Synthetic OCI

[rclint]

KPC this forum is back on forth as to which is the current darling of oils. It may be PP one day, Mobil 1 the next day, it looks to be PU next unless something changes in the alignment of the stars as this oil is getting A1 and better ratings upon shelf arrival, and maybe before. My point is don't look at the kool aid drinkage to hard less you start drinking from the same jug, or maybe even a different flavor !!

Most modern oils synthetic or conventional will take you well past 300k engine wise, most of the brand names are superb products with end users picking one some being very loyal to certain ones voicing their opinion, sometimes even turning opinion into facts.. My point is do some research, take what you read here with a grain of salt when it comes to which brand of oil you choose... live happy... Oh yea do extend your OCI out at least to your max according to your owners manual when running synthetics, you may be able to take it further however anything past the owners manual will cost money having used oil analysis done, or your take your chances hoping the oil is protecting.

 

[Durango]

KPC,

You may have changed your engines oil early but you must have the cleanest internals yet! I too admit changing your synthetic oil every 2500K is a little excessive but if it's fits your budget and makes you feel better than so be it.

In my 01 Dodge Durango V-8 I change mine every 3K according to the owners manual designed for city driveing conditions using Mobil 1 5w30. Some people have mocked me too but it's my money and I get piece of mind. In addition I also drive an 08 Impala SS V-8 and use M1 as well and change it out with filter when the OLM tells me too which is about every 6K miles.

Regardless of which brand you prefer any synthetic oil will take you an easy 6K without fearing to lose the additive package.

Good luck in your final decision,

Durango

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Will you continue to drive 20,000 miles per year? I'm assuming that much of that is highway mileage?

If the answer is yes to both questions then you are a very lucky person. You can do drastically longer oil changes than you have been doing.

If you have an Oil Life Monitor and it is calibrated for synthetic oil, then just use that.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance and Castrol Edge are both extended drain oils. When it's on sale the Mobil 1 might be cheaper. Both are good for 15,000 miles. If your new car burns enough oil, over that interval, to cause you to replenish at least 30% with fresh then you can safely work it out to the full 1 year 20,000 mile mark. If it doesn't burn any you might want to keep it slightly below the 15,000 mile mark depending on your comfort level.
Use a top notch filter. Go with OEM or the Pure One that everyone on here loves so much. If you go with Mobil 1 when it's on sale then lots of times you can get their filter thrown in for free. So much the better for you. It's one of the best filters made.

Good luck and enjoy the future. Just check your level often and top off!

 

[Steve S]

Just think how long the engine would last if you changed the oil at 2,000 miles.

 

[CourierDriver]

I avg 1500 miles a week most weeks,, somewhere n the 6th week i have to change it or in the 5th week , depends on my mood. I really need 50,000 mile oil, lol. Im wearing out my drain plug.

 

[ottotheclown]

Have no clue how that mileage is put on severe or normal as they say in the trade, but if it is severe 3,000 if it is normal whatever that is, 5,000 and the sucess you have had will continue. IMHO

 

[bigdawg74]

Blackstone labs

These guys are pretty good for used oil analysis.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I avg 1500 miles a week most weeks,, somewhere n the 6th week i have to change it or in the 5th week , depends on my mood. I really need 50,000 mile oil, lol. Im wearing out my drain plug.


Try the EP 10-30. It may give you a few thouasand more miles between OCIs.

 

[ahoier]

Asking about OCI lengths is hard, since we don't know how you drive your vehicle (hard/pedal to the metal, stop and go city traffic or hwy miles, short trips vs. long trips, etc...) but yea, with those short OCIs your crankcase should be "pristine" =) - Take the current OCI to 7k, and then get a Used Oil Analysis done and see what the results say. If you let Blackstone do the test, they will provide input as far as whether you should take the vehicle further/longer OCIs, shorten the OCIs, and can also reveal other stuff such as water/coolant/gas in your oil, which could potentially thin the oil.

As far as Oil Labs, the only one I'm really familiar with is Blackstone and they seem top-notch, though like everything, you will get bashers I've heard that some of Blackstone's measurements/readings are "off" on some oils sometimes....but I like the way they have real people do the testing, and not machines/computers and actually give input And you can call them up with questions, etc.

As far as extended drain, give it a go with the "normal" schedule, or somewhere between "normal" and "severe" then do the UOA, and see what crops up.

