Tesla Stock

[DwightFrye]

It will be interesting to see Tesla's Q4 2023 delivery and earnings report in a few days. It is expected to show another record breaking set of numbers for their EV's. We'll see how their solar division is doing.

I understand that GM is a very predictable company to invest in. However their ICE vehicles are pretty mediocore and their EV's are worse. Sure, they can plug along selling cars to loyal customers. But remember, this particular sub-forum on BITOG is about Electric Vehicles. And GM plus Ford aren't performing very well in that category.

I'm also a California resident and hoping that the ridiculous mandate to end ICE sales by 2035 is overturned by people with common sense. But we seem to be a smaller and smaller percentage of voters here so I won't hold my breath.

 

[alarmguy]

It will be interesting to see Tesla's Q4 2023 delivery and earnings report in a few days. It is expected to show another record breaking set of numbers for their EV's. We'll see how their solar division is doing.

I understand that GM is a very predictable company to invest in. However their ICE vehicles are pretty mediocore and their EV's are worse. Sure, they can plug along selling cars to loyal customers. But remember, this particular sub-forum on BITOG is about Electric Vehicles. And GM plus Ford aren't performing very well in that category.
...

As far as ratings, personal opinion. Agree, currently GM is performing bad but so did Tesla a decade ago. It's a start up, takes time. GM EVs will be the same accepted product in 5 years or less as their ICE vehicles.

As far as this thread on EVs, we spoke about this before. I get it as far as GM, but it opens the door to bring in their ICE vehicles when people imply almost as fact that GM is losing money. All fair in love and war. GM is very profitable in-spite of the UAW which is going after the non union shops as we speak, it will be interesting. I know for FACT workers in non union shops are salivating over the recent UAW win. Whether it is enough when the votes start rolling in will be interesting.

SO if we want to stick to only GM EVs lets not imply the company loses money and instead except the BILLIONS of dollars they are investing while still producing a profit. I think this is important because the media and their followers actually think ICE is doomed, I think if anything, their bubble is going to burst once sales of EVs flatten out in the coming decade.

Interesting times for sure, and honestly even more interesting with the new upfront taxpayer funded rebate available at point of sale. Cant wait to see how that plays out. Geez, will be able to use the rebate as a downpayment. Should help EVs blast off to penniless Americans to get further in debt.

Sadly GM cant get out of the gate and barely (same as others) has a car to sell with the Bolt discontinued for the short term. Im not in love with any company and you talk about being out of touch with their customers so much so, they were going to completely cancel their only loved EV, the Bolt until they realized the media and customers LOVE the car *LOL* Talk about stupid! SO not they have a gap with no Bolt... Talk about S-T-U-P-I-D these CEOs in their luxury world truly are out of touch at times.

 

[JeffKeryk]

used to live in Korea - good, bad, indifferent - they buy their stuff …

They sure do. In chip fabs service, calibration, spare parts, consumables, etc is a big (highly profitable) market. The Koreans will use locals far more than any other region.

 

[4WD]

They sure do. In chip fabs service, calibration, spare parts, consumables, etc is a big (highly profitable) market. The Koreans will use locals far more than any other region. Not to mention:

cars … appliances … heavy industries … personal consumption

 

[JeffKeryk]

TSLA stock closed out 2023 with a total gain of 101.7%, the stock's third best yearly gain ever.

• 2011: +7%
• 2012: +18%
• 2013: +344%
• 2014: +48%
• 2015: +8%
• 2016: -11%
• 2017: +46%
• 2018: +7%
• 2019: +25%
• 2020: +743%
• 2021: +49%
• 2022: -65%
• 2023: +102%

 

[TimeFlies]

The issue is a lot bigger than electric vehicles.

Agreed.
EV sales failing is just 1 symptom of a much larger problem.

 

[DwightFrye]

EV sales failing ? Tesla just announced their Q4 2023 numbers:
Vehicles produced: 484,989. Vehicles delivered: 484,507 (the surplus inventory are normally delivered within 2-3 weeks)

2023 total vehicles: 1,845,985 produced, Delivered: 1,808,581.
That is a 38% year over year increase.

I'd say that is pretty impressive given the world economic conditions in 2023 including high interest rates and inflation that hurt every consumer. When Tesla releases their financial report in a few weeks I have no doubt that the numbers will also be excellent, especially considering the price cuts. Ford and GM's EV numbers ? Better hand out the crying towels.

 

[TimeFlies]

EV sales failing ? Tesla just announced their Q4 2023 numbers:
Vehicles produced: 484,989. Vehicles delivered: 484,507 (the surplus inventory are normally delivered within 2-3 weeks)

2023 total vehicles: 1,845,985 produced, Delivered: 1,808,581.
That is a 38% year over year increase.

I'd say that is pretty impressive given the world economic conditions in 2023 including high interest rates and inflation that hurt every consumer. When Tesla releases their financial report in a few weeks I have no doubt that the numbers will also be excellent, especially considering the price cuts. Ford and GM's EV numbers ? Better hand out the crying towels.

So tesla is cutting their selling price, and the others are having trouble moving their ev vehicles at all, but you still think that the ev market is flourishing?
Go back and read your own post.

 

[DwightFrye]

So tesla is cutting their selling price, and the others are having trouble moving their ev vehicles at all, but you still think that the ev market is flourishing?
Go back and read your own post.

Apparently you think a 38% increase in the number of EV's sold by Tesla which will undoubtedly still be much more profitable than any of the other makers, plus the fact that the best selling passenger vehicle in the world in 2023 was the Tesla Model Y (I give credit to Ford's F150 ICE pickup truck as the best selling vehicle overall, at least in the US) is evidence that the EV market is not flourishing ?

Perhaps a remedial course in statistics would help you.

