Tesla Q1 sales flatlining, as I have predicted

Unless you’re a gambler or short term, trader using something less than a year is ridiculous trying to make a point on a stock that has been slashed in half from its previous “recent” high.
Come on I’m sure you know better than that.
Stock has gone down from selling at 100 times earnings, to Now 50 times earnings in an industry that is 5 to 10 times earnings.

You're trying to make the point YTD means nothing when in fact if you are interested in getting in now or got in at the first of the year it means a lot, but you aren't so you aren't looking there.

From what I recall you didnt get in at all on the way up or on the down so you and I probably look at different things.
 
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I'm not being disagreeable, I'm being pragmatic.

I guess we can look at Ford's all-time returns since 1980, which including dividends/reinvestments it's a 2830% return.
The first 20 years for Ford, Ford's return was a whopping 6,300% on investment.
But the last decades have been very hard for Ford with a overall downward trend. Lots of competition, regulations, etc.

In 13 years, Tesla is at about 11,500% ROI, with the most recent 5 years being 800%. So that means the first 8 years was about a 10,800% return, the most recent 5 years, big slowdown to 800% return. Great, but follow the trends.

Tesla has no doubt been fabulous for investors, a great American company. But as with Ford, Tesla experienced explosive growth, that has slowed radically in the last few years.

I think one could overlap Ford and Tesla all-time price charts and see very close similarities. With both companies, sans much competition, both experienced explosive early growth, then a sharp decline in valuation followed by more realistic slow gains.

Ford is the same price today, as in 1998 and again in 2010.
Tesla is the same price today, as it was in 11/2020.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/16/63-years-later-what-can-investors-learn-from-fords.aspx

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/

longest term per your preference earlier would be max - you did say you preferred longer right?

thats 14393% a of today.

Screenshot 2023-04-05 at 3.45.42 PM.png
 
longest term per your preference earlier would be max - you did say you preferred longer right?

thats 14393% a of today.

View attachment 148817
No doubt an incredible long term return. You seem blinded by bias.

But look at the trend. Up. Down. Down more. Down more. Down more. Overall, and the last 4 sessions since 2022, lower each successive time, never going higher than the last or coming close to the all time highs. ^^^^

I could name 1000 companies that did this and no longer exist or are radically lower. Like Nokia. Look at Nokia - the forerunner in cellular phones, a giant. Look at 1999-2002. Then again 2007-2010. It went from nothing to $60 to now $5 per share in a very bumpy ride.

My cautionary tale is to not get so emotionally invested in these behemoth companies. Overnight they can collapse.
 
In stock, or any investment product, what matters is gain or loss. Picking dates only works if you are trying to support an agenda.
Arm chair quaterbacks can make TSLA look like a good investment or a bad one.
I have skin in the game and am glad I do. This is a great American company, founded right here in Silicon Valley. A lotta people are gettin paychecks and supporting their families because of Tesla. I like it!
 
No doubt an incredible long term return. You seem blinded by bias.

But look at the trend. Up. Down. Down more. Down more. Down more. Overall, and the last 4 sessions since 2022, lower each successive time, never going higher than the last or coming close to the all time highs. ^^^^

I could name 1000 companies that did this and no longer exist or are radically lower. Like Nokia. Look at Nokia - the forerunner in cellular phones, a giant. Look at 1999-2002. Then again 2007-2010. It went from nothing to $60 to now $5 per share in a very bumpy ride.

My cautionary tale is to not get so emotionally invested in these behemoth companies. Overnight they can collapse.

I got in at 50 and out at 250, not bad but not what it could have been kicking myself,
Never bought back in, but I wont short it either.
 
Your analysis is whack. You understand that Q4 is generally the biggest quarter in car sales due to new year models and discounting existing inventory? Rarely does Q1 beat prior Q4 quarter. You point out YOY Q1 showed 36% gain. FQ to FQ is the measure analysts use because comparing quarters is considered the relevant range.

