Tesla clandestinely downgrades performance brakes, adds cover to hide it

[97prizm]

Looks like Tesla is at it again. This is a recent post.

Tesla has clandestinely downgraded its performance brakes on the Model Y Performance and even put a cover to hide the change in a deceptive move.

The company now says that the rotor is 2mm thinner with the downgrade.

Here’s also a comparison of the brake pads on both calipers, which clearly shows the Brembo to be more significant in size:

ZEV Centric, who are brake experts, believes this is a significant downgrade and believes Tesla should provide them with the Brembo brakes since the change was not indicated on Tesla’s Model Y configurator.

This seems like A) fraud B) mixing and matching of components that causes more confusion. C) Can we expect Tesla to be honest on future products?

 

[edyvw]

Looks like Tesla is at it again. This is a recent post.

Tesla has clandestinely downgraded its performance brakes on the Model Y Performance and even put a cover to hide the change in a deceptive move.

The company now says that the rotor is 2mm thinner with the downgrade.

Here’s also a comparison of the brake pads on both calipers, which clearly shows the Brembo to be more significant in size:

ZEV Centric, who are brake experts, believes this is a significant downgrade and believes Tesla should provide them with the Brembo brakes since the change was not indicated on Tesla’s Model Y configurator.

This seems like A) fraud B) mixing and matching of components that causes more confusion. C) Can we expect Tesla to be honest on future products?

Dead!

 

[BISCUT]

I'm not defending Tesla as their vehicle isn't for me but the whole clandestine claim in the title weakens the substantive post you've put together. I'm all for accountability and if Tesla violated a US law you can be certain the political crowd will be filing away with suits.

If you held every corporation you bought from to this standard you'd be naked, homeless, and starving to death.

I'm not stating EV's are wholly political but they have a cult-like following from certain politically leaning individuals. For others, they fit their lifestyle rather well. I'm rural so no bueno for me but if I lived in an urban environment they likely would fit me well. This just might be indicative of EV market saturation and falling sales. If correct this is not anything out of the ordinary for manufacturers to do.

Whether consciously right or wrong we are seeing this in a lot of products. My beloved Fram Ultra filters are a prime example. Lots of posts here on the "improved" version and those of us who dif deeper have found inconsistency in materials that don't add up to the date codes.

 

[Torrid]

I've got to say this doesn't please me, but I'm not sure why every thread on this forum has to take the full kill mode approach to something they disagree with on Tesla. I'm sure it's not a real concern to you because you won't be buying one. This make it just less track ready. It's a commuter with stupid power. If I was going to go on the track the last thing I want to drive is an electric car. When it comes to electric cars any rotating mass eats up range which is why thinner rotors would be beneficial. I personally slow and stop my car with regen and when I get down to 2-3 mph the car automatically applies the actual brakes to stop and hold the car with one pedal driving. Commuters will never notice this. Stab the brakes in an emergency stop and they'll stop. Hot lap it a few times and you'll burn the brakes up like every other car on the planet that doesn't have a performance pack of some sort. Less material just means they'll heat and retain heat faster. It's not like they won't have enough power to allow full lockup and ABS to do their thing in an emergency.

 

[edyvw]

Well, how else could we hear: "you know, Tesla has the highest profit margin?"

 

[UncleDave]

You could always pay more and get less - The Audi Q4 Etron get drum brakes long with entire VW ID series MEB platform.

There is a reason several Ev's use drum rear brakes and the biggest one is zero residual drag.

Although I dislike the fake cover the smaller diameter rear will not have much effect on performance overall as re-gen acts like an entire set of tertiary brakes.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

sneaky

 

[OVERKILL]

I've got to say this doesn't please me, but I'm not sure why every thread on this forum has to take the full kill mode approach to something they disagree with on Tesla. I'm sure it's not a real concern to you because you won't be buying one. This make it just less track ready. It's a commuter with stupid power. If I was going to go on the track the last thing I want to drive is an electric car. When it comes to electric cars any rotating mass eats up range which is why thinner rotors would be beneficial. I personally slow and stop my car with regen and when I get down to 2-3 mph the car automatically applies the actual brakes to stop and hold the car with one pedal driving. Commuters will never notice this. Stab the brakes in an emergency stop and they'll stop. Hot lap it a few times and you'll burn the brakes up like every other car on the planet that doesn't have a performance pack of some sort. Less material just means they'll heat and retain heat faster. It's not like they won't have enough power to allow full lockup and ABS to do their thing in an emergency.

Absolutely, but this is the "Performance" version, which should get the Performance brakes one would think. Even the base Grand Cherokee SRT brakes are Brembo (the Performance version) with the upgraded brakes having 2-piece rotors.

 

[LvR]

Looks like Tesla is at it again. This is a recent post.

Tesla has clandestinely downgraded its performance brakes on the Model Y Performance and even put a cover to hide the change in a deceptive move.

The company now says that the rotor is 2mm thinner with the downgrade.

Here’s also a comparison of the brake pads on both calipers, which clearly shows the Brembo to be more significant in size:

ZEV Centric, who are brake experts, believes this is a significant downgrade and believes Tesla should provide them with the Brembo brakes since the change was not indicated on Tesla’s Model Y configurator.

This seems like A) fraud B) mixing and matching of components that causes more confusion. C) Can we expect Tesla to be honest on future products?

Well ........................ if the pic on the left is supposed to show the difference in total surface contact area (iow what matters) and is properly aligned (as opposed to hype) I see no real issue at all ......................

If the pic on the right is supped to compare surface contact area I also see no real issue at all......................... othere tha trying to mislead the reader imo

Question: ........................ What is the total torque applied to the rotating assembly by each of the 2 models? ..................... iow is the clamping force the same in both cases?....................... Is THAT not what is of real importance rather than the poor photography?

