Synthetic for break in oil

[fscarano]

A friend of mine told me.. Quote> there a lot of reasons not to use full synthetic in a brand new engine. There is a whole lot of wear going on the first 500 miles and beyond and you want it to take place so things will loosen up where they want to be for the rest of their careers . Most do fine but some engines fail to break in properly on full synthetic (rings don't seat) and it can haunt them by burning oil till they die. < end of quote.

Is this true?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Search. Been asked and answered a 1000 times.


There are many types of synthetic oil. I would think a grp III would not provide enhanced lubricity over a grpII. The problem is the FAE added as slickifiers to ILSAC oil s that will extend breakin. What can you do about that?

I would say drive the car normally, don't do extended highway run out of the box. Keep it around town, don't rev it over 3500 for a few hundred miles and you're good to go. Full wear in and loosen up seems to take over 10K miles evidenced by UOA.

Your rings are bedded in under 1 hour so .... Times up.

Maybe stay away from Redline and trisynthetic and other REAL synthetic oils.

M1, Valvoline, Black bottle Edge = no problema.

Quaker State GB porb the best you can do If you are afraid to run Castrol 4T.

Specialty engines see the engine builder - not that they know

 

[zach1900]

Synthetic oil isn't magic, it's from the ground too.

 

[camrydriver111]

Whenever anybody talks about break-in they always cite MotoMan?

Is there anybody else in the world who has broken-in an engine before or just him?

 

[PandaBear]

Synthetic is now just a "marketing" term. It has less unstable molecules and maybe more and better additives that make them last longer, doesn't thicken up as much in cold, evaporate less, that's about it.

Their base oil molecules used to be more uniform in size too, but that's no longer that case these days.

So what is the reason not to use synthetic for break in other than cost (if you dump break in oil early)?

 

[OneEyeJack]

A long time ago, long before cell phones, materials, designs and methods were not up to today's standards. The break-in was important. First came insert rod and main bearings that replaced poured in place hand scrapped babbitt. That pretty much eliminated breaking in the bearings. Then came precision shaped pistons, better rings and cylinder honing, precise tolerances and fitting and that's taken care of breaking in the "rings". Camshafts also benefited from new materials and methods and today do not require any special attention.

In years past some engines were assembled with aged blocks, run in at the factory, torn down, checked and re-assembled. That kind of hand work and attention is long gone.

Even in the early 50's the Ford factory had a procedure to seat rings at the dealership for cars that smoked by misting Bon Ami kitchen cleanser into the carburetor with the engine running.

So, today the break in is usually all done once the engine has been started and the vehicle has been driven off the assembly line awaiting shipment. Any break-in like taking it easy for a few hundred or a thousand miles will not hurt anything and could be good for the long term life of the engine, the brakes, transmission and other running gear. A bit of caution at the beginning is never a bad thing.

Using mineral based oil for break-in is in the category of, it won't hurt and why take a chance with your own new vehicle. A few frequent changes will help clean out any "stuff" left behind which today is usually not much. Or, you can ignore the whole process and just have at it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: fscarano
A friend of mine told me.. Quote> there a lot of reasons not to use full synthetic in a brand new engine. There is a whole lot of wear going on the first 500 miles and beyond and you want it to take place so things will loosen up where they want to be for the rest of their careers . Most do fine but some engines fail to break in properly on full synthetic (rings don't seat) and it can haunt them by burning oil till they die. < end of quote.

Is this true?


Utter nonsense for todays cars. Modern engines are turned on fixtures, run on dynos, test driven, or sometimes nothing but driven to a lot for shipping. But one way or another most of the run in is already done when you get it. "Break in" is actually for driveline components.

The rotating assembly is either right or wrong, period. And rings seat very quickly if everything else is correct...

 

[Justin251]

Unless you have specific warranty instructions from a crate engine supplier or engine builder then I wouldn't worry about it much.

Buying a new car? I doubt engine break in matters much anymore. Aside from things like running it to redline fir awhile I don't think many manufacturers really specify anything special for break in anymore.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: fscarano
A friend of mine told me.. Quote> there a lot of reasons not to use full synthetic in a brand new engine. There is a whole lot of wear going on the first 500 miles and beyond and you want it to take place so things will loosen up where they want to be for the rest of their careers . Most do fine but some engines fail to break in properly on full synthetic (rings don't seat) and it can haunt them by burning oil till they die. < end of quote.

