The Gulf oil spill
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
It is tough to hear these comments from longtime friends and people I have had many conversations with but I can appreciate them.
I know you work in the oil industry Bryan, but when the CEO of BP says the leak is "relatively small" compared to the size of the gulf and comes out claiming the US is litigious and that many lawsuits against BP will be frivolous? It's blatantly obvious to me that BP only cares about saving the well and it's bottom line. The evidence is clear that they, along with Transocean, were negligent in the operation of the Deepwater Horrizon.
I have nothing against the oil industry, but I can not stand blatant negligence and greed, along with corruption. Seems to me that's all we have up to this point with BP.
How it is being handled, IMO is too slow and dangerous, however, what part of what the CEO said is NOT true? Are you inferring that there will not be frivolous lawsuits? lol. There will be too many. And the "Lawyer's monopoly" will be leading the way - raking in hundreds of millions in fees for every few hundreds of thousands that is paid out.
Of course there will be frivolous lawsuits! It's the fact that the CEOs first response to litigation towards the matter was to claim the US is a quote "litigious society" and that all non-frivolous suits would be settled. That just reeks of "I don't give a darn" about causing the biggest man made disaster in US history.
BP should be sued out of business over this incident.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
It is tough to hear these comments from longtime friends and people I have had many conversations with but I can appreciate them.
I know you work in the oil industry Bryan, but when the CEO of BP says the leak is "relatively small" compared to the size of the gulf and comes out claiming the US is litigious and that many lawsuits against BP will be frivolous? It's blatantly obvious to me that BP only cares about saving the well and it's bottom line. The evidence is clear that they, along with Transocean, were negligent in the operation of the Deepwater Horrizon.
I have nothing against the oil industry, but I can not stand blatant negligence and greed, along with corruption. Seems to me that's all we have up to this point with BP.
How it is being handled, IMO is too slow and dangerous, however, what part of what the CEO said is NOT true? Are you inferring that there will not be frivolous lawsuits? lol. There will be too many. And the "Lawyer's monopoly" will be leading the way - raking in hundreds of millions in fees for every few hundreds of thousands that is paid out.
Of course there will be frivolous lawsuits! It's the fact that the CEOs first response to litigation towards the matter was to claim the US is a quote "litigious society" and that all non-frivolous suits would be settled. That just reeks of "I don't give a darn" about causing the biggest man made disaster in US history.
BP should be sued out of business over this incident.
I think this is a healthy discussion....politics and all. What better forum than BITOG to have a discussion about oil?
I believe we're on the precipice of major changes in the way we live, which is a good thing.
To me, this is a turning point very much like the civil war was...a new industrial revolution. If you think about it, we are facing the same problem....energy. The civil war was largely fought over slavery, which is a form of energy. I guess we could go back to that but I don't think most people want to.
The south had to have a way of producing their products, mostly agricultural, and the only way they could do that in volume, comfortably, was by way of slaves and livestock. Once the slaves were out of play, steam power, then development of the internal combustion engine, and many inventions using it, advanced to replace them.
Basically, the same thing is happening now. Our slave has been fossil fuel and we now must find an alternative to it. There are infinite numbers of ways to produce energy. We've only discovered a few and haven't perfected any of them but we will, we will because there is a finite volume of oil down there.....it will get used up sooner or later.
First we need to find ways to reduce our consumption. I'm trying but have a long way to go. My truck now sits in the yard unless I need it to haul something. It has been replaced by a car that gets over thirty MPG and my truck hates me for it....I'll do better in time....how about you?
I believe we're on the precipice of major changes in the way we live, which is a good thing.
To me, this is a turning point very much like the civil war was...a new industrial revolution. If you think about it, we are facing the same problem....energy. The civil war was largely fought over slavery, which is a form of energy. I guess we could go back to that but I don't think most people want to.
The south had to have a way of producing their products, mostly agricultural, and the only way they could do that in volume, comfortably, was by way of slaves and livestock. Once the slaves were out of play, steam power, then development of the internal combustion engine, and many inventions using it, advanced to replace them.
Basically, the same thing is happening now. Our slave has been fossil fuel and we now must find an alternative to it. There are infinite numbers of ways to produce energy. We've only discovered a few and haven't perfected any of them but we will, we will because there is a finite volume of oil down there.....it will get used up sooner or later.
First we need to find ways to reduce our consumption. I'm trying but have a long way to go. My truck now sits in the yard unless I need it to haul something. It has been replaced by a car that gets over thirty MPG and my truck hates me for it....I'll do better in time....how about you?
Originally Posted By: suspiciousmind
I think this is a healthy discussion....politics and all. What better forum than BITOG to have a discussion about oil?
