Seems inherently dangerous if you ask me.
Teen Killed by Honda Odyssey Folding Seat
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One very large personal injury lawsuit in the making here. I expect the family has already heard from several of the major law firms which exist just to sue the pants off of manufacturers.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Bad chain of events leading to a death and preventable too. Siri almost saved him. Maybe they can improve the service to somehow send the distress out with GSP coordinates with double confirmation to 911.
This happened relatively 'local' to me. As I understand it, he told them where he was and in a Honda minivan and the police arrived at his school's parking lot where he was but couldn't locate him. I'm not sure how big the parking lot is, how many cars, etc (looking at Google satellite view, it's not big at all).
Bad chain of events leading to a death and preventable too. Siri almost saved him. Maybe they can improve the service to somehow send the distress out with GSP coordinates with double confirmation to 911.
This happened relatively 'local' to me. As I understand it, he told them where he was and in a Honda minivan and the police arrived at his school's parking lot where he was but couldn't locate him. I'm not sure how big the parking lot is, how many cars, etc (looking at Google satellite view, it's not big at all).
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Poor kid indeed, but being 16 year old I wonder the circumstances that put him in that position. I have a feeling he might've been trying to do something stupid.
Yeap, it's the kid's fault.... He was in his van, reaching over the 3rd-row to get his sports equipment, and somehow the bench un-latched, then pivoted and pinched him. I'm sure you'd say "he should have opened the tailgate and got his stuff" though....
Poor kid indeed, but being 16 year old I wonder the circumstances that put him in that position. I have a feeling he might've been trying to do something stupid.
Yeap, it's the kid's fault.... He was in his van, reaching over the 3rd-row to get his sports equipment, and somehow the bench un-latched, then pivoted and pinched him. I'm sure you'd say "he should have opened the tailgate and got his stuff" though....
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Yah-Tah-Hey said:
It amazes me that people could actually think it was somehow the kid's fault. Honda screwed up, it's that simple in my book.
This happened local to us.
A horrible event made worse by the responding officers being unable to locate the subject vehicle and save the subject.
I don't really buy the blame the dispatcher meme and think that this was just a matter of the first responders being unable to see the entrapped young man and given the location maybe writing the call off as a prank.
A freak accident that's unlikely to be serious lawsuit bait, although both Honda and the local law will likely be served.
A horrible event made worse by the responding officers being unable to locate the subject vehicle and save the subject.
I don't really buy the blame the dispatcher meme and think that this was just a matter of the first responders being unable to see the entrapped young man and given the location maybe writing the call off as a prank.
A freak accident that's unlikely to be serious lawsuit bait, although both Honda and the local law will likely be served.
Originally Posted By: nthach
I'm pretty sure a provision of FMVSS 135 dictates that there is power to the brake light circuit at all times. All the cars I've driven have power to the stop light switch at all times.
This is so the battery will go flat, forcing the operator to fix the shorted brake switch and make it safe again.
I'm pretty sure a provision of FMVSS 135 dictates that there is power to the brake light circuit at all times. All the cars I've driven have power to the stop light switch at all times.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
It seems like the thread Title should read: Teen killed by incompetent 911 Operator.
This^. This tragedy didn't even have to happen, he called 911 twice and the dispatcher thought it was a prank so only relayed minimal info to the officers in the field and based on the minimal info couldn't find him. RIP.
It seems like the thread Title should read: Teen killed by incompetent 911 Operator.
This^. This tragedy didn't even have to happen, he called 911 twice and the dispatcher thought it was a prank so only relayed minimal info to the officers in the field and based on the minimal info couldn't find him. RIP.
Originally Posted By: nthach
I'm pretty sure a provision of FMVSS 135 dictates that there is power to the brake light circuit at all times. All the cars I've driven have power to the stop light switch at all times.
That may be true in the Kollective, but it doesn’t change the way my Forester works. Please tell me why you’d need the brake lights to work when the key is off? The hazard circuit works (obviously) but it makes perfect sense to me to not have any other possible battery drains. Same thing with headlights- it’s almost impossible to have headlights kill your battery thru forgetfulness when the key has to be in the ignition and dinging when the door opens...
And to the other poster about the odometer, it’s just the readout, not the actual mileage memory. This is the thing I think is doltish. Who cares about reading the mileage if the car is off?
