Student loans leave crushing debt burden

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Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Maybe it's time to switch to the European model of free education for everyone. It will eliminate OP's issue with debt and move the country forward to make us more competitive with the emerging economic competition.


I'm in favour of free to a degree.

First Bachelor's degree should be free...Masters, PhD etc. should be paid for or privately sponsored. Change your mind/career, either pay (full), or convince your boss to pay
 
I still think getting a degree generally carries you much further in life as a person and career wise than not. Even as a segway to military, trades or housewife whatever.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


I'm in favour of free to a degree.

First Bachelor's degree should be free.

Where will the money come from? Its not there in the U.S. Australia, maybe.

And if education becomes free, it may become as poor as out "Public" Education system.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
-Stop university growth conquests. These "non profit" entities keep jacking costs up and running like businesses in need of profit, which they then roll back up into buildings, brick sidewalks and other things that are not necessary in any way. Donors and true need-based justification for reasonable accommodations should be the mode of operation.


I work at a very large state university. This growth aspect kills me. Constant construction regardless of the economy. We are now demolishing "old" (1960's) brick/mortar married housing units and they are "sneaking up" new "plush amenities" married housing because they need to "stay competitive".

Dorms across the nation compete for best food services. Salad bars, desert bars, you name it. College should not be the "life of Riley"!

Our state support (tuition) has dropped from about 70% to about 35% in the last 15 years. Massive tuition hikes have made up the difference. Yet, students are still turned away due to demand exceeding supply (class space). Go figure.

Hint, in my family's case, some deep digging found many private and corporate scholarships available at community college (they said many go unrewarded due to lack of applicants/apathy!!!).

Yes, fiscal responsibility is lacking in ALL areas regarding higher education.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Go to a community college for 2 years/live at home. Transfer to a cheaper state school and take something where there is a demand.



hey Al, I did exactly what you said above. My folks let me live with them rent free, I drove beaters, and I graduated with no debt.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Kids go to a college at $25+++ K/year and borrow it and take something like pholosophy where there are no jobs.

Go to a community college for 2 years/live at home. Transfer to a cheaper state school and take something where there is a demand.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for some of the families who overload themselves. [clueless]


I did this exact thing. Got a BSBA for about $17,000. Community colleges are very underrated.
 
Quote:
My cuz is a grade school catholic school teacher. Her kids are clueless. One wanted to be an astronaut as late as 12th grade. He can't even read the guages on his car, and has zero technical skills. Those trips to Disneyland really messed him up. This morphed into an airline pilot,

You would be surprised at just how many high school kids and young adults are in LaLa Land and think their day dreams will turn into reality. So many kids think they will have an easy road to success without all the hard work involved. Some think they will be the next JayZ, Miley, Brittney, LeBron, Justin Bieber,... or some other high paid jack [censored].

Many kids today have no real desire to work hard and pay their dues, they think a piece of paper from Degree Mill University entitles them to a great paying career.... until they graduate and find out the about the real world. Even its getting to the point that the job market is getting flooded with people in health care (excluding doctors/specialty nurses...etc).
 
Originally Posted By: Al
And if education becomes free, it may become as poor as out "Public" Education system.


The absolute worst thing that happened to Oz Universities was to allow them to take full fee paying students who didn't have to meet the bar intelligence/knowledge wise.

They pay their dough, get their place, and expect their degree, thankyou very much.

And the quality of engineers getting pumped out of the now market driven sausage factory is absolutely rubbish.

My "free" degree actually carried with it an $8,000 bill at the end in 1990, and I don't have a problem with that.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

The absolute worst thing that happened to Oz Universities was to allow them to take full fee paying students who didn't have to meet the bar intelligence/knowledge wise.
And the quality of engineers getting pumped out of the now market driven sausage factory is absolutely rubbish.

I think you are painting with a broad brush. There are many colleges maybe even most that basically sell a degree. I think you find that many times these are smaller private colleges and degrees tend to be Liberal Arts.

But when you get into the sciences and Engineering studies things are for the most part somewhat different. State schools tend to be cheaper and more competitive than smaller private colleges..but again not always.

