"Tainting" new oil by just Drain & Fill ??

[raytseng]

Ask your friend if he gets a colonic after every poop to ensure his entire digestive tract is clean, otherwise his intestines are tainted for today's meals.

There's "by-the-book" which mean they will follow a particular book or a particular authority on the subject and be flexible to change their minds if shown the new book.

Then there's "by-the-book" which means someone who are just stubborn and wanting to do things in their way they think is right.

E.g. the Honda "Book" indicates to change filter every other oil change, so a true "by the book" fellow would appreciate that new knowledge.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Ask your friend if he gets a colonic after every poop to ensure his entire digestive tract is clean, otherwise his intestines are tainted for today's meals.

There's "by-the-book" which mean they will follow a particular book or a particular authority on the subject and be flexible to change their minds if shown the new book.

Then there's "by-the-book" which means someone who are just stubborn and wanting to do things in their way they think is right.

E.g. the Honda "Book" indicates to change filter every other oil change, so a true "by the book" fellow would appreciate that new knowledge.


Well said! I don't know which book states that 0.25 quarts in the oil filter contaminate the oil so it's useless after 1k.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: raytseng
Ask your friend if he gets a colonic after every poop to ensure his entire digestive tract is clean, otherwise his intestines are tainted for today's meals.

There's "by-the-book" which mean they will follow a particular book or a particular authority on the subject and be flexible to change their minds if shown the new book.

Then there's "by-the-book" which means someone who are just stubborn and wanting to do things in their way they think is right.

E.g. the Honda "Book" indicates to change filter every other oil change, so a true "by the book" fellow would appreciate that new knowledge.


Well said! I don't know which book states that 0.25 quarts in the oil filter contaminate the oil so it's useless after 1k.


There is no such book, only scared, ignorant people.

 

[CT8]

It taint so.

 

[hatt]

I'm not understanding what's going on here. You can drain all the oil out of the filter housing without removing it. So there will be no appreciable quantity of old oil than a regular change would leave. And why change the oil at 5K.

 

[ptkdude]

This is exactly why my oil change process is as follows:

Drain old oil, replace filter, and refill with new oil.
Run engine for 5 minutes.
Repeat 4 times.

That way I KNOW all the old oil is gone, and I only use 14 quarts of oil and 4 filters per oil change.

 

[SilverC6]

No wrong answer here.

Me, personally, new oil and new filter every time.

Because I don't half [censored] stuff.

Others see it differently.

They aren't wrong.

But I'm not wrong.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: ptkdude
This is exactly why my oil change process is as follows:

Drain old oil, replace filter, and refill with new oil.
Run engine for 5 minutes.
Repeat 4 times.

That way I KNOW all the old oil is gone, and I only use 14 quarts of oil and 4 filters per oil change.


LMAO!

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
A friend of mine, a real "by the book" kinda guy. Disagrees with me that doing a mid OCI "drain and fill" is usefull/useless.

I like to do a drain and fill every 5k on my '13 Camry with 36k running TGMO and Toyota Filter element.

He claims that the .25 quarts in the filter taints the new oil significantly and causes it to be "old oil" within just 1k miles rather than the top performance of the oil if done at 10k as a full filter and complete oil change. In other word he says its ruining the new oil.

So, your thoughts on how mixing a bit of old oil with 4 quarts of brand new may ... age or taint the new.


Complete and utter nonsense. He obviously hasn't got a clue and it's pointless trying to change his mind. If that's his story he will stick to it no matter what evidence you show him that the idea is utterly absurd.
Honda specified only changing the filter every second interval for years,and those engines ran forever.
The entire idea is nonsense and laughable.

 

[Shannow]

Couple of points :

* lots of manufacturers do every second oil change filters.

* one of the big mixing disasters was a taxi fleet where residual oil from the FF was incompatible with the replacement oil and caused a massive loss of cold temperature performance, and engine failures.

* part of the effectiveness of the AW additives in engine oil is that partial breakdown species when the ZDDP and MODTC become any number of other species, and contribute significantly to the AW films.

My view ?

If changing oil brands, change the filter too.

If you've got a good maintenance history (i.e. not much to filter), and are keeping the same oil at change time, keep the filter and the used oil within it.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No wrong answer here.

Me, personally, new oil and new filter every time.

Because I don't half [censored] stuff.

Others see it differently.

They aren't wrong.

But I'm not wrong.


The following is a general response, not meant as an accusation or to offend:

Using a product for an appropriate interval is not half-assing it. IMO, people who severely over or under-maintain their equipment ARE wrong


There is a right answer, and that is striving for efficiency. We're all wrong most of the time, but its the 'striving' part that's important, not simply making choices based on out-dated philosophies and conjecture.

 

[meborder]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No wrong answer here.

Me, personally, new oil and new filter every time.

Because I don't half [censored] stuff.

Others see it differently.

They aren't wrong.

But I'm not wrong.


The following is a general response, not meant as an accusation or to offend:

Using a product for an appropriate interval is not half-assing it. IMO, people who severely over or under-maintain their equipment ARE wrong


There is a right answer, and that is striving for efficiency. We're all wrong most of the time, but its the 'striving' part that's important, not simply making choices based on out-dated philosophies and conjecture.