Another thing; Tesla is ramping existing factories around the world and breaking ground on the Monterrey factory. The goal is to smooth the schedule to increase manufacturing and delivery efficiency, aka cost. Tesla has many vehicles in the physical delivery operation. Cars gotta get to customers aroung the world. This is the last stage of the supply chain and is suceptable to the same constraints.

You state an increase is a drop in demand; you sure got me on that one.
You state this supports your opinion on market saturation. What about interest rates? Bank failures? You do correctly point out economic issues, so well done there. It affects far mote than Tesla.

You may remember that Tesla outsold BMW and MBZ combined, VW and others, in US Q4... Who's demand is increasing and who's is declining?

One more thing to understand that may seem inconsequential if you have not worked in a high production envirornment is, there are generally 2 less production days in Q1. Tesla's corporate goal is to make more cars; to increase production and do so in an efficient manner. They produced 441K cars in Q1, another record and they continue to ramp.

Regurgitating numbers is easy. Understanding what those numbers mean in called analysis.
Very nice. And....if Tesla and EV's ever slow down they are just a battery breakthrough away from coming right back. What many people refuse to believe about EV's is always based upon the batteries of TODAY. But the world of batteries will look much different a decade from now. In fact the development of better batteries is happening right under most people noses.......they just refuse to look down.
 
Very nice. And....if Tesla and EV's ever slow down they are just a battery breakthrough away from coming right back. What many people refuse to believe about EV's is always based upon the batteries of TODAY. But the world of batteries will look much different a decade from now. In fact the development of better batteries is happening right under most people noses.......they just refuse to look down.
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc. At least ICE will continue infinitely on the same fuel sources with no real change, just as they have for a rather long time. I will gladly say EV will never be mainstream in life as we know it. Just too many POF to deal with.
 
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc. At least ICE will continue infinitely on the same fuel sources with no real change, just as they have for a rather long time. I will gladly say EV will never be mainstream in life as we know it. Just too many POF to deal with.
They're already mainstream. They just aren't the most popular choice. Plenty of people daily them.
 
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc. At least ICE will continue infinitely on the same fuel sources with no real change, just as they have for a rather long time. I will gladly say EV will never be mainstream in life as we know it. Just too many POF to deal with.

The grid is a bottleneck for BEV's and refinement the bottleneck for ICE.

We're currently at last I heard 130 refineries (?)

It will be interesting to see where future investment goes.
 
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc. At least ICE will continue infinitely on the same fuel sources with no real change, just as they have for a rather long time. I will gladly say EV will never be mainstream in life as we know it. Just too many POF to deal with.
The grid is a problem. Don't ask me how I know. PG&E burns down our forrests and blew up San Bruno a few years back.
I am hoping EV adoption will be a demand catalyst to light a fire under PG&E. (Wrong analagy...) Heck, maybe Elon should buy out PG&E and show them how to get things done!
 
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc.
Agreed, there is a LONG way to go for EVs and a lot of vulnerability. Electricity is still relatively cheap, but that is changing nationally and globally. Energy prices for electricity could increase by say a factor of 2, 5, even 10 in the next few years depending on macro and micro events and more "climate change" religious implementations that harm humans. When it costs 10x as much to fuel the EVs, or can only be done irregularly due to constraints on the grids or otherwise, or when grids simply collapse, then what?

People tout Tesla's alleged self-sufficiency. Yet consider, big TSLA markets are in China and Europe. China is definitely aligning against the US economically, as are Germany and France. Much of Europe is in as bad or worse economic shape as the US. China is already reverse engineering TSLAs, and will have a competitive platform in years.