I believe we're on the precipice of major changes in the way we live, which is a good thing.
To me, this is a turning point very much like the civil war was...a new industrial revolution. If you think about it, we are facing the same problem....energy. The civil war was largely fought over slavery, which is a form of energy. I guess we could go back to that but I don't think most people want to.
The south had to have a way of producing their products, mostly agricultural, and the only way they could do that in volume, comfortably, was by way of slaves and livestock. Once the slaves were out of play, steam power, then development of the internal combustion engine, and many inventions using it, advanced to replace them.
Basically, the same thing is happening now. Our slave has been fossil fuel and we now must find an alternative to it. There are infinite numbers of ways to produce energy. We've only discovered a few and haven't perfected any of them but we will, we will because there is a finite volume of oil down there.....it will get used up sooner or later.
First we need to find ways to reduce our consumption. I'm trying but have a long way to go. My truck now sits in the yard unless I need it to haul something. It has been replaced by a car that gets over thirty MPG and my truck hates me for it....I'll do better in time....how about you?
Well said. We are all too dependent on oil, even to claim that "there is no other way than oil". What happened to running, walking, living closer to work, etc?
We should be saving the oil for essential forms of transportation, such as shipping things, etc. Too many of us drive down the street just to pick up something fom 7-11.. in a way, we are all slightly responsible for what happened.. less demand, less drilling.
I find it ironic that I can go to jail for pouring used oil down the drain...but.. BP? What will happen to them?
I think this is a healthy discussion....politics and all. What better forum than BITOG to have a discussion about oil?
I believe we're on the precipice of major changes in the way we live, which is a good thing.
To me, this is a turning point very much like the civil war was...a new industrial revolution. If you think about it, we are facing the same problem....energy. The civil war was largely fought over slavery, which is a form of energy. I guess we could go back to that but I don't think most people want to.
The south had to have a way of producing their products, mostly agricultural, and the only way they could do that in volume, comfortably, was by way of slaves and livestock. Once the slaves were out of play, steam power, then development of the internal combustion engine, and many inventions using it, advanced to replace them.
Basically, the same thing is happening now. Our slave has been fossil fuel and we now must find an alternative to it. There are infinite numbers of ways to produce energy. We've only discovered a few and haven't perfected any of them but we will, we will because there is a finite volume of oil down there.....it will get used up sooner or later.
First we need to find ways to reduce our consumption. I'm trying but have a long way to go. My truck now sits in the yard unless I need it to haul something. It has been replaced by a car that gets over thirty MPG and my truck hates me for it....I'll do better in time....how about you?
Well said. We are all too dependent on oil, even to claim that "there is no other way than oil". What happened to running, walking, living closer to work, etc?
We should be saving the oil for essential forms of transportation, such as shipping things, etc. Too many of us drive down the street just to pick up something fom 7-11.. in a way, we are all slightly responsible for what happened.. less demand, less drilling.
I find it ironic that I can go to jail for pouring used oil down the drain...but.. BP? What will happen to them?
A willful act vs an accident.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: brandini
I want my [censored] electric car already!
Electric powered vehicles will never replace oil.
Bill
Never say never. Could you have imagined 15 years ago when the cost of oil was at an low, at the thought of a Hybrid? Imagine if someone told you that in the future, we'd be driving 1/2 electric, 1/2 gasoline. You'd never believe it.
The electric car is possible. We saw it with the Chevrolet EV1, but oil companies quietly pulled the plug on it.
As far your question as to where all the electricity would come from, there are plenty of ways electricity could be generated. It would be kind of off topic to get into all of that... a whole new can of worms as this thread is about the oil spill, but an electricity infrastructure is entirely possible. Actually, a lot of the infrastructure is already here.
The next step is the plug in electric hybrid car.
Originally Posted By: brandini
I want my [censored] electric car already!
Electric powered vehicles will never replace oil.
Bill
Never say never. Could you have imagined 15 years ago when the cost of oil was at an low, at the thought of a Hybrid? Imagine if someone told you that in the future, we'd be driving 1/2 electric, 1/2 gasoline. You'd never believe it.
The electric car is possible. We saw it with the Chevrolet EV1, but oil companies quietly pulled the plug on it.
As far your question as to where all the electricity would come from, there are plenty of ways electricity could be generated. It would be kind of off topic to get into all of that... a whole new can of worms as this thread is about the oil spill, but an electricity infrastructure is entirely possible. Actually, a lot of the infrastructure is already here.
The next step is the plug in electric hybrid car.
