Tesla Drops USA Prices up to 20%

I don't know where you get your information, but it's simply incorrect on this point based on open source sales numbers.

Toyota sells about as many vehicles in ONE typical year going back 20 years (about 2 million per year) as ALL Teslas sold worldwide since inception, (about 2.6 million as of March 2022). The Camry alone sells about 350,000 annually, and there's about 6.5 million Camry's sold since 2005.

Further, the recent Tesla jump reflects about a 75% increase in sales in the latest reported year I found, in no small part to huge tax credits. Toyota is doing that in spite of uneven playing fields and comparative disadvantages, e.g. Toyota isn't the benefactor of massive tax credits given to Tesla customers. Note, ALL EV sales reflect a total of 3% of the entire auto market.

Typical consumers of Toyota/Honda, etc. are not drawn to Tesla as they aren't in the same market place.
Corolla: $22,000
Civic: $25-30,000
Prius: $33,000
Sienna: $36,000
RAV4: $35-40,000
Ford F150 XLT: $42,000
Toyota 4Runner: $45,000

As noted on the original post, the entry Tesla 3 is $45,000 (and they skyrocket in price from there, quickly doubling the price of economy commuter ICE vehicle). A Tesla 3 is much as a nice gas truck or a 4Runner, XTerra, etc. I imagine there's also some home modifications that are needed to plug it in, but I don't know what other costs are involved. Oh and the Model Y, priced at around $55,000, is about double these basic ICE car costs and still tens of thousands higher than really nice gasoline cars, even after the tax rebate. As a consumer who purchases vehicles in this price range, I have zero desire for a Telsa, none, whatsoever.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-us-sales-figures/

https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/how-many-teslas-have-been-sold

IMHO these recent sales cuts reflect a population getting more educated on the drawbacks of EVs (they aren't as reliable or easy to maintain and other broken promises), it's becoming less of a "virtue signaling tool" as it has been given it's damage to the environment, and other drawbacks, we're entering a global recession/depression, interest rates are higher, etc.
The numbers are easy to find. In 2022 Tesla had a YOY growth of more than 40%. Almost every other car maker had a decline.
The Model Y was the #6 selling car of any kind; the Model 3 was #15.

The Model Y was likely the #1 vehicle by revenue and profit with the possible exception of the top 3 pickup trucks.
Curious... What tax credit are you speaking of? Thanks in advance!
 
I don't know where you get your information, but it's simply incorrect on this point based on open source sales numbers.

Toyota sells about as many vehicles in ONE typical year going back 20 years (about 2 million per year) as ALL Teslas sold worldwide since inception, (about 2.6 million as of March 2022). The Camry alone sells about 350,000 annually, and there's about 6.5 million Camry's sold since 2005.

Further, the recent Tesla jump reflects about a 75% increase in sales in the latest reported year I found, in no small part to huge tax credits. Toyota is doing that in spite of uneven playing fields and comparative disadvantages, e.g. Toyota isn't the benefactor of massive tax credits given to Tesla customers. Note, ALL EV sales reflect a total of 3% of the entire auto market.

Typical consumers of Toyota/Honda, etc. are not drawn to Tesla as they aren't in the same market place.
Corolla: $22,000
Civic: $25-30,000
Prius: $33,000
Sienna: $36,000
RAV4: $35-40,000
Ford F150 XLT: $42,000
Toyota 4Runner: $45,000

As noted on the original post, the entry Tesla 3 is $45,000 (and they skyrocket in price from there, quickly doubling the price of economy commuter ICE vehicle). A Tesla 3 is much as a nice gas truck or a 4Runner, XTerra, etc. I imagine there's also some home modifications that are needed to plug it in, but I don't know what other costs are involved. Oh and the Model Y, priced at around $55,000, is about double these basic ICE car costs and still tens of thousands higher than really nice gasoline cars, even after the tax rebate. As a consumer who purchases vehicles in this price range, I have zero desire for a Telsa, none, whatsoever.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-us-sales-figures/

https://moneytransfers.com/news/content/how-many-teslas-have-been-sold

IMHO these recent sales cuts reflect a population getting more educated on the drawbacks of EVs (they aren't as reliable or easy to maintain and other broken promises), it's becoming less of a "virtue signaling tool" as it has been given it's damage to the environment, and other drawbacks, we're entering a global recession/depression, interest rates are higher, etc.
You nailed it!! IMO there are certain parts of the country where they're even less appealing. The cold snowy North East comes to mind.
 
