SUV All Weather on Well-Moderate Maintained FSRs?

[AJW001]

Yeah it's me again; off-road newbie. Yes I've been peppering you guys with questions re rims tires etc. So thanks again in advance.

The Nokian Outpost APT I've been wanting are out of stock in the entire north america it seems. My only other option is the Nitto Nomad Grappler (3-peak MSF) which is in stock. As I've mentioned before, I want to avoid three sets of tires. So my 2nd set would be used for the two months of Metro Vancouver winters with some trips to the local ski hills. The 2nd set would also be used occasionally for 1 mo in the summer on well-moderately maintained forest service roads (i.e. comprised of gravel, 2" crush, and the odd creek crossing) to access my favorite summer backcountry trails.

This on a 2023 Hyundai Kona, which is on order and being assembled in November (and a January delivery). That puts me in a bit of a pickle. 'Cause now, my car (a 2013 Ford Focus ST) I'm going to be caught with my pants down with no winter tires. Reason for me waffling between 3-peak MAF all-terrains and all-weather SUVs (like the Toyo Celsius CUV or Nokian WRG3) is that winters here in Metro Vancouver aren't too severe as we get maybe a week of sub-0C temps and snow, with the rest of winters being mostly slush/rain. So I'm looking for a class of tire that can cover the two scenarios adequately. Yeah I know ideally you want to get the proper tire for the job. But I really don't want 3 sets of tires like I mentioned. I'm just thinking that the Nitto Nomad Grapplers will be too much of an all-terrain bias for the very few times of off-roading I'll actually be needing it during the year.

As an off-road noob, can any of you tell me how an all-weather SUV tire would perform in well-to-moderately maintained forest service roads (i.e. comprised of gravel, 2" crush, and the odd creek crossing? And why a 3-peak MSF tire might be better?

Yeah I know

Again, thanks.

 

[UG_Passat]

Yeah it's me again; off-road newbie. Yes I've been peppering you guys with questions re rims tires etc. So thanks again in advance.

The Nokian Outpost APT I've been wanting are out of stock in the entire north america it seems. My only other option is the Nitto Nomad Grappler (3-peak MSF) which is in stock. As I've mentioned before, I want to avoid three sets of tires. So my 2nd set would be used for the two months of Metro Vancouver winters with some trips to the local ski hills. The 2nd set would also be used occasionally for 1 mo in the summer on well-moderately maintained forest service roads (i.e. comprised of gravel, 2" crush, and the odd creek crossing) to access my favorite summer backcountry trails.

This on a 2023 Hyundai Kona, which is on order and being assembled in November (and a January delivery). That puts me in a bit of a pickle. 'Cause now, my car (a 2013 Ford Focus ST) I'm going to be caught with my pants down with no winter tires. Reason for me waffling between 3-peak MAF all-terrains and all-weather SUVs (like the Toyo Celsius CUV or Nokian WRG3) is that winters here in Metro Vancouver aren't too severe as we get maybe a week of sub-0C temps and snow, with the rest of winters being mostly slush/rain. So I'm looking for a class of tire that can cover the two scenarios adequately. Yeah I know ideally you want to get the proper tire for the job. But I really don't want 3 sets of tires like I mentioned. I'm just thinking that the Nitto Nomad Grapplers will be too much of an all-terrain bias for the very few times of off-roading I'll actually be needing it during the year.

As an off-road noob, can any of you tell me how an all-weather SUV tire would perform in well-to-moderately maintained forest service roads (i.e. comprised of gravel, 2" crush, and the odd creek crossing? And why a 3-peak MSF tire might be better?

Yeah I know

Again, thanks.

I have run UHPAS going light off-roading, which included having 1 wheel in the air in my old Tiguan, with no issues (Nokian Z-line A/S), including stopping on purpose to test my AWD system. Fire roads aren't an issue. If it gets muddy, then it becomes an issue, as the tread will get filled in with mud, so that you have no traction. That's why Mud terrain tires have huge voids compared to an all-terrain tire.

3PMSF is for winter conditions, not off-roading. There is no Rubber Manufacturer's Association tests for Off-roading certification.

There are plenty of videos online from YouTube auto reviewers taking factory all-season tires off-road, such as TFL, DrivingSports.tv, Sarah-n-tuned, etc. They tend to go more extreme than regular owners tend to go off path

 

[Boomer]

Look at Michelin Cross Climate 2. Leave them on all year around....good in rain snow, gravel, etc.

 

[AJW001]

If it gets muddy, then it becomes an issue, as the tread will get filled in with mud, so that you have no traction. That's why Mud terrain tires have huge voids compared to an all-terrain tire.

Ah...makes sense.

Are you ever concerned about sidewall punctures? From what I've learned so far, all-terrains generally have beefed up sidewalls to resist punctures and for additional traction (along the cross-section of the tire).

