Synthetic oil snafus

[spock1]

Originally Posted By: BullyT
The manual for my BMW 7-Series is very specific that only synthetic oil should be used, and an "approved long-life" oil at that. Based on my oil life monitor I could change the oil every 25,000 km (15,000 miles) but I change it at 15,000 km. The car now has 330,000 km on it and the engine is a smooth as ever and burns no oil. Inspection when I had the oil pump checked showed an exceptionally clean engine.

I have not heard of sludge build up in a vehicle where synthetic oil has been used. I'm not saying it doesn't happen--just saying that I haven't heard of it.

I put synthetic oil through my own unplanned torture test. My wife had a brain tumour removed two years ago, and several days later she collapsed at home. I got a panic call from our daughter and headed home while my daughter called 911. On my way home, in rush hour, my water pump seized on the highway and I lost all coolant. I pulled over but was on an out of town stretch of highway and I figured it would take an hour or more for a tow vehicle to arrive. I called my daughter, and the paramedics were at my house and transferring my wife to an ambulance. My daughter was 15 at the time and obviously frantic. I decided that the BMW engine was "only money" and drove the car over 15 miles with no coolant, no fan belt, no fan...nothing. Temp gauge was off the scale. Went straight to the hospital. Fortunately my wife's condition was only due to low blood pressure due to the surgery. The next day I got my BMW to a good local mechanic who checked everything over. He had to replace the cooling components (water pump, fan belt, fan) but the engine was running perfectly. No blown headgasket...no coolant in the oil. The mechanic said "these things hold 8 litres of synthetic oil...that's probably saved your engine". Not a scientific explanation...nothing more than an opinion really...but I do believe synthetic oil provides an extra margin of protection especially under extreme conditions. IMHO.

'Wow!
That should remove any doubt from the "Doubting Thomases"out there.If that doesn't do it,I give up.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: spock1
Originally Posted By: BullyT
The manual for my BMW 7-Series is very specific that only synthetic oil should be used, and an "approved long-life" oil at that. Based on my oil life monitor I could change the oil every 25,000 km (15,000 miles) but I change it at 15,000 km. The car now has 330,000 km on it and the engine is a smooth as ever and burns no oil. Inspection when I had the oil pump checked showed an exceptionally clean engine.

I have not heard of sludge build up in a vehicle where synthetic oil has been used. I'm not saying it doesn't happen--just saying that I haven't heard of it.

I put synthetic oil through my own unplanned torture test. My wife had a brain tumour removed two years ago, and several days later she collapsed at home. I got a panic call from our daughter and headed home while my daughter called 911. On my way home, in rush hour, my water pump seized on the highway and I lost all coolant. I pulled over but was on an out of town stretch of highway and I figured it would take an hour or more for a tow vehicle to arrive. I called my daughter, and the paramedics were at my house and transferring my wife to an ambulance. My daughter was 15 at the time and obviously frantic. I decided that the BMW engine was "only money" and drove the car over 15 miles with no coolant, no fan belt, no fan...nothing. Temp gauge was off the scale. Went straight to the hospital. Fortunately my wife's condition was only due to low blood pressure due to the surgery. The next day I got my BMW to a good local mechanic who checked everything over. He had to replace the cooling components (water pump, fan belt, fan) but the engine was running perfectly. No blown headgasket...no coolant in the oil. The mechanic said "these things hold 8 litres of synthetic oil...that's probably saved your engine". Not a scientific explanation...nothing more than an opinion really...but I do believe synthetic oil provides an extra margin of protection especially under extreme conditions. IMHO.

'Wow!
That should remove any doubt from the "Doubting Thomases"out there.If that doesn't do it,I give up.


I agree, and that's why I run synthetic oil in anything I don't consider a beater.

Better protection at start-up, better at high heat, better at extreme cold, and better when an engine has to run in an emergency w/o the cooling system. I'd rather have the added margin of protection a synthetic offers, and pay a little more for it. I call it insurance, I pay a lot for insurance on my house, cars, and business, it's there if I need it. For me synthetic oil is cheap insurance for investments I want to insure.

 

[Vikas]

Let us start a new topic listing all of the oil related failures your engines have suffered in your lifetime. No anecdotes from your brother's wife's cousin's nephew though! Only first hand experience need to be listed.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let us start a new topic listing all of the oil related failures your engines have suffered in your lifetime. No anecdotes from your brother's wife's cousin's nephew though! Only first hand experience need to be listed.



Might be a lonely thread.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let us start a new topic listing all of the oil related failures your engines have suffered in your lifetime.



-'84 VW GTI, oil leaking from oil pan and head gasket

-'93 VW Eurovan, oil leaking from oil pan and main seal

-'88 Camry Wagon. consumption through valve stem stems, main seal leak

-'92 740T wagon, leak from valve cover, cam seals (twice), turbo oil seal

-'96 850 Wagon, leak from cam seals.

-'98 V70R, leak from cam seals (twice), turbo seal leak (3 times)

These are all failures of the lubricating system in my book. After all, the oil's supposed to stay in the car, right?

 

[Capa]

Funny how the dino guys can't envision any oil related failures.

 

[Zaedock]

I have never had any oil related failures. I did spin a rod bearing once, but I didn't have a tether in my trail rig and couldn't reach the ignition upside down. Not the oils fault.

Also, to the post above, gaskets and seals are not oil related failures.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock

Also, to the post above, gaskets and seals are not oil related failures.


says you. I disagree.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Zaedock

Also, to the post above, gaskets and seals are not oil related failures.


says you. I disagree.


Because you're not a mechanic and don't know any better.