The numbers are easy to find. In 2022 Tesla had a YOY growth of more than 40%. Almost every other car maker had a decline.
The Model Y was the #6 selling car of any kind; the Model 3 was #15.

The Model Y was likely the #1 vehicle by revenue and profit with the possible exception of the top 3 pickup trucks.
Curious... What tax credit are you speaking of? Thanks in advance!
But:
Point in time is a blip on the radar. How you perform long term is what counts. The competition is tiny in comparison.
I agree, if by that you actually mean that Tesla's recent 2 years is the blip on the radar we're discussing. Get back to us when Tesla has the sales numbers of GM #1, Toyota #2, etc. It'll never happen. Tesla IMHO does not have staying power because most Americans cannot afford them, don't want them, and there is no infrastructure to power them; not at people's homes, apartments, condos, nor do we have the grid capacity. Again, ALL EVs combined are a paltry 3% of vehicle sales.

Let's evaluated the link you sent with the top 10 selling vehicles last year:
1-3 & 7 & 9: $45-80,000 pickup trucks, purchased by mostly blue collar men for construction industry.
4 & 8 & 10: A very practical Rav4, CRV and Jeeps, all $40,000 mid-sized SUV, the modern family station wagon.
5: A very practical Camry, a family commuter car in the $35,000 range.
At #6: Then we get to the totally impractical $60,000 Tesla Y, purchased by nobody other than the wealthy who have houses with garages, as a suburban status symbol and toy.

Living where you do in one of the most expensive locations in the nation, with 5 cars worth probably $400,000, do you consider yourself a typical American consumer with a typical budget? If not, can you understand why most Americans including myself reject these EVs are not interested. I'll again point to the fact that 97% of all vehicles sold, were not EVs. So which class of people are EVs targeting? The out of touch millionaire class who don't understand the struggles of 90% of Americans.

The reality is, my solidly middle class paycheck goes to paying taxes, which contribute to the Tesla subsidies for a product I cannot afford, don't want, and won't ever want. So that rich people with their 4 car garages and 5 vehicles can have a totally impractical suburban toy to drive around in. It's not right and I don't agree with it whatsoever. Worse, it's negatively influencing ICE vehicles, which are being discontinued, and putting strains on power grids and causing a host of problems, damaging the environment, etc.
 
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Are you saying that people in China shouldn't be mad about it?
I think there would have been a much better way to go about it, but Elon.

No more than any other nationality when it happens a hundred times a year- next month special always shows up.

You buy when you buy and the future price is what it is.
 
But:

I agree, if by that you actually mean that Tesla's recent 2 years is the blip on the radar we're discussing. Get back to us when Tesla has the sales numbers of GM #1, Toyota #2, etc. It'll never happen. Tesla IMHO does not have staying power because most Americans cannot afford them, don't want them, and there is no infrastructure to power them; not at people's homes, apartments, condos, nor do we have the grid capacity. Again, ALL EVs combined are a paltry 3% of vehicle sales.

Let's evaluated the link you sent with the top 10 selling vehicles last year:
1-3 & 7 & 9: $45-80,000 pickup trucks, purchased by mostly blue collar men for construction industry.
4 & 8 & 10: A very practical Rav4, CRV and Jeeps, all $40,000 mid-sized SUV, the modern family station wagon.
5: A very practical Camry, a family commuter car in the $35,000 range.
At #6: Then we get to the totally impractical $60,000 Tesla Y, purchased by nobody other than the wealthy who have houses with garages, as a suburban status symbol and toy.

