The Gulf oil spill

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Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: Liquid_Turbo
Drill, baby drill!


with this BP oil spill fiasco, that comment will come back to haunt her


Why? You planning on not using oil products over the next 20 years or so?
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
This is what de-regulation gets you. Welcome to the myth of the "free" market.


That's about the most STUPID comment I've read in a LONG time, and I've read some idiotic junk on BITOG.

There really wasn't much free market about this. Nope, just another failure by trusting in regulations to "protect us".


And less regulation would provide just how many safety improvements ?

Or are you suggesting that everyone sue BP into oblivion, as is their right if they or their own finances have been harmed, so that other players see doing the right thing as good business rather than just an inconvenience to be managed at the minimum cost ?
 
wow. TWC just showed a vid from BP. Oil is going EVERYWHERE. What the [censored] was BP thinking to releace a vid like that that, to me, makes me think there complete [censored]. How hard would it be to EVEN TRY to fix all of them?
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


And less regulation would provide just how many safety improvements ?

Or are you suggesting that everyone sue BP into oblivion, as is their right if they or their own finances have been harmed, so that other players see doing the right thing as good business rather than just an inconvenience to be managed at the minimum cost ?


I'm not saying anything of the kind, but blaming the "free market" for an oil spill is crazy. So BP just set up and started drilling, no permits, no controls, no rules, no government inspection? It's as if saying a state owned oil company would NEVER have an oil spill.

Trust me, I'm not defending BP. Sounds like they were primed for something bad.
 
Im so [censored] at this oil spill. I know that mistakes happen but In this case I find it negligence on BP's side caused this. The seemed to want to salvage the spill more than cap it if you ask me.

I planned my FIRST family vaction for June 5th this year WAY before the oil spill happened. Destination: Mobile AL, going a a cruise for 5 days from there. Then a week in New Orleans to enjoy the "local seafood". I am positive things will be worse from Jne 5th -14th than they are now.

Yes I am [censored] that my vaction is ruined but that is just an inconvience compared to peoples lively hoods that are being changed

Some thingsBP does not want you to know:

1. Looking out for numero uno

BP's announcement that they're taking responsibility for the response to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, not for the accident, sounds more like they're patting themselves on the back. BP CEO Tony Hayward said Monday they are dealing with the cleanup and compensation to those affected, and while they have been dealing with it, their initial efforts also highlight that they're ultimately looking out for themselves. The company offered settlements to coastal residents of no more than $5,000 if they give up their right to sue. This extends to out-of-work fisherman they've hired to help with the clean up. BP has since removed the language from the contract, once they were criticized for the move. They also initially attempted to downplay the seriousness of the the spill, saying the rig was leaking 1,000 barrels a day when in fact it was leaking five times as much.

2. BP's green logo and multimillion-dollar green rebranding are meant to fit in with the company's motto of going "beyond petroleum." But this has just distracted from years of a horrible environmental record. In 2007, a customer survey found that BP had the most environmentally-friendly image of any major oil company. But even back in 2006, their greenwashing game was apparent-- Guardian analysis found that their green campaign overemphasizes their investments in alternative forms of energy, when those investments are just a blip on their history of huge investments in and profits from fossil fuel energy. In the first quarter of 2010, they made $73 billion in revenue, $72.3 billion of that came from the exploration, production, refining and marketing of oil and natural gas. Only $700 million came from solar and wind energy.

3. Long history of disaster.
A ProPublica report last week chronicles BP's involvement in some of the biggest oil and gas disasters of the past five years due to their negligence. In 2005, an explosion at BP's Texas oil refinery left 15 workers dead and injured 170 others. The cause? BP had ignored its own safety regulations and left a warning system disabled. In 2006, 267,000 gallons of crude oil spread onto the tundra of Alaska's Prudhoe Bay due to a tiny hole in the company's pipeline. The company had been told to check the pipeline in 2002, but ignored the warning. The spill was not even discovered until five days after it occurred, and was the largest in the region's history. The list goes on.

4. Ignoring possibility of a spill
BP filed a 52-page plan with the Minerals Management Service for the Deepwater Horizon well, outlining its explorations and environmental impact. The company concluded that it was unlikely, or virtually impossible, for an accident to occur from its activities that would lead to serious damage to beaches, fish, mammals and fisheries. According to an AP report, BP repeatedly stresses that it was "unlikely that an accidental surface or subsurface oil spill would occur from the proposed activities." Though they concede that a spill would impact all the aforementioned areas, it argues that "due to the distance to shore (48 miles) and the response capabilities that would be implemented, no significant adverse impacts are expected."