I'm pretty sure a provision of FMVSS 135 dictates that there is power to the brake light circuit at all times. All the cars I've driven have power to the stop light switch at all times.
That may be true in the Kollective, but it doesn’t change the way my Forester works. Please tell me why you’d need the brake lights to work when the key is off? The hazard circuit works (obviously) but it makes perfect sense to me to not have any other possible battery drains. Same thing with headlights- it’s almost impossible to have headlights kill your battery thru forgetfulness when the key has to be in the ignition and dinging when the door opens...
And to the other poster about the odometer, it’s just the readout, not the actual mileage memory. This is the thing I think is doltish. Who cares about reading the mileage if the car is off?
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It amazes me that people could actually think it was somehow the kid's fault. Honda screwed up, it's that simple in my book.
Why does it, "amaze you" so much? There is plenty of blame to go around here. The only thing that makes Honda stand out, is they have the deepest pockets. So that is who everyone will line up against. Because establishing "blame" itself is worthless, unless there is a big payday associated with it.
As unfortunate as this accident was, this kid managed to put himself into a stupid position by being lazy, and got trapped as a direct result. That is not a cruel viewpoint. But rather a factual one. Add to that an irresponsible 911 Operator, along with an inept police department. Who appears to have difficulty finding their a$$ with both hands, and this is the result. How many people have died as a direct result of the Honda Odyssey rear seat design? I'm willing to bet until this kid came along, it was a grand total of none in the over 14 years, and millions of vehicles that have been sold. So just how "dangerous" does that make it?
At some point, when operating ANY piece of machinery, common sense has to kick in. If not, then you shouldn't be operating it. The world cannot be "fool proofed", regardless of how much people are dumbing down. We have the government "protecting us" in some way, by manipulating designs in everything from gas cans to electric kitchen knives. And most everything in between. And what they can't manage to "improve", they either ban, or else try to. And people, both young and old, still manage to find ways to hurt themselves. Applying common sense should always come before placing blame. Especially after something bad happens because you didn't.
It amazes me that people could actually think it was somehow the kid's fault. Honda screwed up, it's that simple in my book.
Why does it, "amaze you" so much? There is plenty of blame to go around here. The only thing that makes Honda stand out, is they have the deepest pockets. So that is who everyone will line up against. Because establishing "blame" itself is worthless, unless there is a big payday associated with it.
As unfortunate as this accident was, this kid managed to put himself into a stupid position by being lazy, and got trapped as a direct result. That is not a cruel viewpoint. But rather a factual one. Add to that an irresponsible 911 Operator, along with an inept police department. Who appears to have difficulty finding their a$$ with both hands, and this is the result. How many people have died as a direct result of the Honda Odyssey rear seat design? I'm willing to bet until this kid came along, it was a grand total of none in the over 14 years, and millions of vehicles that have been sold. So just how "dangerous" does that make it?
At some point, when operating ANY piece of machinery, common sense has to kick in. If not, then you shouldn't be operating it. The world cannot be "fool proofed", regardless of how much people are dumbing down. We have the government "protecting us" in some way, by manipulating designs in everything from gas cans to electric kitchen knives. And most everything in between. And what they can't manage to "improve", they either ban, or else try to. And people, both young and old, still manage to find ways to hurt themselves. Applying common sense should always come before placing blame. Especially after something bad happens because you didn't.
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My parents were strict about what you could joke about … explaining it could cost someone else … why did this 911 operator think like that?
When I have been trained in emergency response … they say “no regrets” for responding even if we later find it’s not out of hand … as a minimum it will “test the system” …
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
When I have been trained in emergency response … they say “no regrets” for responding even if we later find it’s not out of hand … as a minimum it will “test the system” …
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It amazes me that people could actually think it was somehow the kid's fault. Honda screwed up, it's that simple in my book.
As unfortunate as this accident was, this kid managed to put himself into a stupid position by being lazy, and got trapped as a direct result. That is not a cruel viewpoint. But rather a factual one.
You are calling your opinion fact. The reality is we have no idea why the kid chose to do this. Lazy is your opinion and view, not fact. Also you for a fact have no idea if the hatch was broken to the van possibly resulting into this course of actions.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It amazes me that people could actually think it was somehow the kid's fault. Honda screwed up, it's that simple in my book.
