Tesla Drops USA Prices up to 20%

Torrid said:
I get it. I instantly liked the Model S. I really didn't like the Model 3 at first. I had to be around it awhile in person to get it. I don't think it photographs well. In person it's much wider and lower than the photos suggest. I think part of it has to do with the low belt line of the front, but it looks really tall from the back. For example from the front it looks comparable to the GTI.

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Here's the part where I thought I'd show the back of both vehicles but I guess I haven't taken a picture from this angle. 😂 I definitely think it looks better from the front than the back.

It's kind of easy to make it look extra bubble-y taking pictures at the wrong angles for sure.
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Tesla looks nice, Im curious about the GTI. Never owned one, most likely never will, thought about it for decades, Ill never stop liking the look of it and always liked what I think is the unique look.
Curious, have you been happy with it?
Being European I would expect small issues here and there but overall?
 
alarmguy said:
I firmly believe unless they come out with something completely compelling at some point we will see it in the double digits long term with the same P/E ratios of the industry. It’s just a car.
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It would be a mistake to think that Tesla won't come out with something completely different, i.e. an all new "economy" model as well as refreshed Model 3's and Model Y's and soon. Plus add the sales of the Cybertruck which is just now (finally) ramping up and which they have pre-orders in excess of 1.2 million of.

Unless Elon has had a brain aneurysm or something I can't imagine his near-long term plan is to just keep the existing models going for another 3-4 years with just minor facelifts or other rather uninspiring annual updates.

I have pointed out many times but some people fail to grasp the reality that while Teslas are "just a car", TSLA as a company is much, much more. The stock valuation is for TSLA not for Tesla vehicle sales.The revenue streams and profits for Tesla products above and beyond the sales of the Model's S, 3,X and Y are just beginning. And those numbers will all contribute to the valuation of TSLA. P-E ratios of other "automakers" will be irrelevant when comparing overall valuations of their companies vs. TSLA.
 
DwightFrye said:
It would be a mistake to think that Tesla won't come out with something completely different, i.e. an all new "economy" model as well as refreshed Model 3's and Model Y's and soon. Plus add the sales of the Cybertruck which is just now (finally) ramping up and which they have pre-orders in excess of 1.2 million of.

Unless Elon has had a brain aneurysm or something I can't imagine his near-long term plan is to just keep the existing models going for another 3-4 years with just minor facelifts or other rather uninspiring annual updates.

I have pointed out many times but some people fail to grasp the reality that while Teslas are "just a car", TSLA as a company is much, much more. The stock valuation is for TSLA not for Tesla vehicle sales.The revenue streams and profits for Tesla products above and beyond the sales of the Model's S, 3,X and Y are just beginning. And those numbers will all contribute to the valuation of TSLA. P-E ratios of other "automakers" will be irrelevant when comparing overall valuations of their companies vs. TSLA.
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Oh, dont misunderstand me, nothing wrong with speculating in a stock.
Just as much there is nothing wrong with questioning valuation.
Right now we have falling market share, falling profit margins and the assumption the newest "truck" is going to carry the weight.
Never mind a marketplace that had almost zero competition for electric motor vehicles will now have the entire worldwide auto industry offering the same products and more. It's not a unique product or better said will no longer be in the coming years.

So like any investment when will the exit strategy come into play? Does one think they are going to take over the world? I dont know but a lot of people have been hurt the last 2 years. Time will tell. This is what investing is about but caution is always the key with high flying stocks to ask oneself what could go wrong? Like I mentioned in the first paragraph....

BTW - I think SpaceX might be interesting when it becomes public as that has a high barrier for companies to enter.

(ok and now off to the gym :)))
 
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DwightFrye said:
It would be a mistake to think that Tesla won't come out with something completely different, i.e. an all new "economy" model as well as refreshed Model 3's and Model Y's and soon. Plus add the sales of the Cybertruck which is just now (finally) ramping up and which they have pre-orders in excess of 1.2 million of.

