Studless V/S studded winter tires

Messages
13,232
Location
ROCHESTER, NY
In 2012-13, I asked The Tire Rack(not for the best winter tire but) for their best winter tire the performs best on ice. In the size that I needed/available, they told me the Bridgestone Blizzak WS** OR the General AltiMAX Arctic. I took the Arctic for the better price. These are studdable tires but we DO NOT have the studs...Theeeeey're GRRRRREAT!
 
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Messages
6,456
Location
Connecticut
Originally Posted by Char Baby
In 2012-13, I asked The Tire Rack(not for the best winter tire but) for their best winter tire the performs best on ice. In the size that I needed/available, they told me the Bridgestone Blizzak WS** OR the General AltiMAX Arctic. I took the Arctic for the better price. These are studdable tires but we DO NOT have the studs...Theeeeey're GRRRRREAT!
+1 on the General Altimax Arctic. Have them on my RWD BMW (without studs) and have driven through several inches of snow in mountains without issue yet.
 
Messages
6,565
Location
New England
Originally Posted by atikovi
I can't imagine any need for studs on a 4x4 in flat Iowa. Are they even still made? I don't think I've even seen a car with studs around here since the 80's before FWD became the majority.
Studs are likely illegal in your area.
 
Messages
17,740
Location
NH
Originally Posted by leeharvey418
Originally Posted by madRiver
Studs are likely illegal in your area.
You might be surprised. I was fairly shocked to learn that Kentucky allows studs to be run year-round.
What else would they do? They don't do inspections. Last time I was down there I found myself following a single white light bulb down the road--the car in front of me only had one taillight, and it was broken at that. * I haven't run studded tires yet, mostly out of fear of increased noise. Plus the majority of my driving is on bare pavement. I honestly don't think we get that much ice out here--and when we do, it's just best to stay home. Decent studless works for us on the vehicles that get snow tires. Plus some make the argument that studded tires have lower traction on bare pavement, and up here while people slow down some when it snows, speeds stay really high when the pavement is good--which means dry traction is something I should be concerned with. 22 miles each way? I'd look into the effects of aging out. Tires dry out as they get older, have less grip. Would hate for you to get a great set then find that they didn't last more than 2 or 3 winters. Also, I don't know what kind of all seasons you use, but you might want to look into what "good" ones for snow are. Reason being, in the past I'd be sweating out when to put snows on, and sometimes would wind up putting on way early, like Thanksgiving--then spend the next month driving on bare pavement. Maybe great all seasons would get you deep into December before the real snow flies. Although this might be best if you're capable of putting the wheels on yourself--tire shops get stupid busy when the first snow storm hits, everyone trying to get snows put on. You getting a dedicated set of rims to go with these tires?
 
Messages
14,672
Location
Central NY
My mother has studded Hakkapellittas on her Escape. Daily commute is 45 miles round trip. The first set lasted 5 winters and were still good enough that I would have run them another winter. The second set has only been through one winter but shows very little wear. They are quiet enough that you don't even notice. The Winterforce I ran on my Focus were ridiculous. I've used studded all terrains before and didn't notice an increase in noise. I've had great luck with unstudded tires in hardpack and ice: Blizzak WS50, GT Radial Chamipiro IcePro, Nokian Vatiiva (not even a snow tire ...). And I've had terrible luck with unstudded tires: Hankook IPike.
 

Pew

Messages
1,297
Location
Illinois
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Char Baby
In 2012-13, I asked The Tire Rack(not for the best winter tire but) for their best winter tire the performs best on ice. In the size that I needed/available, they told me the Bridgestone Blizzak WS** OR the General AltiMAX Arctic. I took the Arctic for the better price. These are studdable tires but we DO NOT have the studs...Theeeeey're GRRRRREAT!
+1 on the General Altimax Arctic. Have them on my RWD BMW (without studs) and have driven through several inches of snow in mountains without issue yet.
Not gonna lie, I was disappointed with the Altimax Arctic (version before the 12.) They seemed to be inferior to the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT I used prior for two seasons in every way except NVH.
 