The US imports a significant amount of lithium (25 to 50%) and cobalt (77%) - a key component for batteries. What happens when these nations cannot or will not sell to the US, or shipments physically cannot get here. It is China, not the US, that is making all manner of deals in Afghanistan and S. Africa and Iran for their lithium and cobalt rich mineral resources. Tesla could very well be in deep trouble without minerals and/or a global market b/c there's a finite small TSLA market in the US, comprised of high earners who own homes and garages and live in the southern/warmer states.
 
They're already mainstream. They just aren't the most popular choice. Plenty of people daily them.
Last I looked Wisconsin EV registration was around 2% adoption.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/
38k EVs registered in MN, about 1/3rd are Teslas. Heavily weighted in 1 county which I presume is the wealthiest.
https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-data/

2% is not mainstream. 2% in stats is called abnormal, an anomaly.
 
Agreed, there is a LONG way to go for EVs and a lot of vulnerability. Electricity is still relatively cheap, but that is changing nationally and globally. Energy prices for electricity could increase by say a factor of 2, 5, even 10 in the next few years depending on macro and micro events and more "climate change" religious implementations that harm humans. When it costs 10x as much to fuel the EVs, or can only be done irregularly due to constraints on the grids or otherwise, or when grids simply collapse, then what?

People tout Tesla's alleged self-sufficiency. Yet consider, big TSLA markets are in China and Europe. China is definitely aligning against the US economically, as are Germany and France. Much of Europe is in as bad or worse economic shape as the US. China is already reverse engineering TSLAs, and will have a competitive platform in years.

The US imports a significant amount of lithium (25 to 50%) and cobalt (77%) - a key component for batteries. What happens when these nations cannot or will not sell to the US, or shipments physically cannot get here. It is China, not the US, that is making all manner of deals in Afghanistan and S. Africa and Iran for their lithium and cobalt rich mineral resources. Tesla could very well be in deep trouble without minerals and/or a global market b/c there's a finite small TSLA market in the US, comprised of high earners who own homes and garages and live in the southern/warmer states.

Tesla is either cobalt free or close to it now - cant speak for the rest
Lithium seems to be coming from everywhere now. Last big supplier to land a contract was in Quebec.

As Opec and Russia just co agreed to ramp down production 5% which will undoubtably hit Americans at the pump - the current ICE paradigm is always under dependency and stability threat - whereas if we so chose we can make and distribute 100% of our own electricity.

Since oil is a global commodity just being self sufficient is not enough because price is controlled by global supply and demand so with other oil off the market - our own becomes more expensive solving supply but not price control.

I've not seen a solution for this problem outside of gradual electrification.
 
Thing is technology won't magically improve infinitely like some wanna believe. Regardless of the power sources that might be put in use, you still have to look at the mediocre power grid lagging way behind. Not to mention what will happen when the current charge stations might have to be reconfigured for various updated cells, etc. At least ICE will continue infinitely on the same fuel sources with no real change, just as they have for a rather long time. I will gladly say EV will never be mainstream in life as we know it. Just too many POF to deal with.
had you read my post my timeline is 10-30 years. Just look at computers and communications since 1990. How different is it. In 1990, I could call China, for about $10 a minute. Now I can facetime for free all day. Once money comes in to a field, everything changes. Do you remember back 30 years? It was a lot different. And the btw, the technology of batteries HAS changed a lot in the last decade. It doesn't have to change "infinitely", as you describe. It just needs a long slow improvement.

Be in denial all you want. This reminds me of 1984, I just started my career as an engineer, on a drafting board. 3 years later Microsoft and computers show up. I didn't think it was going anywhere. I missed the whole revolution AS IT HAPPENED right under my nose.

Billions are being put into EV's and batteries. Announcements are constant of adding new plants and capacity. Is GM and Ford and pretty much every automaker wrong? I don't think so.

I'll tell you exactly what's going on. To build an ICE car, will never be cheaper than it is today. 110 years of development and we have reached as cheap as it will get. If anything, with cost of labor and materials, they will climb in costs. EV's, on the other hand are JUST beginning their cost reduction journey. In a decade, they will be cheaper to own and drive than ICE. After that, it's game over for ICE.

