Tesla at 1.2M miles, only took 14 motors & 4 batteries.

It's battery cells inside of a few dozen modules set on a coolant plate inside of a case. What you're saying is more like "dude! Your cell phone is so unreliable because of all of the circuit board pathways in it!" I mean, yeah, it has a lot, and I'm sure some fail, but noone with an S24 is stressing over it, and once people get more used to EVs, same same. I mean, people drive manuals with a steel sawblade doing 8k rpm a few inches from their ankles and be eating a burger doing makeup completely unbothered, Lol!


Folks may not stress over it. They buy a product and have a reasonable expectation that there is a level of quality and performance.

The cold plate to module or cell group design isn’t new. The dielectric standoff can be a concern but notionally they have it worked out.

The main point I was making wasn’t necessarily relative to your specific battery, but to the general complexity of a well-made EV pack, plus motor controller, drives, and power dense motors. Occasionally you get the comments that an EV has like five components. But if you break down the subcomponents… it’s an huge parts count. Quite possibly more than an ICE! That was my basic point. Every one of these items add complexity, parts count, end design “touches” points of failure” that go beyond the initial parts count. Sure, there’s a saving grace that at least in the macro, some of these parts don’t move much, so that can help but dielectric standoff, heat transfer, behavior in a casualty event, etc. are still very much left to be determined.

While ICE may have higher parts count (which may be debatable when all the busbars, hv components, sense harness leads, etc. are all counted), the reality is that more of the EV parts are both safety and performance critical.

The saving grace of EV is statistically significant and consistent production. That does help, and support applying lessons, a lot.

As I said, I wish you a lot of luck. We need this tech for a range of things well beyond EV. I don’t want these things to fail. I want us to be able to use them better and safer. And there’s still a lot of lessons to learn, especially with operations at high rate, high power, in challenging cooling scenarios, etc.
 
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You are engaged in a debate with someone who develops, designs and builds power systems for US Navy.

He knows every point of failure because he tests them to failure.

They are not as simple, or reliable, as folks, including you, assume.
I was unaware that the Navy fielded EVs. I'd like to know more about this.
 
Noone ever said that. There are just less parts. Those EV motors are cheaper and simpler than the cheapest ICE engine.
That's not how reliability works.

If a junk company make a car with 1/2 the parts they can still be less reliable than a reliable company make a car with 2x the parts. (Nissan vs Toyota in this case).
 
+1 Truth be told a lot of people seem to think that's the case and some even preach it. All they seem to talk about is how great the batteries are, and how long they last and how little they degrade. They seem to forget about the motor/motors. When called out they'll often say the motors are problem free. LOL Bottom line there's no free lunch!!!!
Most people think of wear item.

EV has a big wear item called battery that's expensive, hybrid has a medium size wear item called battery that's less expensive, and gas car has a lot of little things like belts, transmission friction parts, ATF to change, engine oil to change, more brake pads to change, etc.

In the end you are placing a bet on who makes which parts and whether they will wear out too soon or break due to design problems. EV is the same. As you can see the motors should not be replaced 14 times.
 
In my book, EVs are still pretty beta-if Elon & co. could put as much energy into improving battery & drivetrain technology as they do marketing & PR, they would eventually justify their huge P/E ratio!
 
Most people think of wear item.

EV has a big wear item called battery that's expensive, hybrid has a medium size wear item called battery that's less expensive, and gas car has a lot of little things like belts, transmission friction parts, ATF to change, engine oil to change, more brake pads to change, etc.

In the end you are placing a bet on who makes which parts and whether they will wear out too soon or break due to design problems. EV is the same. As you can see the motors should not be replaced 14 times.
Yes, it wears out 5% every 100k miles or so. Terrible.
 
In my book, EVs are still pretty beta-if Elon & co. could put as much energy into improving battery & drivetrain technology as they do marketing & PR, they would eventually justify their huge P/E ratio!
What do you want them to do? They have a Honda accord that runs 10s, is awd, and the battery lasts darn near forever.
 
That's not how reliability works.

