Teen Killed by Honda Odyssey Folding Seat

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?


This is what the kid....... "actually did do". He wasn't, "reaching under the seat". He inverted himself trying to climb over it while it was not properly locked in the upright position. Please explain how this can somehow be translated into being Honda's fault?




All of the possible scenarios have to be taken into consideration when designing something where "kids" are going to be involved. That to me doesn't look that uncommon, dumb, but not uncommon. I've seen adults reach over seats like that. IMO it was tragic and it should be back to the drawing board for Honda, and anyone else that uses that type of seat design.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?


This is what the kid....... "actually did do". He wasn't, "reaching under the seat". He inverted himself trying to climb over it while it was not properly locked in the upright position. Please explain how this can somehow be translated into being Honda's fault?




You didn't answer, before hearing of this, would you have thought inverting oneself in the back seat would have led to an early death? In the legal world, would the average "reasonable" person have known that this could result in an injury? If the answer to that question is no, then a court ruling might very well be that Honda was negligent.

In the real world, Honda settles and changes the design of its future builds, assuming they can keep federal automotive regulators out of the picture.

 

[billt460]

The seat was not properly latched in the down position per the owners manual, period. That is not Honda's fault. If it had been this never would have happened. It was the fault of the owner / operator. The world cannot be fool proofed. Pilots fly airplanes out of fuel. People chop their fingers and hands off with table and chain saws. They shoot themselves with guns. They overdrive powerful cars, motorcycles, and boats beyond their skill level, and kill themselves and others in the process. Babies are scraped off the inside of windshields, because of not being properly contained or restrained in vehicles during crashes. It happens every day of the week.

This is no different. It was rare and unfortunate. But that in itself doesn't make it any less stupid. Or any more the fault of the manufacturer. Using anything mechanical requires a certain level of common sense, in order to be operated in the manner it was designed to be. None was applied here, and the result was tragic. Stupid and entirely preventable, but tragic none the less. That doesn't automatically mean someone else besides the victim has to pay a price for it.

No one else has had this happen to them in this type of vehicle...... Of which there are well over a million on the road. That in itself say's something. There is no "pattern" here. Just a lone single case of a foolish lapse in judgment that cost this kid his life. And even that most likely would not have happened if they had a 911 operator, along with a police department that acted more responsibly. Plenty of blame to go around here. The least of which should be laid at the doorstep of Honda.

 

[DuckRyder]

Been a while since I was in a 2002, but pretty sure those seats have about 3 different latches and each one has a warning on it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?


This is what the kid....... "actually did do". He wasn't, "reaching under the seat". He inverted himself trying to climb over it while it was not properly locked in the upright position. Please explain how this can somehow be translated into being Honda's fault?




You didn't answer, before hearing of this, would you have thought inverting oneself in the back seat would have led to an early death? In the legal world, would the average "reasonable" person have known that this could result in an injury? If the answer to that question is no, then a court ruling might very well be that Honda was negligent.

In the real world, Honda settles and changes the design of its future builds, assuming they can keep federal automotive regulators out of the picture.


I agree, people are quick to point fingers of blame to the person involved because of his age. If he were 3-5 years old and the parents were in the car some people might change their tone. Lucky Honda I guess because that wasn't the case here. The seat wasn't properly latched, so the kid died. Yes some could say his actions were stupid, the police were late, the fact still remains he's dead. It might be time to rethink the latch or the folding mechanism.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: billt460
The seat was not properly latched in the down position per the owners manual, period. That is not Honda's fault. If it had been this never would have happened. It was the fault of the owner / operator. The world cannot be fool proofed...

'If' that is the case, then I completely agree. If seat not latched to floor as designed and OM directed, then can't see how Honda at fault here.

It seems 911 operator didn't exactly do stellar follow up and follow through.

At the end of the day though, a tragic accident. And whoever if anyone ends up paying isn't going to bring the deceased back.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It might be time to rethink the latch or the folding mechanism.


"Rethink it" how? How much simpler can they possibly make it? I mean for God's sakes at some point you have to ask, if someone is so stupid they can't properly latch a seat, that has stickers all over it showing you how to do it, then perhaps they should stay away from vehicles all together. If one person lacks the common sense to operate something so simple, that in itself should not force a company to have to redesign something.

And if they did it voluntarily, that alone could be taken by some slick lawyer, and translated into guilt.... "If there was nothing wrong with it, why did they change it after this happened?" No, I'm afraid the best thing for Honda to do at this point, is absolutely NOTHING.

 

[cjcride]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It might be time to rethink the latch or the folding mechanism.


"Rethink it" how? How much simpler can they possibly make it? I mean for God's sakes at some point you have to ask, if someone is so stupid they can't properly latch a seat, that has stickers all over it showing you how to do it, then perhaps they should stay away from vehicles all together. If one person lacks the common sense to operate something so simple, that in itself should not force a company to have to redesign something.