5. Fought against safety regulations.
Just last fall, BP fought off safety regulations, continuing with business as usual. In a September 14, 2009 letter to MMS, Richard Morrison, BP vice president for Gulf of Mexico production, fought against an MMS proposal that would require operators to have their safety program audited at least once every three years, instead of the voluntary system that is currently in place. Morrison wrote: "We are not supportive of the extensive, prescriptive regulations as proposed in this rule. ... [the voluntary programs] have been and continue to be very successful." MMS has estimated that the proposed rules would cost operators about $4.59 million in startup costs and $8 million in annual recurring costs.

A Wall Street Journal report also found that BP's oil well in the Gulf of Mexico did not have a remote-control shut-off switch that is used by two other oil-producing nations as a last-resort safeguard against underwater spills. The device is voluntary in the U.S., and while it is not clear whether it could have prevented the spill, it is another indicator of BP's lax safety measures and proclivity for convenience over caution.


6. Millions in fines but profit is still rising
BP has proven time and time again that they'd rather pay off their mistakes rather than take steps to prevent them. They have paid $485 million in fines in the U.S. alone in the past five years. BP paid $87.43 million to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration in October 2009 -- the largest fine in OSHA's history -- for the Texas refinery explosion. They paid an additional $50 million to the Department of Justice for the same explosion. Last month, BP paid $3 million to OSHA for 42 safety violations at an Ohio refinery. The company was also fined $20 million by the Department of Justice for the Alaska Prudhoe Bay spill (pictured), which violated the Clean Water Act.

Mother Jones' Kate Sheppard notes that all this is pocket change compared to the company's $5.65 billion in profits in just the first quarter of this year, up 135 percent from last year. According to CNBC, while this increase in profit does have to do with an increase in oil prices, it is also due to the company's extensive cost-cutting.

7. Human and Enviromental violations
In 2006, BP made a multimillion pound payout to Colombian farmers after being accused of benefiting from a regime of terror carried out by the Colombian government paramilitaries to protect their 450-mile pipeline. 1,000 farmers and their family members, working on 52 farms, were affected by the development and said they were pushed into surrounding towns, forced into lives of destitution due to the development.

BP's recent involvement in the Canadian tar sand development has also stirred controversy for both its human rights and environmental violations. Eriel Tchekwie Deranger, from Fort Chipewyan, which is a center of the tar sand development, told the Guardian: "It is destroying the ancient boreal forest, spreading open-pit mining across our territories, contaminating our food and water with toxins, disrupting local wildlife and threatening our way of life." Many fear the development is risking the lives of locals, increasing the likelihood of cancer. Furthermore, the project would release enough carbon in total to tip the world into unstoppable climate change.

A Guardian analysis the day after the Gulf oil spill details how BP shareholders turned a blind eye to the myriad problems with BP's Canadian tar sand development in a shareholders meeting on April 15, which was a prime opportunity for them to demand transparency. Instead, they chose ignorance, allowing BP to carry on with its actions without any accountability.


This lists go on and on.
 
A BP next to my house is very empty these days while other gas stations are jammed. I think it is a statement. But are other oil companies any better?

John
 
Yes they are. NYTimes had an article with safety comparisons and ExxonMobil is #1 by far. I get gas from them or Shell for quality and safety reasons. Also because I don't seem to have any chains that carry more US oil.

I want my [censored] electric car already!
 
Originally Posted By: brandini


I want my [censored] electric car already!


And where does that power come from?
whistle.gif


Many more people killed this year from accidents from Coal than ever from a oil rig. And if you ask some "experts" more "damage" with electric power than anything oil.

Electric powered vehicles will never replace oil. Plus wait till some accidents and we will have all the hand ringing from the "safety experts"...

Don't SHOOT the messenger!

Bill
 
Okay folks.

Gotten VALID complaints about this thread going off topic as far as "you betcha".

I'd LOVE to keep this as our main thread on the oil spill and how BP is/is not doing things. Also how its going to effect the industry and such.

Thanks in advance!

Bill
 
It comes from the solar panel in my buddy's back yard. I am aware where that power comes from and want wind and solar to hurry the [censored] up as well.
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
It comes from the solar panel in my buddy's back yard. I am aware where that power comes from and want wind and solar to hurry the [censored] up as well.


Sadly you or your friend don't have enough solar panels (or money) to provide enough electric power to move a vehicle more than a few feet.

Remember this is the real world. Wind and solar will never be our main source for power at TODAYS levels. Add vehicles and NEVER is a correct term.

Now, we could place hydro electric dams everyplace and build nukes but that will never fly.

