles that are having cross-contamination issues.
With no axle seal leakage (and therefor no cross-contamination) the gear oil looks like...... gear oil.

Now you need to keep in mind, this stuff is softer, thinner, whatever you want to say, than the wheel bearing stuff we use, which is also graded as a #2.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
Yes, frank.
Enough to thin it out just a little (compared to the stuff that the factory put in there) and change the color slightly.
While it's hard to see in the pictures, there's a bit of a muddy kinda greenish color. the same color is mirrored int he gear oil of axles that are having cross-contamination issues.
With no axle seal leakage (and therefor no cross-contamination) the gear oil looks like...... gear oil.

Now you need to keep in mind, this stuff is softer, thinner, whatever you want to say, than the wheel bearing stuff we use, which is also graded as a #2.




"Now you need to keep in mind, this stuff is softer, thinner, whatever you want to say, than the wheel bearing stuff we use, which is also graded as a #2."

This is what Chewbacca identified as a "Bad News situation"
being a "Master of the Obvious" 93 Chewbacca wants the same grease for the wheel bearings as the knuckle,

This is a real concern, beings the parts are not sealed from each other, one assembly,

Now I would have to some more reading but it is mentioned that even greases of the same base, can be incompatible with each other, maybee if the are "Complex" greases, but one of the grease charts mentioned this,

If any one can add to this please do so, a grey area for me not sure exactly

But Chewbacca is dead on wanting the same type of grease in the same assembly,
Not a thinner one in the knuckle as you mention and a #2 in the wheel bearings,

All one assembly, use the same grease, not two different types

Simply put, just asking for †rouble,

 

[IH8mush]

†he Light of Bob has prevailed,

Rixxer

Been a worthy adversary in this informational war, but admitting the knuckle grease is thinner than the #2 wheel bearing grease is a huge step down the scale,

Three things cannot be hidden for long †he Sun †he moon and

†he †ruth,

 

[Rix]

frank, it says #2 right on the tube.
Is CRC wrong?
Is the NLGI wrong?
Is castrol wrong? (castrol makes the wheel bearing grease we use)
At home I use mobil1 synthetic in wheel bearings. It says #2 on it too.
Is Mobil wrong?

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
frank, it says #2 right on the tube.
Is CRC wrong?
Is the NLGI wrong?
Is castrol wrong? (castrol makes the wheel bearing grease we use)
At home I use mobil1 synthetic in wheel bearings. It says #2 on it too.
Is Mobil wrong?


Rixxer, My Rixxer,

Let me refresh what we are talking about, Is it wrong to use #2 grease in a wheel bearing,

No

Is it wrong to use #2 grease in a CV joint, well not advisable
should never be used is what they say,

So to bring you back to the whole line of discussion Mr Chewbacca wants a grease that will lube the CV joint properly as well as the wheelbearings,

Because in this Solid axle it is all one and the same, now if you use a "Proper lubricant for the CV joint the likely hood of it traveling thru the wheel bearings thru the spindle is inevitable,

So since it is one entire assembly a CV joint, Trunnion Bearings Bushing, Wheel bearings,

ALL of it is lubed by a #1 or thinner lube,

To be a "Master of the Obvious" Rixxer you need to understand this aspect as does 93 Chewbacca,

It is one assembly from the little axle seal, all the way out to the hub dial, or cap if a full time unit,

Uses all the same grease, Do what you want but Toyota of Japan filled this thing with a semi fluid grease, #1 maybee in some applications,

This is simple fact, can be proven by the design, Sadly you cannot see it, do not know about not mixing greases, and blindly follow the outline given to you by Toyota Motor Sales,

I call you my Rixxer, you are going to be the First Toyota tech deprogrammed,

If you listen to folks like 93 Chewbacca, that identify the need for the same grease for the same assembly,

#2 grease if fine for wheel bearings, sure but not in a axle designed for fluid,

Will not , cannot get the same durability, the same longevity,

I have used the analogy before Toyota Motor Sales tells you guys to pour 140 W oil in a auto tranny,