 

[UG_Passat]

Ah...makes sense.

Are you ever concerned about sidewall punctures? From what I've learned so far, all-terrains generally have beefed up sidewalls to resist punctures and for additional traction (along the cross-section of the tire).

Not with Nokian SUV tires... they have Aramid-reinforced sidewalls, as in the case with the Nokian Entyre C/S and Nokian WR G4 SUV I had on my previous SUV.

That tech trickled down to passenger car tires, with the Tyres One, it also has Aramid reinforced sidewalls

 

[AJW001]

Not with Nokian SUV tires... they have Aramid-reinforced sidewalls, as in the case with the Nokian Entyre C/S and Nokian WR G4 SUV I had on my previous SUV.

Yes, I saw that re the aramid-reinforced sidewalls. But I think that's for the SUV version. Unfortunately the SUV version isn't available in my size of 225/55R17.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Really crazy but did you contact Nokian? I actually did that with one of my vehicles WAY BACK, either my Explorer or the Sequoia. Emails and calls looking for the Hak 1 SUV. They were still in the container. I paid Nokian and they sent me 4 as soon as they hit. Good memories. Worth a shot and maybe they can give you options (even Canada/Europe).

The Encompass AW01 has Aramid sidewalls, passenger tire.

 

[AJW001]

Yeah, now that I think about it, I've seen plenty of vehicles out in the backcountry roads with only their factory OEMs and they did fine.

 

[Pelican]

I've used All-Weathers for the past 15 yrs, I've Nokian WRG3 on my Outback and now Toyo Celcius on my RX350 and find them
equally good. The reason why I have Celcius is because Nokian did not come in that size at that time. I leave them on all year round.
In your case i'd lean toward the Nokian as Nokia has a bit more experience in making off road tire, but either one IMO would be an excellent choice. BTW I'm in the GTA.

 

[AJW001]

I've used All-Weathers for the past 15 yrs, I've Nokian WRG3 on my Outback and now Toyo Celcius on my RX350 and find them
equally good. The reason why I have Celcius is because Nokian did not come in that size at that time. I leave them on all year round.
In your case i'd lean toward the Nokian as Nokia has a bit more experience in making off road tire, but either one IMO would be an excellent choice. BTW I'm in the GTA.

Can you comment on how the all-weathers fared in mild off-road (as I've described) compared to any all-terrains?

 

[Pelican]

Can you comment on how the all-weathers fared in mild off-road (as I've described) compared to any all-terrains?

I don't know what they mean by "All-Terrains" but as far as I understand it they are NOT suitable for winter driving which requires a different
rubber compound (High silica) good for low temperatures and a higher number of sipes to provide traction on ice. They'll do well in your scenario, but they are NOT off road tires. The all weather have been able to marry the 2 compounds and create a tire that performs well under most circumstances. Having said that the all weathers are still a compromise, they are not as good as winter tires in really deep snow and not as good as summer tires in the dry. The silica side will wear more.

 

[AJW001]

I don't know what they mean by "All-Terrains" but as far as I understand it they are NOT suitable for winter driving which requires a different
rubber compound (High silica) good for low temperatures and a higher number of sipes to provide traction on ice. They'll do well in your scenario, but they are NOT off road tires. The all weather have been able to marry the 2 compounds and create a tire that performs well under most circumstances. Having said that the all weathers are still a compromise, they are not as good as winter tires in really deep snow and not as good as summer tires in the dry. The silica side will wear more.

So maybe like a Nokian WRG4, Michelin CrossClimate2, or Toyo Celsius CUV then these are the top contenders. Really, I'm not too concerned if they wear a bit faster in the summer for the 1 month I will occasionally use them for casual off-road.

 

[Pew]

Whilst not an All-Weather tire, I've used winter tires (I think they were either the Altimax Arctics or Goodyear Ultragrip Ice WRT) on the Focus through some well maintained dry forest roads and dry creek beds before completely fine. But by well maintained, I mean really just washboard gravel roads that you can comfortably take a rental car down at full speed before you had to slow down for the dry creek crossings. However like UG_Passat said, I would rather turn around than go through mud.

Used winter tires are also the go-to for cheap dirt/rally racing tires if you can't get 16" wheels and gravel tires.

 

[AJW001]

Whilst not an All-Weather tire, I've used winter tires (I think they were either the Altimax Arctics or Goodyear Ultragrip Ice WRT) on the Focus through some well maintained dry forest roads and dry creek beds before completely fine. But by well maintained, I mean really just washboard gravel roads that you can comfortably take a rental car down at full speed before you had to slow down for the dry creek crossings. However like UG_Passat said, I would rather turn around than go through mud.

Used winter tires are also the go-to for cheap dirt/rally racing tires if you can't get 16" wheels and gravel tires.

Oh that's pretty much what I'd be doing. Thanks then!