If a junk company make a car with 1/2 the parts they can still be less reliable than a reliable company make a car with 2x the parts. (Nissan vs Toyota in this case).
The Nissan bashing is hilarious... I've had one for 11 yrs/115K now and other than the usual wear/tear items it's been flawless. A few Toyotas in the family (past and present) have had a few rather involved issues. Not to mention the typical Toyota appliance design/drive quality, but that's a slightly different subject altogether.
 
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Most people think of wear item.

EV has a big wear item called battery that's expensive, hybrid has a medium size wear item called battery that's less expensive, and gas car has a lot of little things like belts, transmission friction parts, ATF to change, engine oil to change, more brake pads to change, etc.

In the end you are placing a bet on who makes which parts and whether they will wear out too soon or break due to design problems. EV is the same. As you can see the motors should not be replaced 14 times.
I agree, but the EV wear items in question here are are high ticket items, granted there are a lot less of them than an ICE vehicle. In any event going through 14 EV motors to get to 1.2 million miles seems very excessive to me. Certainly nothing to be bragging about imo.
 
I agree, but the EV wear items in question here are are high ticket items, granted there are a lot less of them than an ICE vehicle. In any event going through 14 EV motors to get to 1.2 million miles seems very excessive to me. Certainly nothing to be bragging about imo.
Yeah, it's a Tesla problem. Toyota EV motors for example last hundreds of thousands of miles.
 
Yeah, it's a Tesla problem. Toyota EV motors for example last hundreds of thousands of miles.
I don't know enough about EV motors to comment to be honest. Tesla's competition is young yet, so the jury is out imo to make any real data based comments. One thing for sure, the car referenced here is nothing to be bragging about.
 
I agree, but the EV wear items in question here are are high ticket items, granted there are a lot less of them than an ICE vehicle. In any event going through 14 EV motors to get to 1.2 million miles seems very excessive to me. Certainly nothing to be bragging about imo.
14 motors is hugely excessive. 1.2 miles is a ton of miles.
This car is an outlier in the reality of EV ownership, or any car ownership for that matter.

Here's another outlier with 430K miles on its original motor and battery.
 
I don't know enough about EV motors to comment to be honest. Tesla's competition is young yet, so the jury is out imo to make any real data based comments. One thing for sure, the car referenced here is nothing to be bragging about.
Toyota has been putting EV motors in vehicles for a while now, and they last hundreds of thousands of miles. EV6 owners are well past 200K miles on plenty of original motors and batteries. This is a Tesla problem, just like the catching fire, just like all the other nonsense. That is the blessing and curse of Tesla. Tesla put EV on the map, but now EV is saddled with Tesla's trash reputation, lol!
 
I agree, but the EV wear items in question here are are high ticket items, granted there are a lot less of them than an ICE vehicle. In any event going through 14 EV motors to get to 1.2 million miles seems very excessive to me. Certainly nothing to be bragging about imo.
Motors should not be a wear item. Industrial motors frequently last forever unless abused and only bearings are replaced if brushless.
 
Impressive but, there are plenty of ICE vehicles with original engines and transmissions running around with that many miles or more. IIRC we have a few here on Bitog.
I remember hearing that Honda / Toyota etc only design their engines and transmissions to last 250k miles. If you get more than that great, but nobody design their consumer stuff to last 1M miles like long haul trucks.
 
I remember hearing that Honda / Toyota etc only design their engines and transmissions to last 250k miles. If you get more than that great, but nobody design their consumer stuff to last 1M miles like long haul trucks.
No disagreement here. The Tesla posted about in this thread it seems the motors which as you say should not be wear items aren't lasting that long, so they appear like wear items .
 
Motors should not be a wear item. Industrial motors frequently last forever unless abused and only bearings are replaced if brushless.
Agreed, maybe Tesla is using cheap motors? Not the same build quality as an industrial grade motor?
 
Most of their cars aren't high quality. They use non-automotive rated hardware often.
I can tell by looking at them they're not a high quality item. The paint, and fit and finish depicts to me they lack in quality. JMO but there are people buying them.
 
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