Switching to C3 Oil (PP Euro L) for Gas-V8 BMW

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1JZ_E46

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The N62/TU in my X5 has the typical valve stem seal oil consumption. I don't mind topping off regularly, but I want to keep the catalysts alive. I know the proper thing to do is fix/replace the seals, but the car isn't worth enough to sink that kind of money into the motor.

Here's a brief history:

With Castrol 0W-40 I was consuming about 1 quart every 2,000 miles. Not bad, but EDGE 0W-40 has A LOT of phosphorous in it (not cat friendly).

Switched to M1 HM (A3/B3 oil) to try and slow consumption (didn't work... consumed even more), however it has less Phosphorous (~850ppm vs. 1,000ppm)

Next on the list to try is PP Euro L 5W-30 (with a can of LM's ester-based Motor Oil Saver). It's a C3 oil and has about 750ppm of phosphorous. If I can get back to 1 quart every 2,000 miles I'd be a happy camper. Not worried about TBN as I stick to a 5k OCI.


I'll let everyone know how the PP Euro L works out. It's dirt cheap with the Pennzoil rebate ($2.50 a quart), which is nice for a 9 quart sump that drinks oil. PP Euro L is the same as Shell Helix Ultra ECT.

PDS Link

SDS (90-98% GTL):
https://prodepc.blob.core.windows.net/epcblobstorage/GSAP_msds_01322699.PDF
 
Last edited:
Someone say PP Euro L?

54A9D549-3E30-403B-96FE-9B3A493DE385.jpeg


A9ABEEC8-BED9-4350-B23C-7C63C34DF243.jpeg
 
Originally Posted by zeng
You've a smart choice in C3.


I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.


Thanks for the VOA. I came across it when I was looking at switching. I also found a few UOAs of people using it in U.S. gasser applications... all looked really good.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by zeng
You've a smart choice in C3.


I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.


I think people realizing sulfur content in fuel has been vastly reduced is changing opinions.
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by zeng
You've a smart choice in C3.


I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.


I think people realizing sulfur content in fuel has been vastly reduced is changing opinions.

People forgot ACEA launched C3 specs in 2004, whilst 50 ppm sulphur Euro 4 gasoline was launched in 2005!
..... and still touting short OCI on Bitog when Long Life Euro oils are 'always' a C3, and lately C5.

Edit: ...... am among rare species on Bitog recommending C3 OCI up to 10k miles, if not beyond. Wonder if this specie would extinguish.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by zeng
You've a smart choice in C3.


I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.


I think people realizing sulfur content in fuel has been vastly reduced is changing opinions.

People forgot ACEA launched C3 specs in 2004, whilst 50 ppm sulphur Euro 4 gasoline was launched in 2005!
..... and still touting short OCI on Bitog when Long Life Euro oils are 'always' a C3, and lately C5.

Edit: ...... am among rare species on Bitog recommending C3 OCI up to 10k miles, if not beyond. Wonder if this specie would extinguish.



At the time in the US (Tier 2, Circa 2000) sulphur levels were avg 120 ppm with a cap of 300 ppm which was reduced to 30 ppm with cap of 80 ppm in 2006 "for most" refiners. In the US the problem was the lack of uniformity.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by zeng
You've a smart choice in C3.


I chuckle inside at the rapid and complete shift here regarding PP Euro L in just the past 6 months. Way back when past June or so, I did a VOA on PP Euro L and stuck it in my Forester. There were about 4 pages of "Chicken Little" telling me the sky was going to fall on my head for using a C3 oil in a gas engine. Now, people are going out of their way to recommend it.

OP, I know we are told consumption is "bad" for cats, but there's also been plenty of discussion that if A3/B4 oils were truly any worse, we'd see a LOT more German marques with cat failures which hasn't really materialized. I'd say give the PPEL a shot, but if there's no real improvement I would go back to the Castrol. And I'm a yellow-bottle kind of guy.

I still think it is mediocre oil.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
I still think it is mediocre oil.


Well that's just, like, your opinion man.

Hard to describe a GTL oil that carries LL-04 and 229.51 as mediocre in my opinion.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by edyvw
I still think it is mediocre oil.


Well that's just, like, your opinion man.

Hard to describe a GTL oil that carries LL-04 and 229.51 as mediocre in my opinion.