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Originally Posted By: tenderloin
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
Don't know yet...neither do you. Just because one supports drilling and oil UNTIL real alternatives can be discovered and up and running....does not mean they want to pollute or are happy with not only what has happened in the gulf or the response to date from BP and the US government.
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
Don't know yet...neither do you. Just because one supports drilling and oil UNTIL real alternatives can be discovered and up and running....does not mean they want to pollute or are happy with not only what has happened in the gulf or the response to date from BP and the US government.
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We all demand our pound of flesh.
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
Don't know...neither do you.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/05/10/oil_spill_causes_climate_progress
If I had to guess..
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
A willful act vs an accident.
An accident? Or company negligence?
Don't know...neither do you.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/05/10/oil_spill_causes_climate_progress
If I had to guess..
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
We all demand our pound of flesh.
In this case.. pretty valid, is it not? What could a company do that would be worse? They've ruined people's livelihoods, and the environmental impact is pretty staggering.
BP is not being particularly transparent about details.. first about the amount of leakage, which many experts disagree on.
Oh well, we agree to disagree. BP has enough problems on their hand anyway.
We all demand our pound of flesh.
In this case.. pretty valid, is it not? What could a company do that would be worse? They've ruined people's livelihoods, and the environmental impact is pretty staggering.
BP is not being particularly transparent about details.. first about the amount of leakage, which many experts disagree on.
Oh well, we agree to disagree. BP has enough problems on their hand anyway.
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Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
I find it ironic that I can go to jail for pouring used oil down the drain...but.. BP? What will happen to them?
I keep thinking the same thing....I have a five gallon galvanized can, that belonged to my grandfather, that I collect my used oil in.
I'm careful not to spill a drop between putting the oil in the car till I take it to recycle....been doing this for many years. All that effort multiplied millions of times over cancelled out.
I find it ironic that I can go to jail for pouring used oil down the drain...but.. BP? What will happen to them?
I keep thinking the same thing....I have a five gallon galvanized can, that belonged to my grandfather, that I collect my used oil in.
I'm careful not to spill a drop between putting the oil in the car till I take it to recycle....been doing this for many years. All that effort multiplied millions of times over cancelled out.
One of the first barrier islands to be have oil reach them west of the Mississippi was Whiskey Island south of Terrebonne Bay part of the Isle Deniers (last islands). I have fished that area out of Dulac, La and spent time wading, fishing, and taking pictures from the south facing shores of Whiskey Island. It is an isolated and beautiful place. After I saw the pictures of the fouled beach I have walked on much of the banter about the disaster online and in the media sounded like nothing more than talking point echoes. Almost like the echoes of the terns and gulls at the beach there, if they survive.
Two brief reports that did catch my eye indicated that for now the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port (LOOP) is not threatened by the spill. Yet. It is where a great deal of imported oil is offloaded and shipped to refineries in Louisiana and Texas. The other report also indicated that Port Fourchon is also unaffected so far. This port services about a third of all ofshore drilling activities in the Gulf. Take these two locations out of America's energy equation and it becomes less of an academic discussion and much more up close and personal. Like my memories of Whiskey Island.
Two brief reports that did catch my eye indicated that for now the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port (LOOP) is not threatened by the spill. Yet. It is where a great deal of imported oil is offloaded and shipped to refineries in Louisiana and Texas. The other report also indicated that Port Fourchon is also unaffected so far. This port services about a third of all ofshore drilling activities in the Gulf. Take these two locations out of America's energy equation and it becomes less of an academic discussion and much more up close and personal. Like my memories of Whiskey Island.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Remember this is the real world. Wind and solar will never be our main source for power at TODAYS levels.
Actually, Iowa gets about 20% of it's electricity from wind energy. Mid American Energy has a goal of somewhere around 50% in the next few years. I can easily see in 20 years wind being the prime source of electricity in Iowa, with coal/natural gas/nuclear supplying electricity only on rare occasions. Since electricity can be moved around the grid, if it's not windy in a specific area other areas are able to make up the difference.
In the area where we live we're already at the 50% or better mark for wind energy, and might even be close to 100% by now. We're a couple miles from a wind farm and in the past Mid American Energy has sent map handouts with the bill telling us our approximate wind energy percentage.
If I were to purchase an electric vehicle, it would probably be recharged primarily using wind energy.
And we're doing it while maintaining some of the lowest electric utility rates in the country.
Remember this is the real world. Wind and solar will never be our main source for power at TODAYS levels.
Actually, Iowa gets about 20% of it's electricity from wind energy. Mid American Energy has a goal of somewhere around 50% in the next few years. I can easily see in 20 years wind being the prime source of electricity in Iowa, with coal/natural gas/nuclear supplying electricity only on rare occasions. Since electricity can be moved around the grid, if it's not windy in a specific area other areas are able to make up the difference.