Living where you do in one of the most expensive locations in the nation, with 5 cars worth probably $400,000, do you consider yourself a typical American consumer with a typical budget? If not, can you understand why most Americans including myself reject these EVs are not interested. I'll again point to the fact that 97% of all vehicles sold, were not EVs. So which class of people are EVs targeting? The out of touch millionaire class who don't understand the struggles of 90% of Americans.

The reality is, my solidly middle class paycheck goes to paying taxes, which contribute to the Tesla subsidies for a product I cannot afford, don't want, and won't ever want. So that rich people with their 4 car garages and 5 vehicles can have a totally impractical suburban toy to drive around in. It's not right and I don't agree with it whatsoever. Worse, it's negatively influencing ICE vehicles, which are being discontinued, and putting strains on power grids and causing a host of problems, damaging the environment, etc.
A few points...
I am against subsidies. But singling out Tesla or EVs is silly. Tesla has not been eligible for a tax credit for years. How do you feel about US subsidies to big oil? $20B per year? What about bailing out GM, etc?
Your point of the $60K Model Y shows it can compete and beat cars that are far lower priced. That's no small feat. I don't think anyone is twisting arms to buy one...
I have posted many times that an EV is not for everyone. No one needs a Tesla. Or a BroDozer, Vette, MBZ, BMW, you name it.
I am not sure your pickup sales demographics is accurate. By the way, I love my trusty old Tundra. 212K on the clock and I would drive it anywhere, if I could afford to feed it.
 
Here are the facts, I mean, come on already and Tesla had no significant EV competition, just wait one more year and this stock price may look great.
Tesla already lost 20% of USA market share in the last two years, (stock price lost 70%) Tesla produces less the 3% of USA sales of vehicles. The competition is just starting.
30 new EVs hitting the market this year and wait until next. These are facts, spin them anyway you want.
37FE290E-2756-4761-9381-87978392D103.jpeg
 
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Here are the facts, I mean, come on already and they had no significant competition, just wait one more year and this price will look great

....and still the most valuable car company in the world by far.
 
A few points...
I am against subsidies. But singling out Tesla or EVs is silly. Tesla has not been eligible for a tax credit for years. How do you feel about US subsidies to big oil? $20B per year? What about bailing out GM, etc?
Your point of the $60K Model Y shows it can compete and beat cars that are far lower priced. That's no small feat. I don't think anyone is twisting arms to buy one...
I have posted many times that an EV is not for everyone. No one needs a Tesla. Or a BroDozer, Vette, MBZ, BMW, you name it.
I am not sure your pickup sales demographics is accurate. By the way, I love my trusty old Tundra. 212K on the clock and I would drive it anywhere, if I could afford to feed it.
I'm against almost all manner of bail outs, and similar scams. I would have let the car companies flounder in 2008. Same with all the other bailouts for all the other industries, except when they were totally innocent victims of circumstances and they are needed for national reasons of high importance. I do not agree with all these tax credit scams for wealthy people who don't need it.

I'm not an accountant, and I had hoped you are correct about doing away with EV tax credits. According to this article the $2 trillion "Inflation Reduction Act" (an Orwellian name if there ever was one) provides a $7500 credit for some Teslas. I don't care enough about it, and I cannot do anything, so I won't study this carefully other than to note there are eligible models.
https://www.leafscore.com/tesla/which-tesla-models-qualify-for-the-ev-tax-credit/

The fact is they cost twice as much as a comparable ICE vehicle. Saying "EV's are not for everyone," is still misleading IMO. It would be more appropriate, based on sales numbers and market shares, to say that "EVs are for almost nobody, except the wealthy elite, who aren't fixed to a normal household budget and have massive disposable money, who want to virtue signal in a short range suburban nice weather vehicle." I don't personally know a single human who owns an EV, even among my associates who could afford one. They are just not practical nor economically sensible. I have rarely seen them outside of extremely wealthy areas of the city.
 