Unless Elon has had a brain aneurysm or something I can't imagine his near-long term plan is to just keep the existing models going for another 3-4 years with just minor facelifts or other rather uninspiring annual updates.

I have pointed out many times but some people fail to grasp the reality that while Teslas are "just a car", TSLA as a company is much, much more. The stock valuation is for TSLA not for Tesla vehicle sales.The revenue streams and profits for Tesla products above and beyond the sales of the Model's S, 3,X and Y are just beginning. And those numbers will all contribute to the valuation of TSLA. P-E ratios of other "automakers" will be irrelevant when comparing overall valuations of their companies vs. TSLA.
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If valuation is main focus, they are screwed in the long term.
Boing is good example.
 
My prediction is that Tesla pricing will drop down to the same level as a high end corolla/low end camry (with the model 3) and a rav4 (with the model Y). How far and how fast they move pricing is anyones gain.

That will allow them to sustain their growth model that they need to keep investors happy and also allow them to achieve their long term goal of EV adoption. The overall "fit and finish" argument will also diminish with their casting process and even if their are flaws a corolla/rav4 buyer will be more forgiving then say a luxury buyer.
 
NismoNVT said:
My prediction is that Tesla pricing will drop down to the same level as a high end corolla/low end camry (with the model 3) and a rav4 (with the model Y). How far and how fast they move pricing is anyones gain.

That will allow them to sustain their growth model that they need to keep investors happy and also allow them to achieve their long term goal of EV adoption. The overall "fit and finish" argument will also diminish with their casting process and even if their are flaws a corolla/rav4 buyer will be more forgiving then say a luxury buyer.
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The Model 3 price now puts the car close to a loaded Camry. Tesla has already blown up the lux market.
The price drop is a shot across the bow of legacy car companies.
The Model 2, or whatever they call it, will be the everyman's Tesla. You know they are working on it.

Tesla's market share continues to grow. Their manufacturing prowess results in industry best margins, which gives them incredible leverage in the market. I am anxious to hear the Investor Relations meeting next week.
 
DwightFrye said:
I have pointed out many times but some people fail to grasp the reality that while Teslas are "just a car", TSLA as a company is much, much more. The stock valuation is for TSLA not for Tesla vehicle sales.The revenue streams and profits for Tesla products above and beyond the sales of the Model's S, 3,X and Y are just beginning. And those numbers will all contribute to the valuation of TSLA. P-E ratios of other "automakers" will be irrelevant when comparing overall valuations of their companies vs. TSLA.
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Replace "Tesla" with "Bitcoin," "Peloton," "GoPro," "Palm Pilot," "Blockbuster," "Circuit City," "Enron," "AOL," "Pan Am," "MCI Worldcom," "Level III," "Nokia," etc. and I agree.

Plenty of goliath companies, including many fore-runners, on the pile of carcasses of "too big to fail" to ignore history. It doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes.

ETA: Without massive bailouts in the last 2 decades, you could have easily added several airlines, banks, and financial institutions. Companies fail, even really really big ones.
 
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leadcounsel said:
ETA: Without massive bailouts in the last 2 decades, you could have easily added several airlines, banks, and financial institutions. Companies fail, even really really big ones.
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Yep. Like like GM and Chrysler. Only Ford hasn't been bailed out, of the "big 3". At least Tesla paid their loan off nine years ahead of schedule. And was actually penalized for doing so. Ya can't win!
 
JeffKeryk said:
Yep. Like like GM and Chrysler. Only Ford hasn't been bailed out, of the "big 3". At least Tesla paid their loan off nine years ahead of schedule. And was actually penalized for doing so. Ya can't win!
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I meant to say autos, not banks twice. You are correct.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Banks are hardly exempt. The S&L bailout was a biggie.
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Allow me to simply rewrite the confusing sentence to stop this dance.

Without massive bailouts in the last 2 decades, in addition to the companies I listed, several airlines, banks, and auto companies would have also failed or been crippled badly. Companies fail, even really really big ones.
 