And if they did it voluntarily, that alone could be taken by some slick lawyer, and translated into guilt.... "If there was nothing wrong with it, why did they change it after this happened?" No, I'm afraid the best thing for Honda to do at this point, is absolutely NOTHING.

They could add a pressure sensor like on an automatic garage door closer. It would reverse if it 'felt' too much resistance.

You are probably correct about the liability.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It might be time to rethink the latch or the folding mechanism.


"Rethink it" how? How much simpler can they possibly make it? I mean for God's sakes at some point you have to ask, if someone is so stupid they can't properly latch a seat, that has stickers all over it showing you how to do it, then perhaps they should stay away from vehicles all together. If one person lacks the common sense to operate something so simple, that in itself should not force a company to have to redesign something.

And if they did it voluntarily, that alone could be taken by some slick lawyer, and translated into guilt.... "If there was nothing wrong with it, why did they change it after this happened?" No, I'm afraid the best thing for Honda to do at this point, is absolutely NOTHING.


You fail to miss a very important point. It could have just as easily been a kid that wasn't old enough to read, with mom and pop in the front seat that didn't see what was going on...... Maybe you'd see it differently then. FTR- We can agree to disagree.

 

[Hootbro]

In this instance, if there is any liability litigation against Honda over this, I hope they fight it and knock it down with the force of Thor's Hammer. Just because someone finally bred a better idiot, does not make this Honda's problem.

 

[Tdog02]

This is just a horrific accident, nothing more. Heartbreaking, but an accident.

 

[thrace]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Been a while since I was in a 2002, but pretty sure those seats have about 3 different latches and each one has a warning on it.
Just looked at my 2002 Odyssey in garage. Two pull handles to fully fold seat with muscle power. No warnings. Owners manual has no warnings.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
You fail to miss a very important point. It could have just as easily been a kid that wasn't old enough to read,.......


But it wasn't. This kid was 16 years old. That is minimum legal age in most states for driving a car unsupervised. If he was old enough to legally operate the vehicle, he is old enough to be able to figure out how a folding seat works without killing himself.

 

[brianl703]

Cellphones have been required to have GPS capability for 911 use for many years now, why didn't 911 get the GPS position when he called?

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Cellphones have been required to have GPS capability for 911 use for many years now, why didn't 911 get the GPS position when he called?


Not exactly how GPS works on cell phones. Many cell phones are receivers of GPS signal and not broadcasting of a GPS signal. Cell phone tracking of a particular phone is through the cell service triangulation of the cell service signal through cell service towers. That information is not readily accessible in real time for a situation like this.

 

[brianl703]

Any phone with a GPS should be using handset-based location, not network-based location (triangulation).

Carriers are required to provide the latitude and longitude of a caller to the PSAP:

Quote:

Under Phase II, the FCC requires wireless carriers, within six months of a valid request by a PSAP, to begin providing information that is more precise to PSAPs, specifically, the latitude and longitude of the caller. This information must meet FCC accuracy standards, generally to within 50 to 300 meters, depending on the type of technology used. The deployment of E911 requires the development of new technologies and upgrades to local 911 PSAPs, as well as coordination among public safety agencies, wireless carriers, technology vendors, equipment manufacturers, and local wireline carriers.

 

[bbhero]

I do agree with you billt460.

I wonder what would have happened in a rear or frontal accident with that seat not properly latched in or secured properly??? Likely that would not have been a good result either.


I do agree though at the end of the day.. this was a terrible accident. That could have been avoided. I do feel bad for the young fella's family. Tough, tough, tough on them.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
I wonder what would have happened in a rear or frontal accident with that seat not properly latched in or secured properly??? Likely that would not have been a good result either.

This is the one thing I wonder. If the seat isn't set up just so, and can tip with someone reaching backwards, what's going to happen in a collision?

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: bbhero
I wonder what would have happened in a rear or frontal accident with that seat not properly latched in or secured properly??? Likely that would not have been a good result either.

This is the one thing I wonder. If the seat isn't set up just so, and can tip with someone reaching backwards, what's going to happen in a collision?


Seems like we probably should start doing inspections before every driving event similar to what is done with aircraft: lugnuts tight, all lights working, mirrors adjusted, all gauges working, fluid levels, loose fasteners, brake function, seats latched... A glitch with any one of these things could result in death under certain circumstances.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
You fail to miss a very important point. It could have just as easily been a kid that wasn't old enough to read,.......


But it wasn't. This kid was 16 years old. That is minimum legal age in most states for driving a car unsupervised. If he was old enough to legally operate the vehicle, he is old enough to be able to figure out how a folding seat works without killing himself.


That was exactly the reply I was expecting.

How could it possibly be a design flaw from Honda, or something that needs to be rethought? I wonder if it were a 3 year old if it would change anything? I hope we never find out.........