Synthetic oil snafus

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Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


Longer OCI? Wrong.
Cleaner engine? Wrong.

Bill


So, just asking, you are saying Mobil 5000 is perfectly equivalent to Mobil 1 EP, which Mobil says: " delivers guaranteed protection of critical engine parts for 15,000 miles.".

And, Pennzoil YB is perfectly equivalent to Pennzoil Ultra, which SOPUS says is THE ultimate cleaner?
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

I've said here for almost 10 years that IF your engine NEEDS syn then run it. I've also said anything force fed I'd prob run it. Also there are engines these days that require it but don't need it. (though I'd still run it while in warranty) It does allow them to get more $$ when you go into the stealership (and most of them still put a 3-5k mile or 3-6mo sticker in the windshield for the next $ervice)

I agree with the underlined.
Most BMW, MB, Audi, Porsche ... engines need synthetic oil for the duration of fairly long OCI up to 15k miles. If dino was used in those engines for that long OCI then sludge can be formed in the engine.

MB engines had problem with sludge in early 2000's when owners used dino and still do 12-15k miles OCI, while the FSS(MB's Oil Life Monitor) was calibrated with syn oil.

For engines designed with dino oil, synthetic has some advantages especially if OCI is extended to about double.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
I was on the synthetic band wagon for years. After researching VOA's and UOA's from both dino and syn. I decided that spending the extra cash on syn for the 5k OCI that I do on both vehicles just wasnt worth it.

I am getting there myself. My FX4 has had PU in it since the first OC, but next OC it will see some of the Mobil Super that I have been collecting from OR and AZ. I will continue with the UOAs to increase the knowledge base of information about oil. I can always go back to PU if I am not satisfied with the results, but an $11.50 OC beats a $40.00 OC all day provided the results are similar.


After running M1 5-20 in my 04 F150 I read a lot here and made the change to MotorCraft 5-20. I feel good about it and saved a good chunk of change.
 
Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.


Wow - Thanks for offering up one of the more poorly defined statements in quite a while here a BITOG.

ANY product can be under-utilized or over-utilized. That goes for lubes as well as anything else.

I use dinos. I use synthetics. I use products to my personal "best fit" application. I do both preventative and predictive maintenance, situationally dependent.

Read my signature line; says it all.
 
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Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: spock1
We probably all agree that for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go.

Wrong.


Spock = Wrong.
Ranger = Right
 
Quote:
From Dave Newton's Signature (in case you missed it):
Conventional oils vs. Synthetic oils isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, in relation to cost.
Make an informed decision: first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube. Don't do it the other way around ...



+1 Dave; Some of the comments I have just read show a real lack of understanding of oil formulation and the importance of matching the right oil to the right application. Unfortunately ALL oil companies are trying to get you to buy more oil and they ALL try to eschew one benefit over another - synthetic vs dino, titanium vs moly vs boron, FST, etc etc etc. And they ALL have benefits when used in the right way. Matching the right technology to your NEEDS is what is critical.

I can't even tell you how many people I deal with regularly who only want to use a specific brand/type of oil with out really understanding their lube needs first.
 
The fact that synthetic oils last longer is one attribute I personally couldn't care less about.

In Canada the Japanese OEM's have not extended the OCI for synthetic oil use but are recommending their 0W-20 oil over mineral 5W-20 primarily for reasons of improved fuel economy and minimized engine wear. The OEM's are so committed to it that they are charging almost nothing more to encourage consumers to use the product.
 
The manual for my BMW 7-Series is very specific that only synthetic oil should be used, and an "approved long-life" oil at that. Based on my oil life monitor I could change the oil every 25,000 km (15,000 miles) but I change it at 15,000 km. The car now has 330,000 km on it and the engine is a smooth as ever and burns no oil. Inspection when I had the oil pump checked showed an exceptionally clean engine.

I have not heard of sludge build up in a vehicle where synthetic oil has been used. I'm not saying it doesn't happen--just saying that I haven't heard of it.

I put synthetic oil through my own unplanned torture test. My wife had a brain tumour removed two years ago, and several days later she collapsed at home. I got a panic call from our daughter and headed home while my daughter called 911. On my way home, in rush hour, my water pump seized on the highway and I lost all coolant. I pulled over but was on an out of town stretch of highway and I figured it would take an hour or more for a tow vehicle to arrive. I called my daughter, and the paramedics were at my house and transferring my wife to an ambulance. My daughter was 15 at the time and obviously frantic. I decided that the BMW engine was "only money" and drove the car over 15 miles with no coolant, no fan belt, no fan...nothing. Temp gauge was off the scale. Went straight to the hospital. Fortunately my wife's condition was only due to low blood pressure due to the surgery. The next day I got my BMW to a good local mechanic who checked everything over. He had to replace the cooling components (water pump, fan belt, fan) but the engine was running perfectly. No blown headgasket...no coolant in the oil. The mechanic said "these things hold 8 litres of synthetic oil...that's probably saved your engine". Not a scientific explanation...nothing more than an opinion really...but I do believe synthetic oil provides an extra margin of protection especially under extreme conditions. IMHO.
 
Interesting discussion. I just moved to synthetics a year ago so I don't have much to add from experience other than I always had good results with conventional oils. But, I work for a manufacturer (in another field) so I tend to believe what they recommend for the product they've engineered and are putting their good name on. You may be edified by what Mobil1 says about the difference:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/What_Is_Synthetic_Motor_Oil.aspx

The punchline is pretty definitive:

"The performance of synthetic motor oil is more robust, especially in terms of low-temperature pumpability, high-temperature stability, and protection against deposits. These attributes translate directly into less engine wear and longer engine life."
 
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Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Who gives a flying [censored] about what the manual says with respect to OCI on this site where extended OCI's are the norm.