Messages
3,877
Location
Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Char Baby
In 2012-13, I asked The Tire Rack(not for the best winter tire but) for their best winter tire the performs best on ice. In the size that I needed/available, they told me the Bridgestone Blizzak WS** OR the General AltiMAX Arctic. I took the Arctic for the better price. These are studdable tires but we DO NOT have the studs...Theeeeey're GRRRRREAT!
+1 on the General Altimax Arctic. Have them on my RWD BMW (without studs) and have driven through several inches of snow in mountains without issue yet.
I ran studs on my first set of Kelly winter tires over 15 years ago. It needed them as the tread pattern was not all that sophisticated. Since then I have had graduated to General Altimax Arctic (not studded) on my cars for well over a decade. I have always felt confidence in them. I am on to the General Altimax Arctic12 version now and it is even better. Here is an interesting article: https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/studded-winter-tires#
 
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Messages
13,232
Location
ROCHESTER, NY
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Char Baby
In 2012-13, I asked The Tire Rack(not for the best winter tire but) for their best winter tire the performs best on ice. In the size that I needed/available, they told me the Bridgestone Blizzak WS** OR the General AltiMAX Arctic. I took the Arctic for the better price. These are studdable tires but we DO NOT have the studs...Theeeeey're GRRRRREAT!
+1 on the General Altimax Arctic. Have them on my RWD BMW (without studs) and have driven through several inches of snow in mountains without issue yet.
Not gonna lie, I was disappointed with the Altimax Arctic (version before the 12.) They seemed to be inferior to the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT I used prior for two seasons in every way except NVH.
Absolutely this can happen. I personally have never compared winter tires but I do like what we've chosen. It's like snow doesn't exist. And the Arctic are reasonably quiet.
 
Messages
3,877
Location
Alberta, Canada
I did try Blizzaks once before Altimax....they were spendy but great. I made the mistake of driving with them slightly above freezing for a week and they were wearing as fast as a snow cone melts in Phoenix. Then when you get to 50% you are down to all seasons. I found the Altimax siping goes deeper into the tread and you get a winter grip for longer, but that is my 2cents
 

cecil56

Thread starter
Messages
12
Location
Iowa
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
I did try Blizzaks once before Altimax....they were spendy but great. I made the mistake of driving with them slightly above freezing for a week and they were wearing as fast as a snow cone melts in Phoenix. Then when you get to 50% you are down to all seasons. I found the Altimax siping goes deeper into the tread and you get a winter grip for longer, but that is my 2cents
I'm trying to get a balance between tread wear and traction. A good majority of miles would be above freezing temps. Most of my driving is not in really nasty conditions, however I prefer to be able to handle them, should they occur. If the Blizzak's melt like snow cones in warm weather, they are not for me. Between December and March - Iowa temps could range from 60 F to -20 F. I would prefer to get a couple years out of the winter tires anyway. I did studded tires on the old pickup. Got 2, maybe 3 years on each set before the studs wore out. After that, I just used a pair of dykes, pulled out the studs and ran them until the next winter. Studded tires must be off by a certain date in Iowa each year. (doubt they enforce it much, but I obey the law)
 
Messages
3,476
Location
Parts Unknown
Originally Posted by cecil56
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
I did try Blizzaks once before Altimax....they were spendy but great. I made the mistake of driving with them slightly above freezing for a week and they were wearing as fast as a snow cone melts in Phoenix. Then when you get to 50% you are down to all seasons. I found the Altimax siping goes deeper into the tread and you get a winter grip for longer, but that is my 2cents
I'm trying to get a balance between tread wear and traction. A good majority of miles would be above freezing temps. Most of my driving is not in really nasty conditions, however I prefer to be able to handle them, should they occur. If the Blizzak's melt like snow cones in warm weather, they are not for me. Between December and March - Iowa temps could range from 60 F to -20 F. I would prefer to get a couple years out of the winter tires anyway. I did studded tires on the old pickup. Got 2, maybe 3 years on each set before the studs wore out. After that, I just used a pair of dykes, pulled out the studs and ran them until the next winter. Studded tires must be off by a certain date in Iowa each year. (doubt they enforce it much, but I obey the law)
Why not look at an All-weather tire like a Nokian WR G4 SUV, Vredestein Quatrac Pro (new), Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady, and the Firestone offering (new), depending on which tire is available in your size.
 
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Messages
789
Location
Michigan, USA
In Michigan we're not allowed to run studs in the lower peninsula, I have the Hercules Avalanche X-treme tires which are pinned for studs and they have been really good on snow and ice even without the studs. Somewhat aggressive snow pattern with lots of sipes. They are way better than any all terrain I have run in the winter months.
 