If someone is serious about scams and subsidies, and all manner of bailouts 179 and half tons is by far the biggest offender.
EV is there for sure but peanuts.
 
....and still the most valuable car company in the world by far.
While remarkable and possibly still true, Tesla has lost something like 2/3rds of its stock value this year, from a high of 361 to current price of about 122. In 2021 the company was valued at $650 billion. Today, around $386 billion per Yahoo finance.

Still, that's a lot more value than Toyota ($190 billion), and GM ($52 billion). It's staggering that Tesla has such a small market share but has had a meteoric rise that is almost impossible to understand. I've read several articles and still don't fully comprehend how Tesla has amassed such market cap value over the major auto makers. There must be more to the financial evaluations, or how it's calculated, etc. It would seem that auto companies with 100 year head start would have far far more global value, factories, inventory, etc. especially selling 10x as many vehicles per year at Tesla for decades upon decades... I'd have to study all the numbers to be convinced this is a apples-to-apples evaluation. I've lived long enough to see the Bernie Madoffs and the FTXs of the world to not fully trust fuzzy math numbers like the reports of Tesla's value. Seems very fishy to me.

It does seem fragile in my view. It's a tech company, and we know how fast those can evaporate. I lived through the dot com bust, as I'm sure many others here did too. I just read an article that discussed the top reasons for Tesla's stratospheric success:
https://www.hotcars.com/why-tesla-became-most-valuable-car-company/

8: Elon's brand: That seems to be on fragile footing.
7: Uncompromising: Favorable comparisons to Steve Jobs. This to me seems very fleeting, especially when competition ramps up. Or as we see now, big discounts appear to be a "compromise."
6: Clear vision: Okay, but so did Blockbuster, Pan Am, Delorean, Kodak, and thousands of defunct companies.
5: Focus on high performance attractive cars: Okay. This goes in the fad fashion category.
4: Break from conventional wisdom: This is true, and it paid off. However he's soon to lose many competitive and front running advantages over time.
3: Own supply chain: This is important but can be replicated.
2: Hire great employees: This is important but not unique and can be replicated.
1: Think big: Yes, but this can also be replicated.

I would add the biggest one is the recent legislative moves to push companies and consumers to EVs.

In the end, it's my opinion that Tesla is more of a fashion and fad for the elite, who will get disillusioned or bored by it and move on to the next shiny object. Elon has done a lot of damage to his brand, whether you agree or disagree with his latest actions. And I think many of those competitive or comparative advantages will be eroded over time.
 
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Could go even lower and still be several times larger than everyone else.
Until it isn’t 🙃
I say this because it’s fact that many big shareholders of this company are not very happy right now and many have lost significant amounts of money on a scale that I probably cannot comprehend.

Anyway, I’m not hoping they’ll go out of business, the word of irrational exuberance, has been the point of my posts for the last year.
 
The value dropped by 70% the last time you told me this.
Value as you present mean nothing. It’s only speculation what your present.
We could say the value is dramatically depreciating at this point until proven otherwise.
I'm kinda confused. You post the stock price drop and then say it means nothing?
I guess I am not understanding your point. Not saying it is wrong, just not clear to me.

The current valuuation of TSLA is worth more than the next 4 or 5 car companies combined.
TSLA is still up 5X since I bought our car.
That's the numbers.
 
The numbers are easy to find. In 2022 Tesla had a YOY growth of more than 40%. Almost every other car maker had a decline.
The Model Y was the #6 selling car of any kind; the Model 3 was #15.

The Model Y was likely the #1 vehicle by revenue and profit with the possible exception of the top 3 pickup trucks.
Curious... What tax credit are you speaking of? Thanks in advance!
When you start from 0, there is only one way to go in sales.
 
I've been waiting, since day 1, to see if GM/Ford/Honda/Toyota/Fuji/HMG.... will swoop in and take over Tesla. Still waiting.