 

[97prizm]

My issue is that if a company markets an upgraded item that costs more it shouldn't be magically removed then hidden.

 

[Torrid]

Absolutely, but this is the "Performance" version, which should get the Performance brakes one would think. Even the base Grand Cherokee SRT brakes are Brembo (the Performance version) with the upgraded brakes having 2-piece rotors.

It doesn't though and it never did. Even the Model S Plaid doesn't get "performance" brakes unless you get the performance pack which last time I saw I still couldn't order right now. I think that's why most of their models are just called Performance. They aren't saying what performance it has, just that it has more of it. It's not like it's a Model Y GT or Model Y R. If these were really built that way with massive brakes the range would be worse and they'd cost $15k-$20k more.

I really think the smart buy with Tesla is a base Model 3. Range is close to the same, it's lighter and the handling feels sharper and the brakes are adequate for its performance. Anything more than that weighs over 4k lbs and personally all you are doing is improving the 0-60. I do like the standard Model S for it's insanely high range number though and I struggle to see why the Plaid is needed when the standard already rips off low 3 second 0-60s.

 

[97prizm]

You could always pay more and get less - The Audi Q4 Etron get drum brakes long with entire VW ID series MEB platform.

There is a reason several Ev's use drum rear brakes and the biggest one is zero residual drag.

Although I dislike the fake cover the smaller diameter rear will not have much effect on performance overall as re-gen acts like an entire set of tertiary brakes.

View attachment 149315

That's unacceptable. It's 2023 not 1923. Drum brakes suck to repair, don't cool as well and trap dirt an brake dust. No vehicles in 2023 should have drum brakes. Shoot carbon ceramic rotors should start to become more common now that the tech is well understood.

 

[OVERKILL]

It doesn't though and it never did.

I was pretty sure the Model Y Performance originally came with Brembo's, hence the critique in this thread:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36376244/2020-tesla-model-y-performance-by-the-numbers/

Edit, to add:
Apparently this change, back when it was first reported, only applied to the rears, and the front brakes stayed Brembo:
https://insideevs.com/news/630576/tesla-model-y-performance-plastic-caliper-covers/

Not sure if that's still the case?

 

[97prizm]

It doesn't though and it never did. Even the Model S Plaid doesn't get "performance" brakes unless you get the performance pack which last time I saw I still couldn't order right now. I think that's why most of their models are just called Performance. They aren't saying what performance it has, just that it has more of it. It's not like it's a Model Y GT or Model Y R. If these were really built that way with massive brakes the range would be worse and they'd cost $15k-$20k more.

I really think the smart buy with Tesla is a base Model 3. Range is close to the same, it's lighter and the handling feels sharper and the brakes are adequate for its performance. Anything more than that weighs over 4k lbs and personally all you are doing is improving the 0-60. I do like the standard Model S for it's insanely high range number though and I struggle to see why the Plaid is needed when the standard already rips off low 3 second 0-60s.

Not only that but the plaid won't do sub 2 second 0-60. Tesla was only able to do it with a brand new level blacktop road laid down, wider wheels and tires than come on the plaid, r compound race tires that have very little life and several gallons of vht Trackbite. Randy pobst along with other professional drivers and journalists were extremely disappointed that Tesla played that game.

 

[97prizm]

Well ........................ if the pic on the left is supposed to show the difference in total surface contact area (iow what matters) and is properly aligned (as opposed to hype) I see no real issue at all ......................

If the pic on the right is supped to compare surface contact area I also see no real issue at all......................... othere tha trying to mislead the reader imo

Question: ........................ What is the total torque applied to the rotating assembly by each of the 2 models? ..................... iow is the clamping force the same in both cases?....................... Is THAT not what is of real importance rather than the poor photography?

The rotors were reduced in diameter and thickness which can drastically reduce performance. Second the beake pad material itself. Brembo is usually top notch as many OEM and racecars use them.

 

[LvR]

The rotors were reduced in diameter and thickness which can drastically reduce performance. Second the beake pad material itself. Brembo is usually top notch as many OEM and racecars use them.

That may be the case, but no mention was made of clamping force and thus total applied torque to the rotating assembly ............ me? - I'd say Bah based on the pics reported only

 

[UncleDave]

I was pretty sure the Model Y Performance originally came with Brembo's, hence the critique in this thread:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36376244/2020-tesla-model-y-performance-by-the-numbers/

Edit, to add:
Apparently this change, back when it was first reported, only applied to the rears, and the front brakes stayed Brembo:
https://insideevs.com/news/630576/tesla-model-y-performance-plastic-caliper-covers/

Not sure if that's still the case?

Performance version still comes with Front brembos.

Price was lowered approx 5K for performance version in January and rear brembos was one of the casualties.

 

[OVERKILL]

Performance version still comes with Front brembos.

Price was lowered approx 5K for performance version in January and rear brembos was one of the casualties.

Yeah, see edit, I added that bit (though as a bit of a question posed as to whether anything had changed further).

 

[UncleDave]

That's unacceptable. It's 2023 not 1923. Drum brakes suck to repair, don't cool as well and trap dirt an brake dust. No vehicles in 2023 should have drum brakes. Shoot carbon ceramic rotors should start to become more common now that the tech is well understood.

It very likely going to become more common as budget EV's hit the road.

Pretty sure base corollas and I know base Camrys still use drum rear brakes.

 

[97prizm]

It very likely going to become more common as budget EV's hit the road.

I've never understood with the number of vehicles produced how drum brakes are less expensive than disc brakes?