Mark my words, owning an EV will be CHEAPER then ICE in 15 years. Guaranteed.
 
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Last I looked Wisconsin EV registration was around 2% adoption.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/
38k EVs registered in MN, about 1/3rd are Teslas. Heavily weighted in 1 county which I presume is the wealthiest.
https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-data/

2% is not mainstream. 2% in stats is called abnormal, an anomaly.
How do you explain Norway? Wisconsin is a bunch of backward Luddites. I'm next door in Minnesota. We are bad enough but Wisconsin is worse. We are both in a cold climate. EV's will be slow to sell in cold areas until batteries improve.
 
had you read my post my timeline is 10-30 years. Just look at computers and communications since 1990. How different is it. In 1990, I could call China, for about $10 a minute. Now I can facetime for free all day. Once money comes in to a field, everything changes. Do you remember back 30 years? It was a lot different. And the btw, the technology of batteries HAS changed a lot in the last decade. It doesn't have to change "infinitely", as you describe. It just needs a long slow improvement.

Be in denial all you want. This reminds me of 1984, I just started my career as an engineer, on a drafting board. 3 years later Microsoft and computers show up. I didn't think it was going anywhere. I missed the whole revolution AS IT HAPPENED right under my nose.

Billions are being put into EV's and batteries. Announcements are constant of adding new plants and capacity. Is GM and Ford and pretty much every automaker wrong? I don't think so. Mark my words, owning an EV will be CHEAPER then ICE in 15 years. Guaranteed.
The 1st IBM PC with the 8088 processor came out in the early 80's and cost serious money back then.

IBM's early studies had concluded that there were not enough applications to justify acceptance on a broad basis. One analyst was quoted as saying that "IBM bringing out a personal computer would be like teaching an elephant to tap dance."
The PC packed a whopping 40K of ROM and 16K of user memory for applications and such.

The response was overwhelming.

Personally, the PC changed my life. I learned IBM Assembler, COBOL, BASIC, C, Pascal. I taught myself Microsoft Visual BASIC, which was a sorts ripped off COBOL. It, along with the Microsoft Stack, became the backbone of custom business solutions.
And I learned Finance, the language of business. And I learned manufacturing. And Silicon Valley adopted me and made me one of their own. And they gave me stock options for sitting around on my butt slamming code.
 
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How do you explain Norway? Wisconsin is a bunch of backward Luddites. I'm next door in Minnesota. We are bad enough but Wisconsin is worse. We are both in a cold climate. EV's will be slow to sell in cold areas until batteries improve.
Don't waste your breath. Some people are only open to what they wanna hear. It must be hard to know everything...
 
Don't waste your breath. Some people are only open to what they wanna hear. It must be hard to know everything...
lol. I don't claim to know it all but I did observe the whole PC and communication revolution and I learned a lot. It doesn't happen over night and the stocks of these EV companies will be volatile and all over the place, but in the end, around 2050 it will all be decided who the winners are. I will probably not be here to see it.
 
The 1st IBM PC with the 8088 processor came out in the early 80's and cost serious money back then.

IBM's early studies had concluded that there were not enough applications to justify acceptance on a broad basis. One analyst was quoted as saying that "IBM bringing out a personal computer would be like teaching an elephant to tap dance."
The PC packed a whopping 40K of ROM and 16K of user memory for applications and such.

The response was overwhelming.
What is amazing about your story is that IBM, this huge corporation with thousands of very smart people could not see the possibilities. They had the same bias.....what was sitting in front of them, AT THE TIME. They couldn't imagine, you release this complex machine to the masses and a decade later, it's gone completely bonkers. It's no different than the stock market. If we have a 5 year boom, suddenly everyone is investing and we are all geniuses. We have a 5 year bust, no one will buy a share. It's a bias that our brains fall for every time.
 
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