As unfortunate as this accident was, this kid managed to put himself into a stupid position by being lazy, and got trapped as a direct result. That is not a cruel viewpoint. But rather a factual one.
You are calling your opinion fact. The reality is we have no idea why the kid chose to do this. Lazy is your opinion and view, not fact. Also you for a fact have no idea if the hatch was broken to the van possibly resulting into this course of actions.
Nobody was asking for facts when Honda was being blamed, the moment the other possibility is mentioned, that perhaps this 16 year old was doing something he shouldn't have, something totally plausible with teenagers, facts all of the sudden are demanded.
I never blamed this kid, but I'm not going to blame Honda either because we have little information. I simply mentioned another possibility since blaming Honda seemed like a common theme.
I never blamed this kid, but I'm not going to blame Honda either because we have little information. I simply mentioned another possibility since blaming Honda seemed like a common theme.
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Another and perhaps most likely possibility is that this was simply an unfortunate accident and perhaps there is no one in particular to blame. Something that is hard to understand these days.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Nobody was asking for facts when Honda was being blamed, the moment the other possibility is mentioned, that perhaps this 16 year old was doing something he shouldn't have, something totally plausible with teenagers, facts all of the sudden are demanded.
Exactly. The kid was in fact reaching over the back of the seat, placing himself in a precarious position. He could have simply walked around to the back of the vehicle, opened the tailgate, and retrieved whatever it was he was trying to get. That kids laziness doesn't automatically make Honda the bad guy in this.
Nobody was asking for facts when Honda was being blamed, the moment the other possibility is mentioned, that perhaps this 16 year old was doing something he shouldn't have, something totally plausible with teenagers, facts all of the sudden are demanded.
Exactly. The kid was in fact reaching over the back of the seat, placing himself in a precarious position. He could have simply walked around to the back of the vehicle, opened the tailgate, and retrieved whatever it was he was trying to get. That kids laziness doesn't automatically make Honda the bad guy in this.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
You are calling your opinion fact. The reality is we have no idea why the kid chose to do this.
It doesn't matter why he chose to do this. It's not an opinion this kid put himself into that position. Honda didn't. It is also not opinion that his actions, and his alone got himself trapped. Yes, the whole thing is unfortunate. But we're not dealing with a high percentage of injuries due to this vehicles design. It's not a Pinto gas tank in that regard. I looked and could find no one else who was killed by getting trapped in a Honda Odyssey rear seat. And if there were, you would be reading about it everywhere. That makes his actions even more suspect. Regardless of what his reasons were for taking them.
You are calling your opinion fact. The reality is we have no idea why the kid chose to do this.
It doesn't matter why he chose to do this. It's not an opinion this kid put himself into that position. Honda didn't. It is also not opinion that his actions, and his alone got himself trapped. Yes, the whole thing is unfortunate. But we're not dealing with a high percentage of injuries due to this vehicles design. It's not a Pinto gas tank in that regard. I looked and could find no one else who was killed by getting trapped in a Honda Odyssey rear seat. And if there were, you would be reading about it everywhere. That makes his actions even more suspect. Regardless of what his reasons were for taking them.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Very sad story. I had no idea folding seats could be potentially dangerous.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43733758
IMHO this falls under the heading of unfortunate accident on many levels. I don't think any single event bears sole responsibility.
Very sad story. I had no idea folding seats could be potentially dangerous.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43733758
IMHO this falls under the heading of unfortunate accident on many levels. I don't think any single event bears sole responsibility.
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?
Don't all raise your hands at once now.
Don't all raise your hands at once now.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?
This is what the kid....... "actually did do". He wasn't, "reaching under the seat". He inverted himself trying to climb over it while it was not properly locked in the upright position. Please explain how this can somehow be translated into being Honda's fault?
In all honesty, how many of you posters with the "the kid did something and it is his own fault he got killed" would have known that reaching under the seat (or whatever it is that he actually did do) could lead to a fatal injury?
This is what the kid....... "actually did do". He wasn't, "reaching under the seat". He inverted himself trying to climb over it while it was not properly locked in the upright position. Please explain how this can somehow be translated into being Honda's fault?
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