The U.S. dominates in terms of quality and quantity of Engineering Schools.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education...ng-and-it-.html

Go to any State Engineering school (or like Carnage Mellon or MIT or Stanford) (in the U.S) and you will find them packed with foreign students. In that respect we are our own worst enemy (as usual).

But again my point is: cost does by no means equate to quality. You have to look at the rankings.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandre...chools/rankings
 
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Originally Posted By: Al
I think you are painting with a broad brush. There are many colleges maybe even most that basically sell a degree. I think you find that many times these are smaller private colleges and degrees tend to be Liberal Arts.


No...
second toughest engineering degree in the county in 1987 (free to those who could jump the mental bar) is now turning out honours grads who can't explain Hookes Law...
 
I went to school back when tuition was about 1/3rd of what it is now. Even so, I absolutely could not have afforded college if it wasn't for the GI Bill from active duty and EAP for the National Guard.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

No...
second toughest engineering degree in the county in 1987 (free to those who could jump the mental bar) is now turning out honours grads who can't explain Hookes Law...

Like I said..narrow brush..one example. There are exceptions which I alluded to. Did you look at the lists I supplied??. And again you are talking Australia which has a tiny fraction of top flight engineering schools as in the U.S.
 
That's fine if they don't care for it. But I don't care for the attitude that stuff should be free. I say if you want something from the government, you have to make a value proposition to get it.

Want a "free" education? What are you offering the taxpayers who will ultimately pay for that education?

Military or other service is one such possibility!

A college degree shouldn't be free, either pay for it (and meet the standards of the University, I could cite my anecdotes about students who came from troubled areas who were granted admittance to W.U. based primarily on race, not performance, who flunked out because they were not ready for the challenges at a top 25 university.) or provide some sort of value proposition to those who you would have pay for your education.

College is, and should be an academically competitive endeavor. I agree, one shouldn't be able to buy their way in. But one should have to have their skin in the game and not expect others to just pay their way with no direct benefit to the benefactors who are paying the tab.

Originally Posted By: Anies
Originally Posted By: javacontour
ROTC paid most of my tab. I had to pay for my 9th semester, and all of my living expenses. But I had a job, I double majored (Software Engineering AND Electrical Engineering) and had little debt when I left school and was commissioned active duty Army.

I graduated from Washington University in STL, and even in the 1980's it was pretty pricey.

It can be done, but folks might want to look at military service. ROTC, the GI bill. My neighbor got his BA and MA while in the Air Force and went from enlisted to officer all while serving active duty.

He'll probably pin on Captain when he gets back from his deployment, so he gets the O3-E paygrade, plus the military benefits.

If you don't have the cash, military service is a great way to earn money if not your entire education.



The problem here is that Military Service is not the answer. Many people do not want to be part of it, or believe in it or care for it(as opinion always is).

The flip side to this is if you have everyone join the military then the benefits will be lessened as the payout is greater. Look at the two biggest majors in education today.

Nursing and Business. Both of these Majors have lulls and peaks in job pay/needs. In the mid 2000 craze business was on the boom because it was "in". Now its a lull and its worth squat. Nursing is on the rise because of health care and reform etc and everyone is flocking to that.

Job satisfaction means nothing as greed has driven everything, even the choices we make for education and majors. School is and always has been a business and they will fine ways to make you think its necessary.
 
PS, even with two degrees, I still qualify for 8 semesters at any IL state school. Military service has it's perks.
 
I got my Associates Degree through the Community College of the Air Force and my GI Bill paid for my Bachelor's degree.

I tell my nephews that there are MANY educational opportunities and technical training available through the military whether you are enlisted or an officer. Plus your security clearance is worth it if you decide to work for Uncle Sam as a civilian. My brother also got his Bachelor's degree paid for by his GI Bill, he has been with the VA for the last 18 years.
 
Colleges are becoming a major commercial industry just like any other industry (healthcare, aerospace, etc). They spend money recruiting customers (ie, students) and competing against other colleges. They advertise on TV and in printed media. It's not just Univ of Phoenix either; I've seen ads for non-profit universities on TV.

It's all being funded by our tax dollars. Can you imagine how cheap tuition would be if the government didn't guarantee student loans or give out grants?
 
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