Synthetic oil differences

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But typically you don't see the HTHS on the oils .. so basically the higher HTHS the better.

I don't know if I would go that far. If you design an engine for 2.3 HTHS and then run 5.1 HTHS you are likely just waisting power. The pressure in the bearings is going to result in temporary shearing and temp increase but the initial temp of the lubricant is also a major factor. You might consider your application in choosing. As a matter of fact I've seen owner's manuals that suggest a one grade increase for towing or a two grade increase for track. The reality is that they are really suggesting a bump from 2.7 to 3.1 HTHS or 3.1 to 4.3 HTHS due to potential increased oil temps.

Some have it published and some don't. Generally at 3.2 HTHS (5W-30) and 3.3 HTHS (10W-30) the Valvoline Synthetic has been at the high end for a GF-6 30 Grade.
 

Scott S

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I don't know if I would go that far. If you design an engine for 2.3 HTHS and then run 5.1 HTHS you are likely just waisting power. The pressure in the bearings is going to result in temporary shearing and temp increase but the initial temp of the lubricant is also a major factor. You might consider your application in choosing. As a matter of fact I've seen owner's manuals that suggest a one grade increase for towing or a two grade increase for track. The reality is that they are really suggesting a bump from 2.7 to 3.1 HTHS or 3.1 to 4.3 HTHS due to potential increased oil temps.

Some have it published and some don't. Generally at 3.2 HTHS (5W-30) and 3.3 HTHS (10W-30) the Valvoline Synthetic has been at the high end for a GF-6 30 Grade.
I have never seen anything like that in an owner's manual.. the only thing I have ever seen, is the selected grade of oil and ISLAC rating.. maybe because I have never owned a modern sports car, only older muscle cars.. and a Ford Edge. Which is 5W20 and obviously when new Ford recommended Motorcraft synthetic blend or equivalent.
 
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Yep. Although it's a bit confusing since he doesn't define GIII+)

Amsoil uses different bases and blends depending on product and grade.

I don't think M1 makes a product that contains no HVI GIII, GTL, PAO, AN or POE. But certainly they use all of these in at least some products.

Pennzoil makes some synthetics that may not contain GTL.

Quaker State may or may not contain GTL (likely grade and batch dependent).

Claiming that no Supertech contains anything but lower VI GIII is a stretch.
 
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In my OPINION Mobil 1 products generally have superior base oils when compared to the competition. However you must look at the complete package after additives are introduced as they play a significant role also.
They can have access to as many Superior base oils under the sun as there are, but their engine oils don't seem really any better than the competition. In fact if anyone has been around here long enough, there's always the stories of noisy engines and high iron wear numbers to boot.
 
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They can have access to as many Superior base oils under the sun as there are, but their engine oils don't seem really any better than the competition. In fact if anyone has been around here long enough, there's always the stories of noisy engines and high iron wear numbers to boot.
Been lurking here for years and Mobil 1 ep seems to be one of the more popular oils out there and well regarded
 
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Yes, the additive package is what determines the OCI length suitability, though base oil selection will also play a role. PAO has more oxidation resistance than Group III and lower baes for example.

Assuming we are just talking about synthetic lubes:
- AMSOIL uses a blend of bases. I don't know the specifics on what AMSOIL uses, but likely PAO, POE and some Group III in the SS series. The lower series (OE/XL) are Group III.

- The Mobil 1 product family varies significantly depending on the product. M1 EP 0w-20 is basically straight PAO, while some of the oils have next to none. They also use Shell's Group III GTL bases in varying quantities as well along with POE and AN's.

- Pennzoil/Quaker State use both the Shell GTL base oils and the XHVI Group III bases. They also use some of Mobil's EHC bases, but not sure if that's in their synthetics or not, I suspect it's reserved for their blend oils.

- Supertech is a Warren product that uses Group III in their synthetic lubricants, though we've seen MSDS sheets that seemed to imply they were using Mobil's EHC Group II+ bases as well.

Mobil has a clear advantage in base oil selection because they produce so many of them, while other companies buy them.
*What about Valvoline bases ? Their Advanced series and EP series synthetic oils show decent reports about on par with M1 or PPPP ?
 
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They can have access to as many Superior base oils under the sun as there are, but their engine oils don't seem really any better than the competition. In fact if anyone has been around here long enough, there's always the stories of noisy engines and high iron wear numbers to boot.

Whatever it is, it has little to do with 'fact'.


I don't think engines are ever designed for a certain weight oil. Too many variables.

Engines are certainly designed for a certain range of viscosities,
which you probably see listed in the corresponding manual.
.
 

OVERKILL

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*What about Valvoline bases ? Their Advanced series and EP series synthetic oils show decent reports about on par with M1 or PPPP ?
Valvoline recently updated their SDS sheets, so they don't have any real info anymore. They were using PAO in their 0w-40, but that's pretty typical. Other oils are Group III.
 

OVERKILL

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Vanilla M1 seems to have produced high iron numbers. And no, I'm not going to research it.
And that means nothing. UOA's are not a substitute for tear-down analysis. As we've discussed extensively, certain chemistries will be more aggressive towards surface adhesion than others and UOA's have no way of discerning the difference between chelated metal particles and those from actual wear.
 
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We should ask which oil would let the vehicle out last the ownership of said vehicle.
All of them assuming normal usage and change intervals.

Realistically, what takes us out of our vehicles? Probably a half dozen other things that have nothing to do with engine oil. I can think of a few in no particular order:

1. Lifestyle change. Marriage and a family means sporty car gets traded in for example.

2. Cosmetic issues. Not many gainfully employed people will drive a car with a failed paint job for very long.

3. Narcissistic issues. A lot of people will trade in a serviceable and presentable looking car a few months after paying off the note, especially if the car is no longer considered stylish.

4. Accident/theft.

5. A series of non-drivetrain related repairs and failures. Power windows breaking for the third time. New brake master cylinder, that kind of thing.

An engine failure on an otherwise OK car is fairly low down on the list when you think about it.
 
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All of them assuming normal usage and change intervals.

Realistically, what takes us out of our vehicles? Probably a half dozen other things that have nothing to do with engine oil. I can think of a few in no particular order:

1. Lifestyle change. Marriage and a family means sporty car gets traded in for example.

2. Cosmetic issues. Not many gainfully employed people will drive a car with a failed paint job for very long.

3. Narcissistic issues. A lot of people will trade in a serviceable and presentable looking car a few months after paying off the note.

4. Accident/theft.

5. A series of non-drivetrain related repairs and failures. Power windows breaking for the third time. New brake master cylinder, that kind of thing.

An engine failure on an otherwise OK car is fairly low down on the list when you think about it.
Just look at the old car styles. Or electric vehicles now and when they first came out.
 
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Sorry if I hurt your feelings. A lot of people feel the need to defend certain brands or flavors of engine oil.
I’ve run plenty of brands over the years, I come here to research and ask questions and make a decision. I’m sorry you’re so sensitive to someone disagreeing with you that you assume you hurt feelings? Clearly that’s a soft spot for you kiddo. Sorry about that
 
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