It does not carry VW504.00/507.00, which is standard now in that category (C3) and has most stringent wear and after-rtreatement requirements.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by edyvw
It does not carry VW504.00/507.00, which is standard now in that category (C3) and has most stringent wear and after-rtreatement requirements.


True, but Shell has a separate oil for that (PPE LX). Sometimes it's easier and makes more sense to have two separate oils to meet different approvals than to thread the needle and include them all in one oil. Plus most 504/507 applications (at least in the US) spec 0W-30, so including it in PPEL is a bit of a waste.

I'd rather use a heavier basestock 5W oil versus a thin basestock 0W any day. 0W is useless for most people, and 100% useless in Oregon.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by edyvw
It does not carry VW504.00/507.00, which is standard now in that category (C3) and has most stringent wear and after-rtreatement requirements.


True, but Shell has a separate oil for that (PPE LX). Sometimes it's easier and makes more sense to have two separate oils to meet different approvals than to thread the needle and include them all in one oil. Plus most 504/507 applications (at least in the US) spec 0W-30, so including it in PPEL is a bit of a waste.

I'd rather use a heavier basestock 5W oil versus a thin basestock 0W any day. 0W is useless for most people, and 100% useless in Oregon.

VW 504.00/507.00 is 0W30 or 5W30. How you know most oils are 0W30? I would say 5W30 is easier to find in VW504.00/507.00 specification.
I am not talking about PPE LX. I am talking about PPE L. If PP offers E LX in Wal Mart, great, but they do not (or at least not wide spread). If someone needs C3 oil, IMO Valvoline 5W40 MST is better option than this.
 
Even if PPELX was available at Walmart for the same price as PPEL, I'd still get Euro L.

MST is a pain to get ahold of for a decent price. And I still don't think it's better than a GTL oil. I was able to get 4 jugs of PPEL for $2.50 a quart without leaving my computer chair (Walmart ship to home + rebate submission)
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Even if PPELX was available at Walmart for the same price as PPEL, I'd still get Euro L.

MST is a pain to get ahold of for a decent price. And I still don't think it's better than a GTL oil. I was able to get 4 jugs of PPEL for $2.50 a quart without leaving my computer chair (Walmart ship to home + rebate submission)

MST you can get for $2.99 at NAPA on sale, or sometimes for $4.99.
But that is irrelevant, I was using Mobil1 ESP Formula in BMW not because of price. It was majority Group III oil. and? Still better than anything PP is offering or what now Mobil1 offers with GTL base.
Final product matters. Just because it is GTL, or let's say Group V, does not mean it is above average oil. IMO Castrol 0W40 is still far better oil for 4.8i, but I kind of see what you doing in your case. Although I think it will still be a problem for Cat. In the end, valve stems will have to be replaced if you keep a car.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
The N62/TU in my X5 has the typical valve stem seal oil consumption. I don't mind topping off regularly, but I want to keep the catalysts alive. I know the proper thing to do is fix/replace the seals, but the car isn't worth enough to sink that kind of money into the motor.

Here's a brief history:

With Castrol 0W-40 I was consuming about 1 quart every 2,000 miles. Not bad, but EDGE 0W-40 has A LOT of phosphorous in it (not cat friendly).

Switched to M1 HM (A3/B3 oil) to try and slow consumption (didn't work... consumed even more), however it has less Phosphorous (~850ppm vs. 1,000ppm)

Next on the list to try is PP Euro L 5W-30 (with a can of LM's ester-based Motor Oil Saver). It's a C3 oil and has about 750ppm of phosphorous. If I can get back to 1 quart every 2,000 miles I'd be a happy camper. Not worried about TBN as I stick to a 5k OCI.


I'll let everyone know how the PP Euro L works out. It's dirt cheap with the Pennzoil rebate ($2.50 a quart), which is nice for a 9 quart sump that drinks oil. PP Euro L is the same as Shell Helix Ultra ECT.

PDS Link

SDS (90-98% GTL):
https://prodepc.blob.core.windows.net/epcblobstorage/GSAP_msds_01322699.PDF


Yikes..not fun work

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/09/04/n62-valve-stem-seal/
 
Last edited:
Yeah it's a pain in the [censored] job. Doable DIY but I'd rather not if I don't have to.
 
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