Supersyn vs. Schaeffer 7000

[Night Owl]

Without the cost factor considered, what would be the pros and cons of each oil? I am trying to decide which oil would be of most benefit if cost is not a factor. Thanks, Scott

 

[Kevin in Texas]

I think both are excellent oils. They both have Moly in them for excellent wear protection. Due to the Mobil 1 being a 100% syn, you may be able to go a little longer in between changes. For me, I use M1 SS 10W-30, because I can get it easily and if you hit it right at Walmart you can get a 5 qt jug for $17.88 ($3.86/qt with 8% tax). I read a post earlier this weekend where someone paid $3.00/qt for Schaeffer + $10 Shipping. So if a case is 12, then you would pay $3.83/qt. The Schaeffer 10w30 oil is 16-20% PAO, whereas the M1 is 100% syn. I don't think you could go wrong with either oil. Both are excellent choices!

 

[dragboat]

If the minimum order of 250.00 is made you get free shipping of the Shaeffers oil and is also less than 3.00 per quart. 2.75 give or take I like the 10/30 Supreme because of it's low low cold crank pressures and also is a good summer oil for most applications If you go to the analysis section it appears the Sheaffers can be a long drain interval oil as well,it is just not advertised that way,alot of your choice will depend on vehicle useages imo and both seem to be very good oils,I am trying to decide what to do now and in the future myself Hey Kevin,what are you using the Mobil SS in? Any oil consumption to speak of? I have been looking at that oil is why I ask [ September 16, 2002, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Might I add that Schaeffers has more than just moly to their antiwear/FM and many feel that just the moly is sufficent. Although moly is a great barrier additive, there's more to schaeffers included the fact of overall balance of the antioxidants/detergents and so forth. I'm not for sure but I think amsoil is using another additive which we have as well , and is now starting to appear on some spectro analysis reports. Agreed, if over the counter oils are to be considered m1 ss is proving out to be a good oil now that they have included moly in their ss blend, its doing fine. As for lasting longer, I do not believe the m1 will provide a whole lot of difference there unless you are putting your oil through more stress than what a motor can handle. Kinda like shooting a tin can off of a fence, you can use a rifle to hit it with good aim, have focus and do the same effective job of hitting it as you would using a cannon. Each can effectively knock off the tin can, but when it comes down to effectivness, both did the same thing, one can be a slight overkill and when it comes to engines, m1 imo might be a slight overkill for effective lubrication as the blend will do a very effective job on extended drains. So what it comes down to is, price, availability, and desire for different additive package that hasn't changed in many years and has been proven out for those years, unlike m1 has recently started to incorporate the moly and different barrier additives and IMO is most likely going to refine and tweak it more over the years. One other point I might add, shipping varies depending on where you are at, and if you purchase a minimal amount such as one case. But if you purchase a min of 250.00 you get a wholesale price which is under 3.00 and no shipping, so that in itself can make a considerable difference in costs. I have one guy that ordered that way, and apparently his co workers are so interested in it that he sold them all his oil before he even got it, and now had to put in another order. Bottom line, You're not going to go wrong either way imo, but i like the idea of the oldest company (schaeffers) with the more proven track record on it's consistancy and long use of it's already been tweeked additive package over the new and improved m1. I want to add, that take this as a biased personal opinion as i do sell schaeffers and don't want to mis lead you in anyway as to my position on this. bob

 

[Dominic]

After finding that the Mobil1 Trisynthetic 10W-30 was causing my valves to chatter like a diesel in my 3.8L Camaro on cold starts, and finding it tended to drink 1qt of oil running M1 in 3,000 miles - I changed to Valvoline Maxlife. All above problems ceased to exist any longer. I don't believe M1 is as good as it is theorized to be for engine lubrication and I would definetly say the Schaeffers is most likely a much better product hands down. However, I have not yet tested Schaeffers personally, but in the future I will.

 

[jjbula]

Dominic, I'm going to compare Valvoline Synpower with Schaeffer Blend. When I reach 6 or 7K with the valvoline I'll switch over. The Valvoline is still not very dark at 5.6K. M1 normally gets darker sooner in my Camry. I'm not convinced that dark is bad, unless it is extra blowby that could be avoided. I would rather the "dark stuff" stay in the oil and not in the engine.

 

[Dominic]

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Originally posted by jjbula: Dominic, I'm going to compare Valvoline Synpower with Schaeffer Blend. When I reach 6 or 7K with the valvoline I'll switch over. The Valvoline is still not very dark at 5.6K. M1 normally gets darker sooner in my Camry. I'm not convinced that dark is bad, unless it is extra blowby that could be avoided. I would rather the "dark stuff" stay in the oil and not in the engine.