Might move the rig, okay but not for as long, even if you change it out every 6 months,

Not utilizing it full potential,

And this is all aside from the fact that if you have this factory axle, full of the factory fluid, pack the wheel bearings with the recommended #2 lithium grease, the semi fluid migrates thru the spindle, from the knuckle, mixes with the lithium grease,

Causes oil separation

what has been happening to this axle has been on going grease compatibility tests,

Just like the real tests precentages of different greases are tested,

I will break it down for you,

Packing the Wheel bearings with lithuim grease and leaving the knuckle alone is a 75 % factory grease 25% lithium grease test,

packing the wheel bearings and adding to the knuckle, 50/ 50

This results in a chemical reaction between the bases, can no longer contain or hold the oil mixed into the greases, and leaks,,

There is a thread on MUSH called "How bad is this" showing pictures of these wiper seals puking out the thinned out mix due to incompatibility ,

Stay in the light Rixxer,

 

[Rix]

I'll repeat myself AGAIN.
I've been into untouched, unalterened, unmolested toyota front solid axles.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE A #0 NOR A SODIUM BASE GREASE.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE THE SAME GREASE IN THE WHEEL BEARINGS AS IN THE STEERING KNUCKLE.

You are not swaying me, frank, nor will you. You're wrong, plain and simple. I have 15 years of experience working on toyotas. I can tell with 100% certainty you are wrong.
Stop trying to tell me I'm "confused" or "being fooled by salesmen", as that is NOT the case.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
I'll repeat myself AGAIN.
I've been into untouched, unalterened, unmolested toyota front solid axles.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE A #0 NOR A SODIUM BASE GREASE.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE THE SAME GREASE IN THE WHEEL BEARINGS AS IN THE STEERING KNUCKLE.

You are not swaying me, frank, nor will you. You're wrong, plain and simple. I have 15 years of experience working on toyotas. I can tell with 100% certainty you are wrong.
Stop trying to tell me I'm "confused" or "being fooled by salesmen", as that is NOT the case.



Uh huh sure Rixxer sure,

Talk to Mr 93 Chewbacca, Identified something you havent in your 15 years,

Maybee Bad lighting in your shop ?

I am 100 % sure your are brainwashed, by Toyota Motor Sales,

This can be proven by the design of the axle that tell you to use a incompatible incorrect form of grease,

And since your 100% brainwashed, indoctrinated , you follow without question,

Need better lighting in your shop Rixxer,

And it is here on "Bob"

 

[ltslimjim]

You guys are funny.

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Originally Posted By: Rix
I'll repeat myself AGAIN.
I've been into untouched, unalterened, unmolested toyota front solid axles.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE A #0 NOR A SODIUM BASE GREASE.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE THE SAME GREASE IN THE WHEEL BEARINGS AS IN THE STEERING KNUCKLE.

You are not swaying me, frank, nor will you. You're wrong, plain and simple. I have 15 years of experience working on toyotas. I can tell with 100% certainty you are wrong.
Stop trying to tell me I'm "confused" or "being fooled by salesmen", as that is NOT the case.



Uh huh sure Rixxer sure,

Talk to Mr 93 Chewbacca, Identified something you havent in your 15 years,

Maybee Bad lighting in your shop ?

I am 100 % sure your are brainwashed, by Toyota Motor Sales,

This can be proven by the design of the axle that tell you to use a incompatible incorrect form of grease,

And since your 100% brainwashed, indoctrinated , you follow without question,

Need better lighting in your shop Rixxer,

And it is here on "Bob"





Who brainwashed me frank? Me? My own 2 eyes?
Sorry, but no.
There is no conspiracy frank, there is only you being wrong.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
Originally Posted By: Rix
I'll repeat myself AGAIN.
I've been into untouched, unalterened, unmolested toyota front solid axles.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE A #0 NOR A SODIUM BASE GREASE.
FROM THE FACTORY, THEY DID NOT USE THE SAME GREASE IN THE WHEEL BEARINGS AS IN THE STEERING KNUCKLE.