At what point, do all those, not 'replicating' anything special companies, swoop in and take 'em over?

All companies are fragile to some extent. Tesla grew because of a great social credit score. And now, their value dropped because of a not so great social credit score. Remember the SCS for when you're applying for a loan, mortgage, creditcard.... we're sorry, you were denied because of what you posted on some chat/comment 'site, even though you have all bills paid on time, a secure and great paying job, money in the bank..... Your online opinion hurt our feelings. Almost as bad as going to the sporting goods stores, spotting a product, and having the big bank credit card refuse the transaction because of the product type or name of the sporting goods store, or being a bank that has done all transactions with a certain business or individual, and then simply drop them.

Is Tesla even a car manufacturer? or a carbon credit trading company?
 
Teslas inverters and batteries and motors are not special anymore, and their cars have the worst fit/finish in the industry, so their premium pricing is nose-diving to keep up with much better appointed competitors that have finally decided to go EV. Like I said all along, Tesla must evolve, but instead in the short term it looks like they are just giving up their massive mark-ups in part.

I thought Tesla fit & finish has improved over the past few years.
 
While remarkable and possibly still true, Tesla has lost something like 2/3rds of its stock value this year, from a high of 361 to current price of about 122. In 2021 the company was valued at $650 billion. Today, around $386 billion per Yahoo finance.

Still, that's a lot more value than Toyota ($190 billion), and GM ($52 billion). It's staggering that Tesla has such a small market share but has had a meteoric rise that is almost impossible to understand. I've read several articles and still don't fully comprehend how Tesla has amassed such market cap value over the major auto makers. There must be more to the financial evaluations, or how it's calculated, etc. It would seem that auto companies with 100 year head start would have far far more global value, factories, inventory, etc. especially selling 10x as many vehicles per year at Tesla for decades upon decades... I'd have to study all the numbers to be convinced this is a apples-to-apples evaluation. I've lived long enough to see the Bernie Madoffs and the FTXs of the world to not fully trust fuzzy math numbers like the reports of Tesla's value. Seems very fishy to me.

It does seem fragile in my view. It's a tech company, and we know how fast those can evaporate. I lived through the dot com bust, as I'm sure many others here did too. I just read an article that discussed the top reasons for Tesla's stratospheric success:
https://www.hotcars.com/why-tesla-became-most-valuable-car-company/

8: Elon's brand: That seems to be on fragile footing.
7: Uncompromising: Favorable comparisons to Steve Jobs. This to me seems very fleeting, especially when competition ramps up. Or as we see now, big discounts appear to be a "compromise."
6: Clear vision: Okay, but so did Blockbuster, Pan Am, Delorean, Kodak, and thousands of defunct companies.
5: Focus on high performance attractive cars: Okay. This goes in the fad fashion category.
4: Break from conventional wisdom: This is true, and it paid off. However he's soon to lose many competitive and front running advantages over time.
3: Own supply chain: This is important but can be replicated.
2: Hire great employees: This is important but not unique and can be replicated.
1: Think big: Yes, but this can also be replicated.

I would add the biggest one is the recent legislative moves to push companies and consumers to EVs.

In the end, it's my opinion that Tesla is more of a fashion and fad for the elite, who will get disillusioned or bored by it and move on to the next shiny object. Elon has done a lot of damage to his brand, whether you agree or disagree with his latest actions. And I think many of those competitive or comparative advantages will be eroded over time.
Your list has a lotta could be's. How come no one is doing it?
You are 100% correct, Teslas are expensive. Musk's plan has been to start with expensive cars to fuel the development of cheaper cars. That materialized with the Model 3 and Y and Tesla's plan is to ultimately offer an EV for the masses. What does the future hold? That remains to be seen. People will vote with their pocketbook. May the best product win.
You may not like Teslas or EVs, I'm not sure. But that is your choice and is fine. The fad comment has been on since day 1. The sales numbers appear to say that many consumers want them which, similarly, is their choice.
 
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