 

[alarmguy]

TSLA stock closed out 2023 with a total gain of 101.7%, the stock's third best yearly gain ever.

• 2011: +7%
• 2012: +18%
• 2013: +344%
• 2014: +48%
• 2015: +8%
• 2016: -11%
• 2017: +46%
• 2018: +7%
• 2019: +25%
• 2020: +743%
• 2021: +49%
• 2022: -65%
• 2023: +102%

It's a shame that Tesla has to go up another 50% to match its high years ago, one would wonder if it ever will and when if does, what then?
If you wanted to pick a winner for the last year Facebook almost matched it all time high from the same period within 1% or so and is up 300% in the last year.

 

[alarmguy]

Apparently you think a 38% increase in the number of EV's sold by Tesla which will undoubtedly still be much more profitable than any of the other makers, plus the fact that the best selling passenger vehicle in the world in 2023 was the Tesla Model Y (I give credit to Ford's F150 ICE pickup truck as the best selling vehicle overall, at least in the US) is evidence that the EV market is not flourishing ?

Perhaps a remedial course in statistics would help you.

You are missing the fact that Tesla's sales increase was much less than Elon Musks own predictions of 50% increases. Not only that but they are slashing prices and profit margins to attain that.
When companies dont match expectations ... well what will be next?

 

[edyvw]

Apparently you think a 38% increase in the number of EV's sold by Tesla which will undoubtedly still be much more profitable than any of the other makers, plus the fact that the best selling passenger vehicle in the world in 2023 was the Tesla Model Y (I give credit to Ford's F150 ICE pickup truck as the best selling vehicle overall, at least in the US) is evidence that the EV market is not flourishing ?

Perhaps a remedial course in statistics would help you.

Of course they are profitable:

 

[TimeFlies]

Apparently you think a 38% increase in the number of EV's sold by Tesla which will undoubtedly still be much more profitable than any of the other makers, plus the fact that the best selling passenger vehicle in the world in 2023 was the Tesla Model Y (I give credit to Ford's F150 ICE pickup truck as the best selling vehicle overall, at least in the US) is evidence that the EV market is not flourishing ?

Perhaps a remedial course in statistics would help you.

It is you that needs to take a comprehension course.

 

[DwightFrye]

I have no doubt that they will be profitable on their vehicle sales and most likely several percent more than their competition. And that includes all other EV makers, most of whom are barely breaking even on their EV's and the legacy makers who haven't been making as much on their ICE vehicles as Tesla makes on their EV's.
As far as Tesla cutting prices last year ? They needed to and they can afford to. Could any of their competition afford to cut prices when their margins are already not that great ?

 

[edyvw]

I have no doubt that they will be profitable on their vehicle sales and most likely several percent more than their competition. And that includes all other EV makers, most of whom are barely breaking even on their EV's and the legacy makers who haven't been making as much on their ICE vehicles as Tesla makes on their EV's.
As far as Tesla cutting prices last year ? They needed to and they can afford to. Could any of their competition afford to cut prices when their margins are already not that great ?

Absolutely. It is like selling house for same money or more as competitors, and not installing switches, lights, etc. telling people that they can turn on lights using microwave oven, while at them same time furnishing it from IKEA.

 

[demarpaint]

It's a shame that Tesla has to go up another 50% to match its high years ago, one would wonder if it ever will and when if does, what then?
If you wanted to pick a winner for the last year Facebook almost matched it all time high from the same period within 1% or so and is up 300% in the last year.

Good point. It's all about where you got in. If you got in at 400/share your not looking too bright, if you got in for less than what it is trading at right now, you're looking OK.

 

[TimeFlies]

I have no doubt that they will be profitable on their vehicle sales and most likely several percent more than their competition. And that includes all other EV makers, most of whom are barely breaking even on their EV's and the legacy makers who haven't been making as much on their ICE vehicles as Tesla makes on their EV's.
As far as Tesla cutting prices last year ? They needed to and they can afford to. Could any of their competition afford to cut prices when their margins are already not that great ?

Why would they need to cut prices if they are selling great?
In that sort of market, a company raises their product price, not lowers it, especially in a time of steep inflation.
Your understanding of business is sorely lacking.

 

[demarpaint]

Why would they need to cut prices if they are selling great?
In that sort of market, a company raises their product price, not lowers it, especially in a time of steep inflation.
Your understanding of business is sorely lacking.

I agree. You cut prices when things are bad, or you expect a slowdown. If you have the best products and they're flying off the shelves, or out of the lots, you raise prices. That's how business works.

As a side note, Elon's biggest nightmare is going to be China, if it isn't now it will be.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Why would they need to cut prices if they are selling great?
In that sort of market, a company raises their product price, not lowers it, especially in a time of steep inflation.
Your understanding of business is sorely lacking.

Tesla is in rapid growth mode. They are building factories and expanding current ones. The goal is to maximize factory output. Mexico and India are next. Austin is expanding for the Model 2. The Fremont plant is changing over to the Highland and the Y is next. No one else even makes a profit on their EV business.

 

[edyvw]

Why would they need to cut prices if they are selling great?
In that sort of market, a company raises their product price, not lowers it, especially in a time of steep inflation.
Your understanding of business is sorely lacking.

Of course. They can make profit bcs. their product is cheap. It uses cheap materials, they shoveled everything on that oversized iPad, and with that cut cost dramatically. They provided on Plaid for example, what could only be considered dangerous brakes, bcs. it doesn’t match performance, meaning cost cutting.
What they sold people is perception of luxury. They sold Jack Daniels for the price of Glenfiddich 21, except it ain’t Glenfiddich. But, customers don’t care if it is, as long as there is perception that it is Glenfiddich. When they couldn’t do that anymore, dropping price to actually what is worth (well, maybe needs to go still down) was easy.