I know when I send my sample in, I'll be curious to see how it looks, since I do make some short trips (5 mile roundtrip to drop kids off at school in the early morning [read: condensation/moisture] - driving residential roads no faster than 30 mph) - granted, my temp gauge does make it to fully warmed up, but then the vehicle is shut off for an hour or 2 until I have to drop the next kid off

 

[addyguy]

See what I mean about the insanity that is taking over this place?

The only people we are attracting to these forums are the 'I changed my M1 every 2k miles and that's what kept my engine going for 200k. Yeah, I wasted oil, but I believe that's what kept the engine running well'.

Gimme a break. I go 3 TIMES as long as the OP on sale conventional and my engine runs as well as his, I guarantee it.

Sigh......

 

[KPC]

Hello ahoier

thank you kindly for such an informative post.

just for the record, this vehicle is driven mostly all highway to and from work, very easily by 55 year old lady.

I doubt it classifies as severe, i'd actually classify it as opposite, very easily driven practically all highway on cruise control.

I called Blackstone and talked to a tech for about 15 minutes and in short here is what he said.

1. save money by running conventional vs synthetic

2. change oil every 3-4,000 miles.

3. he said that synthetic oils may last 7,500, 10k 15k, etc.. but it doesn't matter how good the oil is, that the one thing oils can't fix, is metal particles in the oil from engine wear.
He said that is why it is recommended to change oil every 3-4k miles as that is the only way to get the metal out of the oil.

4. at 3-4k miles, even with conventional oil, the oil is not yet broken down, so why pay more for synthetic if conventional oil isn't broken down by the 3-4k OCI. But at 3-4k is where metal particles can build up to a level which it is time to change oil to get the metal particles out of the oil.

He said that 3-4k is a safe level to change oil to where it is highly unlikely that damage would occur to the engine due to too many metal particles, unless something was wrong with the engine not related to the lubrication of the oil (bad bearing, etc..) he said with an oil test, that they can determine the level of metal particles and see if it is actually possible to extend OCI beyond 3-4k based on oil breakdown & metal particles. He said that if I didn't want to pay for the oil test, or mess around with it in general, just run conventional oil with filter change every 3-4k miles and sleep well at night.

But if I wanted to see if it is possible to extend OCI, that I could order up a blackstone lab kit and mail them a sample of oil for testing.

But ultimately he said for daily driving mostly highway miles, non harsh driving condition, etc.. oils can advance year after year, but until engines stop wearing away causing metal particles, that all of these fancy oils are just a waste. That plain conventional is high quality enough to last more than 3-4k miles, so with oci at 3-4k the oil hasn't yet broke down, but it is changed out to get the metal particles out of the oil, not changing the oil due to the oil breaking down.

He said that on the other hand, if this vehicle was used in racing applications, heavy towing or other harsh conditions, then it may be a good idea to run a synthetic as I guess conventional could break down before 3-4k miles due to the harsh use.

But I guess for simple highway cruise control driving, just running conventional with 3-4k oci is the way to go.

To me it makes good sense, but i'd like to see some opinions of what others have to say.

 

[bigdawg74]

Originally Posted By: KPC

he said that synthetic oils may last 7,500, 10k 15k, etc.. but it doesn't matter how good the oil is, that the one thing oils can't fix, is metal particles in the oil from engine wear.
He said that is why it is recommended to change oil every 3-4k miles as that is the only way to get the metal out of the oil.

Uh, isn't that what a good, quality oil filter is for?

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, with the way you're leaning, KPC, grab the oil of your choice and pick 2,3, or 4 service points a year. I would highly recommend following your OLM and then just see how much of a % you can tolerate before changing it out. In your service, I'd suspect it will be in the >50% range.

This service is sweet spot nirvana for everything. Oil, filter, and unavoidable wear.

 

[qship1996]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
See what I mean about the insanity that is taking over this place?

The only people we are attracting to these forums are the 'I changed my M1 every 2k miles and that's what kept my engine going for 200k. Yeah, I wasted oil, but I believe that's what kept the engine running well'.

Gimme a break. I go 3 TIMES as long as the OP on sale conventional and my engine runs as well as his, I guarantee it.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to do what they feel is right for them, arnt they? Just because they change their oil or underwear more/less frequently than you does not make either of you "right"....worry about your own car, and let others worry about theirs and all will be happy, no?

Sigh......

 

[KPC]

Look, I understand how forums work, and I have a thick skin.

But what is hard to distinguish are the replies that are filled with nothing but B.S. comments just because someone disagrees that I changed my oil sooner than what you might have.