Is this true?


On a new car I change the oil at 1000 miles and them the manufacturer's interval thereafter. I use the viscosity/spec the manufacturer wants. Unless you are dumping the factory fill after 30 miles, this topic does not need discussing.

 

[Kawiguy454]

What oneeye said is close as it gets. Old tech the wear in of the rings was paramount. The rings needed to seat into the shape of the cylinder otherwise combustion contaminants would get in the oil and downward spiral that engine for its life.

New tech the cylinders and rings are so close to straight and round that the wear in process is much reduced.

One other area that would address your question that doesn't get said often is that the cylinder surface and rings work harden within the break in period. So using too slippery oil can reduce frictional heat and retard the surface hardening of the metals as well as wear in.

I always change the OEM fill oil ~500 miles then run another basic oil to 2500 before going to synth.

 

[CT8]

Engines break in fine with Syn oil of any base stock. Break in is the wear of all the [sharp points] of the machining process. Rings seat from combustion pressure. Newer machining processes are so much more precise yet the break in is still the same process.

 

[901Memphis]

One thing that you don't really need during break in is friction modifiers, so the additive package is more important than the base oil I'd argue.

 

[oldhp]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: fscarano
A friend of mine told me.. Quote> there a lot of reasons not to use full synthetic in a brand new engine. There is a whole lot of wear going on the first 500 miles and beyond and you want it to take place so things will loosen up where they want to be for the rest of their careers . Most do fine but some engines fail to break in properly on full synthetic (rings don't seat) and it can haunt them by burning oil till they die. < end of quote.

Is this true?


Utter nonsense for todays cars. Modern engines are turned on fixtures, run on dynos, test driven, or sometimes nothing but driven to a lot for shipping. But one way or another most of the run in is already done when you get it. "Break in" is actually for driveline components.

The rotating assembly is either right or wrong, period. And rings seat very quickly if everything else is correct...


Yep, +1.

 

[camrydriver111]

What about Mercedes-Benz and BMW? Do you think they break-in the engine with conventional, then do a change to synthetic and ship the car?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

All our young UOA data say engines are NOT fully worn in for thousands of miles.

Initial ring seating yes, fully worn in NO.
This is indisputable


Block distortion was WORSE for a while "precision machining" of engine is pretty basic for over the past 75 years.

Its part distortion that's problematic.

And
Most all engine are NOT run in - just simple ALDL soft load and a quick test fire and a trip to the lot.

Maybe steves fancy hemi is insitu wheel dyno run a bit longer. as a specialty product. Mans cant afford to do more than minimal on commodity items.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Many young uoa I see are just revealing assembly lubes and other such things. Contamination, not any indication of break in processes.

Note that the 6.1 was dyno tested, but the 5.7 isn't. Millions on the road prove that it really doesn't matter. The lot boy at the stealership will handle the run in for you!

Lots of newer cars ship with synthetic oil in them. Seems they break in just fine.

And no one here with any knowledge of the industry would dispute that assembly and machining are MUCH better and improved over 75 years ago...

 

[Justin251]

Not just better but better more consistently.

They still made good and bad engines then and today. But the ratio of bad to good is in our favor now.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Tell that to thousands. Subaru and Renault/Nissan owners with major engine noises, oil usage problems.

My forester just started using a QT 1000miles. To be fair to the thread this is more at pushing fuel efficiency to the literal 'breaking point' with short ring lands, superlight slipper skirt pistons with moly coatings and thin low tension rings, free standing cylinders, Split crank pins, floating wrist pins, thin, light Al alloy blocks, small dia mains, etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Tell that to thousands. Subaru and Renault/Nissan owners with major engine noises, oil usage problems.

My forester just started using a QT 1000miles.


But you break every vehicle you own ARCO. I can't even count the number you've killed in the time I've been a member here. You've admitted a number of times your driving style is a major contributor here.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Its my wifes car.