In the area where we live we're already at the 50% or better mark for wind energy, and might even be close to 100% by now. We're a couple miles from a wind farm and in the past Mid American Energy has sent map handouts with the bill telling us our approximate wind energy percentage.
If I were to purchase an electric vehicle, it would probably be recharged primarily using wind energy.
And we're doing it while maintaining some of the lowest electric utility rates in the country.
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Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Oh well, we agree to disagree. BP has enough problems on their hand anyway.
My comment was not in conflict with anyone. It's an observation of human behavior. When something bad happens, someone has to be blamed and punished.
Let me give an example. A SEPTA train blew it on some signals which resulted in a crash. Many injuries and whatnot. The operator was found to have pot in his system. They never bothered with showing a link to the crash with usage. It was just that something bad happened and they could easily latch on to that low hanging fruit.
Cop responding to armed robbery call (lights flashing). Kid runs out in the road. Cop kills him . Dept finds one unrelated violation of policy in that event chain and fires him.
It's sorta along the lines of supervisors and service dept managers when something goes wrong.
"Did you do anything different this time?" Translated "Can I get you to, with your own words, give me something so that I can hang this around your neck?"
Whatever "it" is ..."THAT'S IT!!!".
There will be legions of investigators on this whole thing that will be actively seeking NOT the cause of this spill, but will be charged with accumulating as much evidence of things "unright" to stack on to whatever response CAN be leveraged against BP.
Oh well, we agree to disagree. BP has enough problems on their hand anyway.
My comment was not in conflict with anyone. It's an observation of human behavior. When something bad happens, someone has to be blamed and punished.
Let me give an example. A SEPTA train blew it on some signals which resulted in a crash. Many injuries and whatnot. The operator was found to have pot in his system. They never bothered with showing a link to the crash with usage. It was just that something bad happened and they could easily latch on to that low hanging fruit.
Cop responding to armed robbery call (lights flashing). Kid runs out in the road. Cop kills him . Dept finds one unrelated violation of policy in that event chain and fires him.
It's sorta along the lines of supervisors and service dept managers when something goes wrong.
"Did you do anything different this time?" Translated "Can I get you to, with your own words, give me something so that I can hang this around your neck?"
Whatever "it" is ..."THAT'S IT!!!".
There will be legions of investigators on this whole thing that will be actively seeking NOT the cause of this spill, but will be charged with accumulating as much evidence of things "unright" to stack on to whatever response CAN be leveraged against BP.
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
We are all too dependent on oil, even to claim that "there is no other way than oil". What happened to running, walking, living closer to work, etc?
I would love to live close to work. And I will move my family there as soon as everyone in the city stops robbing, murdering and raping everyone. Until then I will continue to live out in the country and commute to work.
We are all too dependent on oil, even to claim that "there is no other way than oil". What happened to running, walking, living closer to work, etc?
I would love to live close to work. And I will move my family there as soon as everyone in the city stops robbing, murdering and raping everyone. Until then I will continue to live out in the country and commute to work.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Many more people killed this year from accidents from Coal than ever from a oil rig. And if you ask some "experts" more "damage" with electric power than anything oil.
More this year from coal than EVER from oil ?
Got some stats to back that up Bill ?
BTW, I also believe that at the current point, electric cars and the hydrogen economy are wasteful boondoggles.
Many more people killed this year from accidents from Coal than ever from a oil rig. And if you ask some "experts" more "damage" with electric power than anything oil.
More this year from coal than EVER from oil ?
Got some stats to back that up Bill ?
BTW, I also believe that at the current point, electric cars and the hydrogen economy are wasteful boondoggles.
Bill in Utah is correct, our grid today does not have the capacity to charge electric vehicle if even 10% of the household charge them everyday.
The battery environmental impact isn't that big of a problem. Lead is a lot worse but we still use them and recycle them. Nobody say you have to throw away the Nickel and Lithium when you are done, and even if you do, they are not as toxic as lead or used oil.
Now if we can reduce vehicle weight and improve fuel cell to a point of using natural gas instead of compressed/liquid hydrogen, then we are in business.
The battery environmental impact isn't that big of a problem. Lead is a lot worse but we still use them and recycle them. Nobody say you have to throw away the Nickel and Lithium when you are done, and even if you do, they are not as toxic as lead or used oil.
Now if we can reduce vehicle weight and improve fuel cell to a point of using natural gas instead of compressed/liquid hydrogen, then we are in business.
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