 

[JAG]

Since most engines wear out (metals and oil-sealing gaskets) rather than die of catastrophic failure, it only makes sense to consider both types of events, especially the more common one.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Let us start a new topic listing all of the oil related failures your engines have suffered in your lifetime.



-'84 VW GTI, oil leaking from oil pan and head gasket

-'93 VW Eurovan, oil leaking from oil pan and main seal

-'88 Camry Wagon. consumption through valve stem stems, main seal leak

-'92 740T wagon, leak from valve cover, cam seals (twice), turbo oil seal

-'96 850 Wagon, leak from cam seals.

-'98 V70R, leak from cam seals (twice), turbo seal leak (3 times)

These are all failures of the lubricating system in my book. After all, the oil's supposed to stay in the car, right?


An interesting perspective.
I can't say I see the affect on engine gaskets but with regard
to engine seals, particularly value guide seals, I can see a case being made in favour of high VI oils.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Zaedock

Also, to the post above, gaskets and seals are not oil related failures.


says you. I disagree.


Because you're not a mechanic and don't know any better.


because you are a mechanic and have a myopic view of the role of a lubricant?

Get snarky all you want, but a lubricant's purpose is much more than protecting the engine's metallic parts. I'd suggest you're the one demonstrating a lack of understanding.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: JOD
because you are a mechanic and have a myopic view of the role of a lubricant?

Get snarky all you want, but a lubricant's purpose is much more than protecting the engine's metallic parts. I'd suggest you're the one demonstrating a lack of understanding.


I'm myopic? You're the one who thinks motor oil blew a head gasket.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

An interesting perspective.
I can't say I see the affect on engine gaskets but with regard
to engine seals, particularly value guide seals, I can see a case being made in favour of high VI oils.


No question, it's supposition on my part that higher pressures have a deleterious effect on gaskets, but I don't think it's much of a stretch. Oil pressure which is higher than necessary is going to exert more pressure than necessary on the gaskets, pretty much by definition--and pressure is one of the causes of wear on sealing surfaces. Granted, oil in the sump is in a pretty low-pressure regime. Realistically, the lubricants additives probably play a bigger role.

As far as valve stem seal though, it's well-documented that wear from frictional torque from higher-viscosity lubricants increases wear. There's published literature dating back several decades which demonstrates this is the case. And a higher VI oil is going to less frictional torque for much of its life, particularly when you consider how cars are actually driven (and how much time they're spend with the oil still warming up).

I do think it's extremely short-sighted though for folks to continue to simply look at metallic wear and nothing else in determining a lubricant's properties.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock


I'm myopic? You're the one who thinks motor oil blew a head gasket.

Fair enough! that was supposed to be "valve cover gasket"...sorry for mis-typing... My point still stands, though.

 

[demarpaint]

Since we're going OT here, how many people don't carry any form of non-essential insurance? I bet there are a few people here that are glad they have it, and others bragging how much they saved w/o it. In my case I feel its worth the extra few $$. Boy was I glad I had the extra coverage I do when my dog bit a young girl. Opinions vary.

 

[TFB1]

Oil causing gasket failure??? Maybe there a .01% chance but I doubt it... Valve stem seals mostly cook from the heat of the valve, viscosity of the oil has very little to do with the failure... Ford had a issue with the early 4.6L V8, with seals cooking out in 80-100K, the seal composition was changed and the '96-up had no issue... So the oil caused failure in the early engines, yeah and I believe in the tooth fairy... No doubt someone is going to say the thicker oils cause them to run hotter, well maybe but I doubt a ¼* is going to make a difference... Also things like valve cover and oil pan gaskets often fail in time, this is why the high mileage oils were introduced... The Oil pan gasket leaks on my '93 F-150, and is a common issue on several Ford engines of the period, was it because of the oil used, not in my opinion just [censored] gaskets...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: spock1
Regular motor oil might be acceptable if you live in Toronto or Vancouver.If you live in Edmonton or other northern cities you need a top quality synthetic if you want you car to start unplugged in the winter without trashing itself to bit in no time at all.


I mentioned this in another thread. I had an old LTD that went 600,000 km, all on conventional 5w-30, running all year, and it never had the luxury of being stored in any garage, heated or otherwise. And the climate in Regina and Saskatoon aren't significantly different from that in Edmonton.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: gfh77665
So, just asking, you are saying Mobil 5000 is perfectly equivalent to Mobil 1 EP, which Mobil says: " delivers guaranteed protection of critical engine parts for 15,000 miles.".

And, Pennzoil YB is perfectly equivalent to Pennzoil Ultra, which SOPUS says is THE ultimate cleaner?


There's a lot of marketing speak in both companies' claims. All their oils, conventional and synthetic, are guaranteed to last as long as the manufacturer's OCI (assuming the correct oil is chosen in the first place). The oil companies tend to recommend to follow the manufacturer's OCI, even under synthetic. M1 EP is an exception, since they guarantee 15,000 miles or the manufacturer's OCI, whichever is longer.

ExxonMobil is the exception here, rather than the rule. I would agree that one generally can go longer on synthetics. However, the oil companies tend to prefer to cover the behinds, and if someone wishes to change out an expensive synthetic every 3,000 miles, it's no skin off the oil companies' noses.

 

[spock1]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: spock1
Regular motor oil might be acceptable if you live in Toronto or Vancouver.If you live in Edmonton or other northern cities you need a top quality synthetic if you want you car to start unplugged in the winter without trashing itself to bit in no time at all.


I mentioned this in another thread. I had an old LTD that went 600,000 km, all on conventional 5w-30, running all year, and it never had the luxury of being stored in any garage, heated or otherwise. And the climate in Regina and Saskatoon aren't significantly different from that in Edmonton.

Would your old LTD start unplugged at -48C on dino?
Most new cars barely cranck at that temperature .