JeffKeryk said:
The Model 3 price now puts the car close to a loaded Camry. Tesla has already blown up the lux market.
The price drop is a shot across the bow of legacy car companies.
The Model 2, or whatever they call it, will be the everyman's Tesla. You know they are working on it.

Tesla's market share continues to grow. Their manufacturing prowess results in industry best margins, which gives them incredible leverage in the market. I am anxious to hear the Investor Relations meeting next week.
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In the past I have agreed with that sentiment, but not so much going forward. If Tesla is targeting growth over anything, they cant remain focused on the luxury market; they need to move towards high volume, low margin economy segment (something the media panned as sacrilege with the whole Toyota margins piece lol). Model 2 is at least a couple years out, so their best bet is to move the 3 and Y down the totem pole. Legacy makers wont/cant approach that segment until 2028-30 at the earliest, but they have a lot of good products in the pipeline that will make sense financially in the luxury market, especially as we move north of 60k.

The model S and X are going to be interesting to see. While I didnt think much of this, I do see those customers actually considering new entrants from Legacy automakers like the BMW I7 and EQS (both induce vomit at first glance but I guess they serve their purpose). I guess old school luxury still has its place.
 
alarmguy said:
Tesla looks nice, Im curious about the GTI. Never owned one, most likely never will, thought about it for decades, Ill never stop liking the look of it and always liked what I think is the unique look.
Curious, have you been happy with it?
Being European I would expect small issues here and there but overall?
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Funny enough that was always my opinion of the GTI. Ended up by the dealer looking for a car for my wife and I finally decided to just do it. I’m up to the 40k mile service now and that isn’t going to be cheap. They still use more traditional service intervals so it’s due for transmission(DSG twin clutch) service and spark plugs. It did have the heater core replaced under warranty. Love the car, a blast to drive, and extremely easy on fuel. I regularly get 33-35 mpg with mostly highway miles for work and some of that is at 80mph.
 
Elon has indicated on many, many occasions that selling a half dozen different model EV's is not his overall goal with Tesla as a corporation. Tesla will have billions and billions of dollars coming in under several highly profitable product categories provided things go according to his plans anyway.

Automakers who are manufacturing EV's are going to have to compete with a tech company that is not only manufacturing EV's but has so much cash available for R&D, new and efficient manufacturing facilities, discounts to address market conditions if necessary and other factors. They will not be bleeding money for unfunded pension liabilities, advertising, maintaining dealer networks, paying for hundreds of thousands of vehicles to be recalled each year and other things that the legacy automakers are saddled with.

Discussions regarding Tesla's future need to keep the big picture in mind. But from reading them on this forum it is apparent that many people overlook or are unaware of these facts.
 
Most cars today have simplified options into option groups which greatly reduced production line complexity and cost.
Tesla has taken this to the next level with few choices: battery/motor, a few colors, wheel size and tech options (AP, etc).
I'm sure some buyers hate this, but from a mfg cost and productivity standpoint, margins surge.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Tesla is turning up the heat on the competition. Their margins and factory speed are formidible weapons.
To your point, the trend is up, skyrocketing. What other car company would be deemed a miss that had 44% growth YOY?

The Highland refresh in Q3 (Elon time, so who the heck knows) should boost sales for customers like me.

As you say, the government subsidies will help Tesla sales. They are available to all car companies, but Tesla's US EV market dominance can be leveraged to grow even faster than the 50% growth forecast. Tesla was almost cheated out of the program, but instead lowered prices and got in.

If you really wanna speculate, what about including any sales of Tesla’s next-generation vehicle, which may be available next year? A low priced Tesla available to the masses? That's Civic Corolla territory. Wait for the March 1st Invertor's Day.

Interesting times ahead.
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Tesla also massively damaged every single existing customer. Its like the Ford Explorer/Firestone situation, minus the wrecks.
 
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