You are not swaying me, frank, nor will you. You're wrong, plain and simple. I have 15 years of experience working on toyotas. I can tell with 100% certainty you are wrong.
Stop trying to tell me I'm "confused" or "being fooled by salesmen", as that is NOT the case.



Uh huh sure Rixxer sure,

Talk to Mr 93 Chewbacca, Identified something you havent in your 15 years,

Maybee Bad lighting in your shop ?

I am 100 % sure your are brainwashed, by Toyota Motor Sales,

This can be proven by the design of the axle that tell you to use a incompatible incorrect form of grease,

And since your 100% brainwashed, indoctrinated , you follow without question,

Need better lighting in your shop Rixxer,

And it is here on "Bob"





Who brainwashed me frank? Me? My own 2 eyes?
Sorry, but no.
There is no conspiracy frank, there is only you being wrong.


Who Brain Washed you ?

Toyota Motor sales, as I told you Mr Inaba is responsible to Toyota motor sales,

There is no conspiracy, no none

What there is a incompatible incorrect grade recommendation in the Toyota FSM

If you feel it to be a "Conspiracy" Ok you can, it is just plain sick and wrong to recommend a incompatible grease,

Conspiracy is to mild of a word, I would use something more, um Direct,

But as far as Who,,? Mr Inaba is responsible for Toyota Motor Sales

 

[IH8mush]

"Stop trying to tell me I'm "confused" or "being fooled by salesmen", as that is NOT the case."

Rixxer,

This is the case, I was unsure until you posted the book, that said Toyota Motor Sales on the cover,

I researched Toyota Motor Sales, and found out that is entirely separate company that Toyota Motor Corporation,

Then it made sense, Toyota Motor Corp, fills these things with a semifluid grease

Toyota Motor sales recommends a #2

Recommends, advise or suggestion is what that means,

So your taking the advise of Toyota Sales, on grease,

Makes absolute perfect sense for me that a Toyota sales man may not know anything about grease,

Heck as a mechanic up until 2 years ago I knew nothing about it either,,,

So Rixxer stick around the light of "Bob" and I am sure a few more "Mr Chewbaccas " will explain the need for all the same grease in the same assembly,

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
You guys are funny.


This is not funny one stinking bit my good amzoil pal,

A group of Sales engineers got together, ( yes sales engineers)

there is such a thing, you need a regular engineering degree, and recommend a grease that is incompatible,

Not funny,

Do not just swing by and laugh, this is not a dog and pony show for you to draw entertainment,

Add some technical input,

This is a deprogramming a sadly confused brainwashed Toyota tech educated by sales men,

 

[Rix]

Incompatibility doesn't have a thing to do with it.
I'm sure there could be a case of that here and there, for the simple fact that people do strange things to cars sometimes.
But in the end, when the things are worked on, ALL the grease is replaced, but the seal isn't replaced, the gear oil gets into the knuckles, and it looks EXACTLY the same after a while.

No, frank, you're theory is wrong, and the grease you are trying to sell, with NO technical info on it, by the way, is not the same as the factory used. Sorry.

 

[rshunter]

I just can't take it any more...

If anyone wants to know who is completely full of it, regarding the use of #2 grease in constant-velocity joints, just do a web search for, "NLGI Grade #2 CV joint grease".

Someone, for God's sake, stick a fork in this line of bull.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
I just can't take it any more...

If anyone wants to know who is completely full of it, regarding the use of #2 grease in constant-velocity joints, just do a web search for, "NLGI Grade #2 CV joint grease".

Someone, for God's sake, stick a fork in this line of bull.