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Most definetly, there are many factors that darken an oil! I almost can say without doubt the Schaeffers is a better product than the Valvoline Synpower - but I've never had any problems with the Synpower's durability myself so its also *good*. It will be interesting to see what you find. My only concern with darkening oil is if its a result of oxidation/cooking. If an oil is more resistant to this and is a better oil for higher temps - perhaps it wont oxidize as fast and will stay cleaner looking longer?

 

[BrewCityR]

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I don't think you will routinely see folks running the kind of change intervals that you can with the top line synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Redline). I think you can easily run the 6000 mile/6 month change intervals you are talking about with either oil. TooSlick[/QB]

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I'd wouldn't go over 6k with Amsoil or M1, but Redline I do not know too much about. I've been using Amsoil since the spring but never intended to obey their absurd 25k intervals. I plan to switch to 10w30 Schaeffer's ASAP.

 

[VaderSS]

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I'd wouldn't go over 6k with Amsoil or M1

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Why not? If analysis shows that it will do it, why wouldn't you. It all depends on the application, but for me, Mobil 1 Formula and TS 5W30 has been good to 9-11k intervals. I am hoping to be able to go even further than that with the 0W40 SuperSyn.

 

[Al]

The other possibility is the Shaeffer's Molly Pure Syn which is 5W-30. Still slightly cheaper than Mobil 1. I use both Mobil 1 and Shaeffers. I will be doing an analysis on the Shaeffers Syn in the future. I still plan on using Mobil 1 10W-30 in one of my vehicles. I think it is a great oil.

 

[Patman]

I'm very interested in seeing how the Schaeffer full synthetic handles long drains. Since the blend can handle 10-12k, I would imagine the full synthetic can handle 15k plus.

 

[94 formula]

Well why should you even wait that long to change the oil even if its OK to do....I mean wouldnt it be better to change it early and have some fresh oil in the car even if it will go on for another 2k miles or so?

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

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Originally posted by TooSlick: Night Owl, Mobil 1 is a full (PAO/Ester) synthetic and has an initial TBN of about 12 ...the Schaeffers Supreme 7000 is about 30% synthetic (PAO) and also uses a good additive chemistry, but has a TBN of 7+ (their 5w-30/10w-30). You'll notice that the Schaeffers straight 5w30 mineral based oil shows 7.1 TBN. The 701 5w30 shows the same which has PAO added to it, as you pointed out. This statement made about the higher tbn being a better choice is invalid as we have proven many times how one tbn can deplete much faster than some others and through it all schaeffers has a better antioxidant level not shown in a td sheet. This higher level of antioxidants will put less strain on the oil and doesn't require a higher tbn to start with. In other-words, it doesn't need as much tbn to clean acids because it doesn't allow acids to form as easily unlike oils that require higher tbn to clean acids it can't stop from forming. I believe you will find that Mobil 1 offers advantages in engine cleanliness, longer change intervals and better engine performance in very cold or very hot weather. I think that until you try running the schaeffers blend yourself TS, you're basing your statements of your opinion with no actual experience with this oil and obviously not watched the oil analysis that are being reported back on schaeffers that closely. The blend is holding up as long as most synth's being reported. Fact is, the interesting thing about most of these extended drains is that the extended drains with schaeffers is usually on one filter and no makeup oil(in my analysis) and the other extended drains by synth's are with filter changes at 6k with make up oil which suggests replenishing additives to continue on. IMO, I believe you'd find that the blend has proven out to be a strong contender for a quality oil and at this time feel that the straight mineral oil is proving out to be an equal to extended drains as well as wear protection. The Schaeffers S7000 in an excellent value in a synthetic blend, but I don't think you will routinely see folks running the kind of change intervals that you can with the top line synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Redline). That statement is true do to your type of thinking with just the use of a TD sheet. Many fail to understand that just because it's not a full synth it can do the extended drains once you get past the stereotyping of the base oils used although many times you would correct in a lot of cases. I think you can easily run the 6000 mile/6 month change intervals you are talking about with either oil. Finally, I agree with that statement TooSlick

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[ November 30, 2002, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Last_Z]

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Originally posted by Patman: The way I see it is if the oil can still do it's job perfectly well, why change it too often? In my case I have 4 cars in my family which I change the oil on, so I would rather not do 20 oil changes a year. So I try to stretch it longer, through oil analysis, to make sure I'm not going too far. I'm going to be doing a super extended interval test next year on both of my own cars, my wife's on Royal Purple 5w30 and mine with Schaeffer 10w30. I'll use the Fram Sure Drain system so that I can just drain out a small sample of the oil while still keeping the rest in there. It should be an interesting test, stay tuned! I'll be taking samples at the 9k, 12k, 15k (and every 3k beyond) mark on my Firebird, and at 5k, 8k, 11k on my wife's car. I won't change the oil until the analysis says it needs it.