I'm trying to figure out what is a safe interval for changing oil, and if synthetic is truly the way to go, or if it is just hype, if I should look into lab testing to see if I can extend OCI's, etc.. etc.. etc...

Kindly asking, for anyone who feels the need to slam my post with filler just to blow hot air about how such an incompetent fools only come to this forum asking dumb questions about oil, save yourself the key strokes and go bash someone else. Cause it is just making it more confusing who is actually posting helpful information or someone who is just adding dirt to this post to confuse me.

I mean no disrespect to the people who have been providing truly helpful information. I've learned a great deal in this one post.

But if you have nothing better to do than flame me, go pester someone else. I'm trying to actually learn something and don't need useless bashing thrown in this post just so you can get your jollies off making fun of how often I changed oil.

 

[XS650]

Metals in the oil aren't a problem if you are running a good oil filter. By good, I mean most brand name oil filters.

The metal levels measured in a used oil analysis are from particles of such a small size that they make little difference, bigger particles get filtered out.

 

[Steve S]

If you are doing 5,000 mile oil change intervals there will not be any real advantage running syn oil . If you are doing 10,000+ mile oil change intervals that is what syn oil is for. Though there are conventional oils that are long life oils but that is for another post.

 

[KPC]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well, with the way you're leaning, KPC, grab the oil of your choice and pick 2,3, or 4 service points a year. I would highly recommend following your OLM and then just see how much of a % you can tolerate before changing it out. In your service, I'd suspect it will be in the >50% range.

This service is sweet spot nirvana for everything. Oil, filter, and unavoidable wear.


Please break this down into layman's terms

If I go with the OLM, what do you mean by how much of a tolerance % I can tolerate?

What do you mean by in your service you suspect it with be in the greater than 50%.

what I thought about doing, was doing a few oil changes with conventional oil in this buick rainier, just to get everything flushed out. That is what blackstone said.

Then after a few 3-4k mile changes, send a sample out to them for testing. This will give me an idea how the engine is wearing.

They said that if it is wearing well, and the oil is holding up, that it might be ok to extend the oci to 5-6k miles.

They said that some well built honda & toyota engines can get up to 8k on an oci (I think they said that was on syn oil thou). that the engines are built so well that they are not wearing causing metal particles and that 8k is still not breaking down the oil.

Ultimately, I would like to be able to run at least 7500 miles+ on syn oil change. Just so I don't have to crawl under the car to change oil as often.

But it seems that I may have to send the oil out for lab testing to make sure that the engine isn't wearing causing metal particles that makes going 7500 miles impossible (due to too much metal particles being in the oil).

As for the comment about oil filters catching the particles, I agree that seems to make sense, but blackstone didn't say anything about factory oil filters being able to catch the fine metal particles.

On a side note, if I could get a filter that is truly capable of filtering out the fine particles in the oil, then running synthetic, I would assume (with only what I've learned so far) that I could run at least 7500+ miles on OCI.

From what blackstone said, it seems to be more of a problem with needing to change oil on a regular basis to get out the impurities in the oil that can cause wear to the engine, rather than changing oil to replace old worn out oil.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I avg 1500 miles a week most weeks,, somewhere n the 6th week i have to change it or in the 5th week , depends on my mood. I really need 50,000 mile oil, lol. Im wearing out my drain plug.
You may be one of the few that may benefit from an Amsoil bypass filter. That fancy oil filter and the top of their line oil would help . I met a courier in the 1980s who ran Amsoil oil and filters changing them out at 25,000 miles and the Nissan truck was running good at 500,000 miles.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: KPC
what I thought about doing, was doing a few oil changes with conventional oil in this buick rainier, just to get everything flushed out. That is what blackstone said.

Flushed what out? You have a nearly brand new engine. Do you know what the service history is for it? I highly doubt this engine is in any need of cleaning, but whatever...

Quote:

Ultimately, I would like to be able to run at least 7500 miles+ on syn oil change. Just so I don't have to crawl under the car to change oil as often.

Can you access the oil filter from the top? If so, buy yourself an oil extractor and do the whole thing from the top - you won't have to strain your back by crawling under the car - it's quick and less messy.

Quote:

As for the comment about oil filters catching the particles, I agree that seems to make sense, but blackstone didn't say anything about factory oil filters being able to catch the fine metal particles.

I think you're way over-analyzing this and freaking out too much about these metal particles. They are either so small that they get suspended in oil in which case they're harmless, or they're big enough to be trapped by the filter - pretty much any decent filter, including the factory filter.
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