Messages
778
Location
Southeast Michigan
Originally Posted by Bighorn2500
In Michigan we're not allowed to run studs in the lower peninsula,
Has the law changed? Last I knew, if a police officer wanted to be a jerk, they could force a driver on studded tires to produce documentation from the tire manufacturer that demonstrates that the tires are proven to cause no more damage to pavement surfaces than an unstudded tire. Of course nobody would ever have such documentation, so the driver would receive a citation.
 
Messages
11,405
Location
USA
Originally Posted by leeharvey418
Originally Posted by Bighorn2500
In Michigan we're not allowed to run studs in the lower peninsula,
Has the law changed? Last I knew, if a police officer wanted to be a jerk, they could force a driver on studded tires to produce documentation from the tire manufacturer that demonstrates that the tires are proven to cause no more damage to pavement surfaces than an unstudded tire. Of course nobody would ever have such documentation, so the driver would receive a citation.
Nokian can probably demonstrate this with the Hakka 9 But even if you can't use studs, the R3 is a very good studless
 
Messages
3,476
Location
Parts Unknown
Originally Posted by leeharvey418
Originally Posted by Bighorn2500
In Michigan we're not allowed to run studs in the lower peninsula,
Has the law changed? Last I knew, if a police officer wanted to be a jerk, they could force a driver on studded tires to produce documentation from the tire manufacturer that demonstrates that the tires are proven to cause no more damage to pavement surfaces than an unstudded tire. Of course nobody would ever have such documentation, so the driver would receive a citation.
https://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1878_90937-73839--,00.html Question: Are studded tires legal in Michigan? Answer: In practical terms, no. MCL 257.710 allows for the use of studded tires if they meet the specifications listed in subparts (c), (d), and (e). The part that specifically deals with studded tires is subpart (d) which states; "The department of state highways and transportation shall promulgate rules establishing acceptable standards to permit the use of a tire with studs or other traction devices to be used on a street or highway after April 1, 1975. The rules shall make separate provision for the extreme winter snow and ice conditions of the Upper Peninsula and the Northern Lower Peninsula. The rules shall include a restriction on the amount and dimension of protrusions that may be allowed on a tire, the type of material that may be used in a stud, traction device, or tire, and the amount of road wear that a tire with studs or other traction devices may cause on a street or highway." Administrative Rules 247.171 through 247.175 govern studded tires and set the criteria for their use. These rules state two conditions that must be met for the use of studded tires. Note: to date no manufacturer of tire studs has supplied information to the Michigan Department of Transportation that their product meets or exceeds the required pavement wear specifications. First, they can only be used between November 15 and April 1 of the succeeding year except in the Upper Peninsula and the Northern Lower Peninsula, where, because of extreme winter snow and ice conditions, they may be used between October 1 and May 1 of the succeeding year. Northern Lower Peninsula is defined as those counties whose southern boundaries are as far or farther north than the southern boundary of Missaukee county. Second, studs or other traction devices shall not be used unless they wear either concrete or asphalt pavements, typical of those in this state, at a rate not to exceed 25% of the reference standard studded tire. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(4cssclx5n3ffcebyreznikzv))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-257-710 (c) A person may operate on a highway a vehicle which has a pneumatic tire in which wire of .075 inches in diameter or less is embedded if the tire is constructed so that the percent of metal in contact with the highway does not exceed 5% of the total tire area in contact with the roadway, except that during the first 1,000 miles of use or operation of the tire the metal in contact with the highway shall not exceed 20% of the area. (d) The department of state highways and transportation shall promulgate rules establishing acceptable standards to permit the use of a tire with studs or other traction devices to be used on a street or highway after April 1, 1975. The rules shall make separate provision for the extreme winter snow and ice conditions of the Upper Peninsula and the northern Lower Peninsula. The rules shall include a restriction on the amount and dimension of protrusions that may be allowed on a tire, the type of material that may be used in a stud, traction device, or tire, and the amount of road wear that a tire with studs or other traction devices may cause on a street or highway. (e) A person may operate on a highway a vehicle which has a pneumatic tire in which are inserted ice grips or tire studs if the person is a law enforcement officer operating a vehicle owned by a law enforcement agency, a person operating an ambulance, or a United States postal service rural carrier driving a vehicle the rural carrier owns and maintains as a prerequisite to employment in the postal service.
 
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