Tesla Retroactive Feature Deletion

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Dinoburner
Then, there is the move by Toyota and GM in lobbying Washington for thier company's to forever own the software in the vehicles we buy.
Come & take it grin
Right?
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
The way I understand it is this... Car was originally specced with Autopilot according to the window sticker, was lemon lawed and bought back, fixed, sold at auction to a third party dealer, sold to customer with Autopilot, and then Tesla removes the feature claiming they didn't pay for it. Sounds like double dipping to me.
Yes, that's what I read as well. The OP isn't entirely accurate.
 
Originally Posted by Olas
how about people stop commplaining and just use a laptop to enable whatever features they want? its not difficult, people are just lazy. we've swapped engines and brakes for years - why not swap code? you dont even need to get dirty or use tools. be proactive and make it happen.
Good way to get a Tesla VIN locked out by Tesla corporate the next time the vehicle makes an OTA update and a checksum is run on the hack software. Tesla's are bit more complicated than legacy ICE vehicle platforms and playing with their software has ramifications for future factory support of that Tesla in question
 
Originally Posted by Hootbro
Originally Posted by Olas
how about people stop commplaining and just use a laptop to enable whatever features they want? its not difficult, people are just lazy. we've swapped engines and brakes for years - why not swap code? you dont even need to get dirty or use tools. be proactive and make it happen.
Good way to get a Tesla VIN locked out by Tesla corporate the next time the vehicle makes an OTA update and a checksum is run on the hack software. Tesla's are bit more complicated than legacy ICE vehicle platforms and playing with their software has ramifications for future factory support of that Tesla in question
They are? This will be news to those who actually work on these "legacy" ICE vehicles not even mentioning HEVs. Tesla's EVs are actually pretty simple as compared to any current ICE vehicle. An EV isn't all that complicated and all of Tesla's extra cost add-ons are replicated in other maker's vehicles.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
...There is a term know as Caveat emptor also. ...
So what are you suggesting is the reasonable level of verification for the layman is? For as long as cars have been built if an option appeared on a used vehicle then that option was present. Most people probably are not aware that auto pilot (or any other option for that matter) can be remotely removed. Someone should not have to perform a chain of custody and payment verification to buy a used car. IMO if Tesla transferred the title to the vehicle with the option present and subsequently removed it then Tesla stole the option. This is not like finding hidden treasure, if a car has auto pilot (or a trailer hitch for that matter) obviously installed, then a reasonable person would expect title to those options transfer with the vehicle. Certainly y'all are not suggesting that I can roll up to the new owner of the Civics house in the middle of the night and take the trailer hitch off of it? I mean I have the recipt for the hitch and she just bought to car not the hitch.... so I can just go get it right? Then when the bacon express shows up with the pretty blue lights i can just stand up and say "Hey it is cool its an over the air update" and they are going to be like "oh ok in that case". And it'll be the new owners fault. grin2
 
Originally Posted by Saabist
Regardless of Tesla's overall merit or lack of same, I would not buy any car where the manufacturer had the capability to keep wireless control of the car after you drive it off the lot.
Exactly. Tesla has just made potential customers aware of how trustworthy they are as a company, it's clear you can't trust them at all.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Hootbro
Originally Posted by Olas
how about people stop commplaining and just use a laptop to enable whatever features they want? its not difficult, people are just lazy. we've swapped engines and brakes for years - why not swap code? you dont even need to get dirty or use tools. be proactive and make it happen.
Good way to get a Tesla VIN locked out by Tesla corporate the next time the vehicle makes an OTA update and a checksum is run on the hack software. Tesla's are bit more complicated than legacy ICE vehicle platforms and playing with their software has ramifications for future factory support of that Tesla in question
They are? This will be news to those who actually work on these "legacy" ICE vehicles not even mentioning HEVs. Tesla's EVs are actually pretty simple as compared to any current ICE vehicle. An EV isn't all that complicated and all of Tesla's extra cost add-ons are replicated in other maker's vehicles.
I am not talking about physical parts maintenance or replacement. I am talking about the base core software that runs the whole shebang and is IP protected. Hack that software and try to then get a over the air update from Tesla down the line and it will get the vehicle VIN locked from future updates. Show me an example of someone who hacked the Tesla vehicle software and still received updates from Tesla without a VIN lock and I will buy your next oil change.
 