I've been here a long time, and I'm not sure that I would agree that extended OCIs are the norm here. But maybe we should define what an extended OCI is. To me, extended OCI is over 10K miles. But if someone was brainwashed by JiffyLube to do 3K OCI, he may consider 4K OCI to be extended in comparison to what he's used to.


What I do see is that a lot of members here have fairly new vehicles, still under warranty, and I rarely see anyone running OCIs longer than what the owner's manual calls for during the warranty period, and rightly so. And most owner's manuals don't have a separate OCI recommendation if you're using synthetic oil instead of mineral, so why waste money on synthetic if you're going to follow a short OCI anyway?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

so why waste money on synthetic if you're going to follow a short OCI anyway?

Because as I (and others) have explained it's not the only advantageous attribute of synthetic oil and to many of us it's the least important.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


Longer OCI? Wrong.
Cleaner engine? Wrong.

Bill


So, just asking, you are saying Mobil 5000 is perfectly equivalent to Mobil 1 EP, which Mobil says: " delivers guaranteed protection of critical engine parts for 15,000 miles.".

And, Pennzoil YB is perfectly equivalent to Pennzoil Ultra, which SOPUS says is THE ultimate cleaner?





I was thinking of the same question/angle....

Hmmm.. no one has rebutted to this one yet....

///

I dont subscribe to the point of view that a synth does not offer greater advantages over dino.. plain and simple.!! Although I agree where synth can be a waste of money in some application/engines.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

so why waste money on synthetic if you're going to follow a short OCI anyway?

Because as I (and others) have explained it's not the only advantageous attribute of synthetic oil and to many of us it's the least important.

Yes, there are other benefits of synthetic. I should have mentioned that in my response.

I still do not agree with the OP's statement that "for most users,synthetic motor oil is the way to go." It's just not as simple as that.
 
There is only one reason to even consider not using synthetic oil and that is cost.
And if one thinks about it carefully, the perceived up front savings you might realize on the initial purchase on an inferior mineral lube may not pay off in the long run.
 
I meant no disrespect toward Bill; I would have stated the same to any one who seemed to be in a position of authority, such as those here who have very high post counts. The point I in-eloquently tried to get across is that to be absolute on anything leaves room for error. If some one posts that you should absolutely do something or not, or that something is absolutely true or not, then you should have questions.

I also did not mean to imply, as some one mentioned to me in a PM, that you should not follow your owner's manual with respect to all warranty concerns. A better way of putting it is that the most likely reason a manufacturer places specific oil requirements and does not leave room for the consumer to adjust his own OCI based on the oil he uses, is because verifying different maximum (and severe service) intevals for multiple oil specs would be overly cumbersome. IMO, they'd rather tell you the min spec and the max OCI, and let you do what ever you want, so long as it follows those those guidelines.

I'm a moderator on another forum and I make mistakes like every one else. For some reason, on certain days, I post without getting all of my thoughts together properly, and what comes out isn't exactly correct or how I wanted it to come across, and most times I get called out on it. Knowing that members pay special attention to moderators and people of perceived authority, however, I tend to stay away from absolute answers, unless it is in response to a particularly absurd post.

So, again I apologize for any perceived disrespect. I meant it as a silly rebuttal, but what seems relatively benign while typing on my phone may not come across that way to others, so I apologize. Oh, hahaha! I just reread my post and noticed the censored part. It says f.a.r.t., not explicative!
crackmeup2.gif
I apologize for bypassing the swear filter, Helen, but I feel that knowing I wasn't cursing might change how people read what I typed!
 
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Until O'Reilly had 5 quart Mobil Super and Microguard oil filter on sale for $9.99 2-3 weeks ago, the last time I bought dino was more than 3 years ago, back then I bought 2 12-qt cases for less than 50 cents a quart after rebate.

During the last 3 years I only bought synthetic, because the average cost was less than $2-3 a quart after rebate. No reason to buy dino for more than $2/qt while you can buy syn for less than $3/qt.

Since I double the OCI with syn in my LS400 and S2000, synthetic makes sense in my case.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Who gives a flying [censored] about what the manual says with respect to OCI on this site where extended OCI's are the norm.

I've been here a long time, and I'm not sure that I would agree that extended OCIs are the norm here. But maybe we should define what an extended OCI is. To me, extended OCI is over 10K miles. But if someone was brainwashed by JiffyLube to do 3K OCI, he may consider 4K OCI to be extended in comparison to what he's used to.


What I do see is that a lot of members here have fairly new vehicles, still under warranty, and I rarely see anyone running OCIs longer than what the owner's manual calls for during the warranty period, and rightly so. And most owner's manuals don't have a separate OCI recommendation if you're using synthetic oil instead of mineral, so why waste money on synthetic if you're going to follow a short OCI anyway?



What I meant by my comment is similar to the Jiffy-Lube-brain-washed people you mentioned; those who base their OCI on tribal knowledge and lore rather than fact or even what their manual requires; those who balk at the idea of following their MM or OLM, because 9kmi is WAY too long!

There are still those on the Subaru forum I frequent who use $10/qt oil and change it every couple of thousand miles (I'm talking about DD, not low-mileage garage queens, nor a track rat) believe that the more expensive and frequently change the oil, the better. True to a fault, but, man, $60/2k miles?
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I just reread my post and noticed the censored part. It says f.a.r.t.,

Oh noes! Now you've bypassed the censor. You are surely getting banned now!
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
There is only one reason to even consider not using synthetic oil and that is cost.
And if one thinks about it carefully, the perceived up front savings you might realize on the initial purchase on an inferior mineral lube may not pay off in the long run.


CATERHAM inferior in what context? There are applications that synthetic will be superior but in the context of most owner's daily drivers. The simple answer is no. Notice I stated most. Not every because not every application is the same.
 
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