Bill
 
Well said, Bill. No one talks about how these hybrid batteries are made or what to do with them after they no longer work. Toxic wastes are not easy or cheap to recycle or dispose. The masses are greatly ignorant of how things really work. And all oil companies are NOT the same. I work for a US-based integrated and we do not do business the same as BP. Based on my experience with them being minority owners in the field I work in, I'm not surprised this happened. I am disappointed, and sad for our nation. The many in this country who think we as a nation should be "beyond petroleum" couldn't name 10 things that are derived from petroleum, not to mention natural gas. We'll see how they feel when gas hits $4/gal. We as a nation should be moving rapidly towards a comprehensive national energy policy. And that has to include the responsible development of US-sourced fossil fuels as a bridge to long term sustainable energy. Shame on us all for the idiots we let run the country.
 
He has powered his house steadily for a year and has a surplus of power with the power company (he uses less than he generates) without any crazy hippie house. He is also on grid power (he didn't want to go the power storage with batteries route) but his output is taken into consideration by his co-op to determine load. He sells his energy credits on an energy market as well.

Stop assuming and do some research.

And just to clarify, electric car, not solar car.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: brandini
It comes from the solar panel in my buddy's back yard. I am aware where that power comes from and want wind and solar to hurry the [censored] up as well.


Sadly you or your friend don't have enough solar panels (or money) to provide enough electric power to move a vehicle more than a few feet.

Remember this is the real world. Wind and solar will never be our main source for power at TODAYS levels. Add vehicles and NEVER is a correct term.

Now, we could place hydro electric dams everyplace and build nukes but that will never fly.

Bill

Well TODAYS power consumption levels are not what TOMORROWS power consumption level has to be... With efficient designs people can have the same standard of living with far less power consumption. Also your ignorance on how much energy a bank of solar panels can produce and how much energy is needed to run an efficient electric car is frustrating. Especially in Utah, you've got plenty of sun to make a solar panel bank pay off quickly. If everyone sticks their heads in the sand and can't accept changes we would still have cars with no emmisions controls, and dirty coal electric plants causing acid rain... Industry moaned and complained at the time but now would we have it any other way?
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
Yes they are. NYTimes had an article with safety comparisons and ExxonMobil is #1 by far.

That was a good article.

For those who care to read it: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/busine...gers&st=cse

Quote:
The industry standard for safety, analysts say, is set by ExxonMobil, which displays an obsessive attention to detail, monitors the smallest spill and imposes scripted procedures on managers.

Before drilling a well, for example, it runs elaborate computer models to test beforehand what the drillers might encounter. The company trains contractors to recognize risky behavior and asks employees for suggestions on how to improve safety. It says it has cut time lost to safety incidents by 12 percent each year since 2000.

Analysts credit that focus, in part, to the aftermath of the 1989 Exxon Valdez grounding, which spilled 11 million gallons of crude oil into Prince William Sound in Alaska.

"Whatever you think of them, Exxon is now the safest oil company there is," said Amy Myers Jaffe, an energy expert at Rice University.
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
He has powered his house steadily for a year and has a surplus of power with the power company (he uses less than he generates) without any crazy hippie house. He is also on grid power (he didn't want to go the power storage with batteries route) but his output is taken into consideration by his co-op to determine load. He sells his energy credits on an energy market as well.

Stop assuming and do some research.

And just to clarify, electric car, not solar car.


Stop trying to bypass the censor.
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And were we NOT discussing VEHICLES NOT HOMES?

Learn something about electric vehicles and then you'll know something about what they REQUIRE. (as in current)

A lot different powering a 8 watt light bulb and charging a vehicle.

If it was possible TODAY it would have happened.

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Well TODAYS power consumption levels are not what TOMORROWS power consumption level has to be... With efficient designs people can have the same standard of living with far less power consumption. Also your ignorance on how much energy a bank of solar panels can produce and how much energy is needed to run an efficient electric car is frustrating. Especially in Utah, you've got plenty of sun to make a solar panel bank pay off quickly. If everyone sticks their heads in the sand and can't accept changes we would still have cars with no emmisions controls, and dirty coal electric plants causing acid rain... Industry moaned and complained at the time but now would we have it any other way?


Sorry. I do have some understanding on electric power and vehicles. Spent some time on the subject as it interests me.

How do you recharge a vehicle at home at night using solar panels? (that is if you could have enough panels to produce the current to charge a vehicle)

You know how much sun we get? How much have we received in the last 72 hours? Hint, cloudy with rain the last few days.

So I tell my boss never mind I'm waiting on my car to charge...

I've been hearing about how we are going to electric vehicles for DECADES. Started around 1973/74.

Still waiting.

Anyway, lets get back on topic about the oil spill. If you want to take this further then start another thread... (or do a search and see if this has been hashed out before...)


Bill
 
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