Originally Posted by Hootbro
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by Hootbro
Originally Posted by Olas
how about people stop commplaining and just use a laptop to enable whatever features they want? its not difficult, people are just lazy. we've swapped engines and brakes for years - why not swap code? you dont even need to get dirty or use tools. be proactive and make it happen.
Good way to get a Tesla VIN locked out by Tesla corporate the next time the vehicle makes an OTA update and a checksum is run on the hack software. Tesla's are bit more complicated than legacy ICE vehicle platforms and playing with their software has ramifications for future factory support of that Tesla in question
They are? This will be news to those who actually work on these "legacy" ICE vehicles not even mentioning HEVs. Tesla's EVs are actually pretty simple as compared to any current ICE vehicle. An EV isn't all that complicated and all of Tesla's extra cost add-ons are replicated in other maker's vehicles.
I am not talking about physical parts maintenance or replacement. I am talking about the base core software that runs the whole shebang and is IP protected. Hack that software and try to then get a over the air update from Tesla down the line and it will get the vehicle VIN locked from future updates. Show me an example of someone who hacked the Tesla vehicle software and still received updates from Tesla without a VIN lock and I will buy your next oil change.
I would guess that the software required to make things like my HAH or a Prius function is at least as complex as what a Tesla EV requires and neither the Honda nor the Toyota require constant updates to remain functional. This is also true of higher performance ICE cars. There should be no need for a Tesla owner to rely upon constant update pushes. Maybe there really isn't. Maybe Tesla merely wants to keep tabs on the cars it's built and to delete features it thinks shouldn't be available to any given owner based upon chain of ownership. I'm guessing that the lemon-lawed Tesla noted in the opening thread probably brought <20K at auction since lemon-lawed cars are considered toxic with good reason. Who would knowingly pay more than a fraction of normal used wholesale for a car with an unrepairable defect? Tesla may figure that for that kind of coin, the current owner should consider himself lucky that they allow the thing to operate at all.
 
The point you guys miss is that Tesla had to buy the car back. They were the owners. Like it had a hitch and they removed it. Lika the previous owner put in a cheaper radio.
 
FYI - Most of the Tesla over-the-air updates are new or improved functionality. For example, one update took our car from 5.7 seconds to 5.3 in 0 to 60 acceleration. Recent ones add new voice commands. AP gets updates as Tesla's AP database grows. It has billions of miles of data... Tesla OTA Updates It looks like Tesla did the right thing. I imagine all the media scrutiny played a role. Plus they messed up, in my opinion. Alec gets AP Restored
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
The point you guys miss is that Tesla had to buy the car back. They were the owners. Like it had a hitch and they removed it. Lika the previous owner put in a cheaper radio.
No other manufacturer would dare do what Tesla did to their customers. That would be like FCA pushing an update to my 300's Uconnect and removing my GPS navigation and then claiming I'm not the original owner even though my window sticker clearly shows it was originally sold with that option.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Wolf359
The point you guys miss is that Tesla had to buy the car back. They were the owners. Like it had a hitch and they removed it. Lika the previous owner put in a cheaper radio.
No other manufacturer would dare do what Tesla did to their customers. That would be like FCA pushing an update to my 300's Uconnect and removing my GPS navigation and then claiming I'm not the original owner even though my window sticker clearly shows it was originally sold with that option.
In the details of the case, their mistake was selling the car to the dealer with those features enabled. Had they disabled it before they sold it to the dealer, then they would have been fine. In that case the window sticker would just be wrong. They would be entitled to remove a feature before they sold the car, but not afterwards. The window sticker is only relevant when you're buying the car new. When you buy it used, the sticker just tells you what it came with when it was new. If it was modified afterwards by a subsequent owner, that's basically up to the buyer to verify what they're buying.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You understand the software has been restored...
Yes, because they removed the software after they had sold it. They should have done it while they were the owners not afterwards.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You understand the software has been restored...
Yes, because they removed the software after they had sold it. They should have done it while they were the owners not afterwards.
Not sure what you are saying... But the AP software has been restored to "Alec's" Tesla.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You understand the software has been restored...
Yes, because they removed the software after they had sold it. They should have done it while they were the owners not afterwards.
Not sure what you are saying... But the AP software has been restored to "Alec's" Tesla.
If you read the article, Tesla bought the car back but didn't remove the software before selling it to a dealer and that dealer sold it to Alec. If Tesla had removed the software while they were the owner of the car, that would have been legit.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
If you read the article, Tesla bought the car back but didn't remove the software before selling it to a dealer and that dealer sold it to Alec. If Tesla had removed the software while they were the owner of the car, that would have been legit.
I understand what happened. It was a mess, no doubt. Personally I feel it should have been between Tesla and the selling dealer; Alec was innocent. What you may not know is, the software is licensed by Tesla to the owner, not the car. I am not saying I agree; this is just how it works at this point. Finally, I am glad Tesla did the right thing (in my opinion) and restored the software. I am sure there will be more fiascos like this going forward. We are in uncharted territory with high tech vehicles.
 
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