With all respect, that's just your opinion.

One might look at the way I do things as extremely inefficient, but its all a matter of perspective.

With regard to maintenance, every year I try to change the transmission fluid, power steering fluid, plow fluid, and engine oil on the plow truck. I also let it idle to warm up, and if I have to stop plowing for any reason, I let it idle indefinitely until on done plowing -- even if it might be an hour or more.

Why? Because I've learned that you CANNOT over maintain such a tool. When you need it, you NEED it and it NEEDS to work, or you are screwed. Better spend a few bucks in fluid to assure it is in tip-top condition, or you might be wishing you had.

Same goes for the inefficiency of idling. Does it waste gas? Yup, but laying on the ground in the snow under the truck with a heat gun trying to thaw out the starter is extremely inefficient with respect to time. Not to mention that it is ZERO fun.

You can't look at someone else's choices and condemn them as wrong simply because you would do them different or it doesn't align with your world view. There may be things going on you simply don't understand.
[/rant]

 

[Branson304]

That's ridiculous. The small amount of old oil left in the filter is almost irrelevant compared to the fresh oil you're going to put in the sump. And it's definitely not going to taint the new oil. That's seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard oil-related.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: meborder
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No wrong answer here.

Me, personally, new oil and new filter every time.

Because I don't half [censored] stuff.

Others see it differently.

They aren't wrong.

But I'm not wrong.


The following is a general response, not meant as an accusation or to offend:

Using a product for an appropriate interval is not half-assing it. IMO, people who severely over or under-maintain their equipment ARE wrong


There is a right answer, and that is striving for efficiency. We're all wrong most of the time, but its the 'striving' part that's important, not simply making choices based on out-dated philosophies and conjecture.



With all respect, that's just your opinion.

One might look at the way I do things as extremely inefficient, but its all a matter of perspective.

With regard to maintenance, every year I try to change the transmission fluid, power steering fluid, plow fluid, and engine oil on the plow truck. I also let it idle to warm up, and if I have to stop plowing for any reason, I let it idle indefinitely until on done plowing -- even if it might be an hour or more.

Why? Because I've learned that you CANNOT over maintain such a tool. When you need it, you NEED it and it NEEDS to work, or you are screwed. Better spend a few bucks in fluid to assure it is in tip-top condition, or you might be wishing you had.

Same goes for the inefficiency of idling. Does it waste gas? Yup, but laying on the ground in the snow under the truck with a heat gun trying to thaw out the starter is extremely inefficient with respect to time. Not to mention that it is ZERO fun.

You can't look at someone else's choices and condemn them as wrong simply because you would do them different or it doesn't align with your world view. There may be things going on you simply don't understand.
[/rant]


That my post was an opinion was very clearly stated.

I condemned no choice, but responded specifically to the "half-assed" comment, with pretty much your same logic, so...

 

[camrydriver111]

If you are spending excess time and money maintaining something, the result produces no measurable benefit, and your time and money could be better spent elsewhere then are over-maintaining it.

 

[aircooled]

I could buy a nice deli sandwich once a year if I don't change my oil filter every oil change.
(Better for my weight if I buy the oil filter!)

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Couple of points :
...My view ?

If changing oil brands, change the filter too.

If you've got a good maintenance history (i.e. not much to filter), and are keeping the same oil at change time, keep the filter and the used oil within it.


Good stuff to know. Thanks for posting that info Shannow.

I'm in the camp where that 8-10 oz of old oil in the filter and galleries sitting above it is 5% of a 5 qt oil change. I don't consider that irrelevant regardless of the OEM oil filter recommendations. If I have to do oil changes more often, then I'll use a less costly oil and filter. And if I wanted to save some money down the road, that's much more effectively done by avoiding the $500 or more a year I spend on nutritionless processed foods.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: aircooled
I could buy a nice deli sandwich once a year if I don't change my oil filter every oil change.
(Better for my weight if I buy the oil filter!)


I can reach under and open my Fumoto valve and let it drain for however long it takes. When it's done draining, I shut the valve and refill the sump with oil and walk away without any mess, and clean hands.

My total actual time to change the oil, including cleanup, is reduced.

With the extra time you spend (possibly to most likely) needlessly changing your filter I'm relaxing or doing other things, like eating a deli sandwich.

 

[raytseng]

The logic puzzle is that you shouldn't have run your oil so long thst the 8oz of old oil is so bad that you are worried about it.

If it worries you, what about the thousand miles prior to the change where you were basically running with 100% tainted oil?

 

[Danh]

I think the "tainted oil" concern goes back to the 1960s and prior, when oil filters were comparatively huge. It wasn't uncommon then to have refill specs of 5 quarts with filter and 4 quarts without, so with residual engine oil 30% of the fresh fill could be old oil absent a filter change. Filters today seem to hold only .2 quarts or so, making the issue more-or-less inconsequential.

Same generation as the 3,000 mile oil change philosophy and probably about as valid. (That said, I still tend to change my filter every OCI because it's pretty cheap and easy.)