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Call me stupid, but I just can't leave oil in my car for 15k miles, much less 25k like AMSOIL claims. Why would I want that crap running through the engine for such a long time? I don't care if it is suspended in the oil, the filter will begin to slow oil pressure at some point (since it has collected so much stuff); but whatever doesn't get caught by the filter goes right back to the engine (in between bearings, cylinders, camshafts, etc) over and over and over. I will be switching back to M1 SS (currently running Havoline Syn 10W-30) and the most I will do is 5000-7000 miles. Rick [ November 30, 2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]

 

[liquidballbearing]

I have a 1998 Chevy Monte Carlo that had run Mobil 1 5w30/10w30 since new. I always had that brief valvetrain chatter that several M1 users have commented about. I changed over to Schaeffer's 7000 10w30 about a month ago and the problem with the chatter is gone. I am a very skeptical person as are most people on this board, but I truly believe that the Schaeffer's 7000 has eliminated the problem. No doubt some of you will post that I am only "covering up" the problem and that the problem is actually GM piston slap, but I am very happy with the blend so far.

 

[Neil Womack]

Night Owl I've recently switched all my vehicles from Mobil 1 or Mobil Delvac 1 to Schaeffers 7000 15w-40. My research on which oil is the best lead me to this web site and this web site and its contributers helped me determine that Schaeffer's is the best oil for the money. Sure you can get great oil at for $6.00, $7.00 or $8.00 a quart. But to what end. Why spend $8.00 a quart for Royal Purple/RedLine/Synergyn/Amsoil when a $3.00 Schaeffer's oil will get to the same destination and with more money in your pocket. If you'll look back at some of the threads in this web site you also will see that dollar for dollar Schaeffer's is a match for any other oil including the full synthetics. My break even point when comparing mineral oil at 3000 mile changes to Schaeffers is 4500 miles. That is the costs balance at 4500 miles. Any thing beyond that is money in my pocket. My balance point for Amsoil was about 7500 miles. Now I have yet to get to my first 6000 mile analysis on the Schaeffers. But judging from what I see here I expect that I could go 10000 miles on a $3.00 oil. Besides saving me money ( reason enough to switch alone) some other good things have happened as soon as I switched to Schaeffer's 15w-40. The Saturn's drinking problem has all but gone away. My mileage, in both the F-150 and the Saturn) may be up a little. But I need to compare MPG over at least 3 months to get a valid sample. The F-150 seems quieter and smoother now. But that probably my imagination.

 

[buster]

I would never go over 10K miles with out changing it. Oil is cheap and it takes 30mins to change it yourself. I found my valves were clinging for a short time in cold starts, and then later in the day it wouldnt happen again. Could this be from M1? I have a hard time believing it is from the oil but since I switched to Amsoil, the problem went away. Could be coincidence. [ November 30, 2002, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Bror Jace]

Bob, dude, you gotta edit that post of yours. I can't make stink of it the way it is. Last Z, even the big Amsoil supporters on this forum don't buy into 25K mile oil drains ... unless you qualify it with gentle driving, low RPMs and a bypass filter changed out a handful of times during that interval. With all the topping off, it's like you've added several new quarts of oil during that time. When I talk about extending drains, I'm talking about from 3,000 miles to 4-6,000 miles. That's about it. Neil, while I'll defend my decision to spend a little more for a boutique oil like Red Line, I've also said that I strongly suspect Schaeffer oil is more protection for the $. --- Bror Jace

 

[satterfi]

Bob Inserting your comments in someone else's post with the "reply with quotes" makes figuring out your response **** near impossible. It's too hard to figure out what you are trying to say. I've seen the practice of inserting comments like this on other boards and after a short period, I stop reading that persons post.

 

[OneQuartLow]

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Originally posted by satterfi: Bob Inserting your comments in someone else's post with the "reply with quotes" makes figuring out your response **** near impossible. It's too hard to figure out what you are trying to say. ...

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I normally like interspersed comments. They allow replies to points without restating/paraphrasing/mangling them. UBB code doesn't make it easy though. With old versions I ran I modified the code to put a "tweeze" button on the reply page. It inserted an endquote startquote to preserve context. i.e.

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your line 1

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The button just inserted: "(/QB)(/QUOTE) blanklines (quote)(qb)" Not sure if modifying the reply page is as simple with current versions. An easy way to make things readable is to switch out of bold. Of the various style changes, it stands out the most and requires the least keystrokes. (Unless some idjit posts with mixed bold.) David