Do your web search, There are greases of #2 grade that are recommended for CV joints,

Redline to name one,

This is aftermarket,

The WHOLE entire Topic of discussion is "Factory Type" CV joint grease,

NEVER is it #2 grade,

Information from CV joint School part 1 indicates that a regular wheelbearing or multipurpose grease should "NEVER" be used in a CV joint,

So now Outfits like Red line can evidently take "Organic Calcium Based Red Moly grease" with a 900 * drop point and get it to last in a CV joint,

of a #2 grade, but that for sure is not a regular wheel bearing grease,

Now I called Red line talked to a rep, he told me on no uncertain terms that comparing this "Organic Calcium Based Red Moly grease" with a 900 * drop point

To a lithium based #2 Regular black moly grease as listed in the Toyota FSM

As apples and oranges,

As far as what the aftermarket comes up with, dont care, factory lubrication thats proven to last on a average of 20 years for a conventional rubber booted joint, and 30 for this steel booted solid axle is

A #1 grade or thinner,,

Factory lubrication, aftermarket can go fly a kite, because they do not even give you the correct grade of grease in the kits for a inboard boot,

The stuff works but not ideal

And like I have been told many many times, information about grease on the internet is not always accurate,

 

[IH8mush]

'93 Eurovan CL, '99 Eurovan GLS, '00 Golf GLS TDI, '06 Raider DuroCross V8 Ext, '08 GTI DSG


Also I see your partial to the German Rigs,

Well guess What BENZ, Barvian Motor Works, Rigs like that

A oil in a CV joint,,,

They have a fancy name for them to, homokinetic

A oil, and if you do any research at all, this form of lubrication is preferable for one reason mainly over grease

A higher resistance to "Oxidation"

So pop a axle out of one of those Farfromgroving piles and poke at the CV boot, a #1 or thinner lube will come oozing out of it,

That is your web search that will give you the correct info,,,

 

[IH8mush]

So pop a axle out of one of those Farfromgroving piles,

I am sorry this is the wrong "term"

The axles on your pile bolt on, use a bit similar to a torx just more splines, about 12 I think,

Unbolt your axle,

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
Incompatibility doesn't have a thing to do with it.
I'm sure there could be a case of that here and there, for the simple fact that people do strange things to cars sometimes.
But in the end, when the things are worked on, ALL the grease is replaced, but the seal isn't replaced, the gear oil gets into the knuckles, and it looks EXACTLY the same after a while.

No, frank, you're theory is wrong, and the grease you are trying to sell, with NO technical info on it, by the way, is not the same as the factory used. Sorry.


Rixxer, My Dear Rixxer,

Compatibility has everything to do with it, what is practiced at most shops is when of vehicle with serviceable wheelbearings is in for a brake job, the wheel bearings get packed,

Common practice, Rotor is turned, Wheel bearings are repacked,

Now aside from a "Few Factory Toyota techs" this semi fluid grease is not even recognized, thought to be old grease, or grease with water in it, or not even looked at or identified,

Out it goes, and in goes what is pretty much used in all mechanic shops, in this country, a lithium based grease,

Now a factory trained Toyota tech will identify this as axle seal failure, and sure then the whole mess gets torn down and the little seal replaced, blamed for this goo,

This is what happened to the 1988 Toyota LC I worked on , only the wheel bearings where repacked,

The viscous lube then works it way thru the spindle and "Attacks" the intruding grease placed there by a unsuspecting, mechanix/owner,

Yes this is how one Toyota owner put it and accurately the "Moly grease" invaded the grease I had packed into the wheelbearings and washed it out,,,

Well yes, this "Moly grease" as it is known is a highly mobile attack force, Hides in the knuckle, will not really move unless things are moving, a incompatible grease is introduced,
Goes down the road mixes up in there and

causes leakage, the #1 main complaint with this axle

Leaks sometimes thru the hub dial, a area that can easily contain 140 W oil,

But the base oil of a grease can be thin thin as 10W

And of course out the wiper seal,,,

The little seal is not the cause Rixxer, if in fact the seal is leaking look towards a worn bushing as the cause,

This is common , folks all the time have a leaking frt pump seal on a tranny, the bushing is worn causing to much deflection
Replace the seal still have the leak,

While sure a seal can go hard over time and leak, or some other damage, but no this little seal, inside protected for the most part is not †he cause,

Cause and effect Rixxer,

Need to identify the cause,

 

[rshunter]

Well, at least we've established that you've got more in common with a donkey than just being obstinate...