Mortgage payoff experiences

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This can be a highly debated topic. I've done some reading on it, and there are a lot of mixed opinions out there. Unfortunately, most of them are from financial advisors and such, who are great at delivering an analytical view, but I'm more interested in hearing about other's real world experiences.


Background:

My wife and I are 30 and 31 years old. We don't make a ton of money (both public employees - her a high school teacher, myself an engineering tech/construction inspector), but we are both pretty conservative. No debt outside of the mortgage. Large expenses like education and cars were always saved for and paid for in cash; no credit card debt.

In 2014, we purchased a home for $223000. We opted for a 15 year fixed @ 3.25% on a $178,400 loan. No points, no PMI, just a straightforward 15. We set up direct deposit into a separate checking account dedicated to mortgage payments, where biweekly payments are automatically withdrawn (equating to one extra monthly payment per year).

Fast forward 2.5 years later. We now have a $150k loan balance remaining.

With no other debt, we've been able to save quite a bit as well. Quite a bit of cash has accumulated in our bank accounts. As many of you may know, it's not doing much for me sitting there earning 0.01% interest from the bank (that's all the love they can show us for making X% on the loans they fund with it?). I don't like it. I'm getting antsy.

Modern wisdom says that with such a low mortgage interest rate, I'd be better off investing the cash elsewhere. I've dabbled in stocks in the past with moderate success, but I have a hard time stomaching the ups and downs of the market. I can't keep my eyes off of it, I worry, I spend too much time on it. I just don't have the mindset for it.

I realize the investor's world is huge, but am pretty unfamiliar with most of it.

Given my long winded story, I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on taking some of the idle savings and using it to pay down the mortgage. $50k now, and then increasing the automatic payments nearly $300 dollars to pay off the house in 4-5 years before my kids start school. Essentially earning a tax-free 3.25% on the extra payments, this will save me $18000 in interest vs sticking with only the biweekly payments over 13.6 years, and save $23000 vs making the standard minimum monthly payments over 15 years.

Over the course of years, I think that's kind of insignificant and I can't help but think I could do better investing. However, imagining the financial freedom and cash flow of not having a house payment is intoxicating to me. It's almost difficult to grasp.

So... have any of you paid off your mortgage early? If so, was there ever any doubt as to if it was the right decision or not? How did you do it? Any benefits you didn't realize until it was done? Any other insight?
 
If you have been able to save that much money you are not short of cash for your monthly expenditures. It is nice having capital. Capital is hard to accumulate and easily dissipated. Start a brokerage account, invest in conservative ETF's. Continue paying on the (cheap money) mortgage. A time could easily come when you will need that capital!
 
My wife and I are in a similar boat as you, however we both had student loan debt that we paid off first. Our focus is now paying off the home loan as soon as possible. My brother is a banker and my financial advisor and despite him giving me better (i.e. more money) alternatives, paying off the house makes me feel a lot more secure especially since we are trying to start a family very soon.
 
There really is no right or wrong answer, it's what you feel the most comfortable with. With a low interest rate mortgage, you have a hedge against inflation, and with your money liquid if you fall on hard times you can still buy food and be prepared for an emergency if you need to buy something like a transmission. If it's tied up in the house, you're kinda stuck.

On the flip side, with the house paid off, you can quickly accumulate more savings and investments since you don't have that mortgage payment!
 
I'll just throw out from the opposing side, we are locked in at 3.375% on a 30 year. We invest the bulk of our disposable income. My advice, assuming you are a long term investor, would be to invest and index in something like the S&P 500 and forget it, not to look for the next hot stock or look at your returns daily or weekly. The compounded returns versus the mortgage interest (minus the write off) make it worth it (for us at least). But you have to balance that with the level of risk you are willing to stomach, and stress that might create for you wanted to watch the returns (or lack of) come in in the short term.
 
One thing to look at is the tax implications of the mortgage deduction. Not knowing your specific case, this could be a significant savings depending on your situation.

Historically, you can count on a 7+% return in the stock market. Also, you will not see any individual adviser beat the market over a period of time. My suggestion would be to look at WiseBanyan.com They offer free investing in ETFs with log fees. The signup process involves questions that a financial adviser would ask you to get a sense of your risk tolerance and to help find the right portfolio for your needs.

Other options, make sure you are maxing out your tax advantaged retirement accounts if you have extra cash to play with. It's hard to get upset about retiring early or with too much cash.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
with your money liquid if you fall on hard times you can still buy food and be prepared for an emergency if you need to buy something like a transmission. If it's tied up in the house, you're kinda stuck.

On the flip side, with the house paid off, you can quickly accumulate more savings and investments since you don't have that mortgage payment!


Originally Posted By: redbone3
It is nice having capital. Capital is hard to accumulate and easily dissipated. A time could easily come when you will need that capital!


Thanks for the replies.


Just to be clear, I'm not much of a gambler - the plan isn't to 'zero' out our accounts in doing this. We still have a seperate, untouched emergency fund that equates to about 1 year of covered expenses with no income from either of us.

Good call on the retirement - We both contribute to a pension as well as a 403 plan for her, and a 457 plan for me.
 
We bought our house in 1996 and paid it off around 2011. I honestly can't remember all the details (my wife is a CPA and handles most of the money other than my CC bill), but I think we started with a 20 year mortgage and then refinanced at 20 years again partway through when rates dropped dramatically. Other than a few months after we moved in when my wife wasn't working yet and a 6 month period when I was out of work in 2009 (anybody have fond memories of that wonderful year?), we always made extra payments.

Now, I got lucky with stock options before the 2008 crash and we had enough cash on hand to pay off the house before 2011, but we chose to invest most of it in various places and also buy a vacation property with some of it. I guess I'd think twice about sinking a very large portion of your savings in the house with possible expenses like children's college educations down the line...it sure was a nice feeling for me to just step back to paying the "minimum" on our mortgage while having a lot of savings on hand while I was scrambling for work in the summer of 2009.
 
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I guess I'd think twice about sinking a very large portion of your savings in the house with possible expenses like children's college educations down the line...it sure was a nice feeling for me to just step back to paying the "minimum" on our mortgage while having a lot of savings on hand while I was scrambling for work in the summer of 2009.



The kid's education is actually a large portion of the drive for me. My thought process is that since we are so young at this point (with a 18 month and one on the way), I could get the house paid off before either of them even start first grade - and it would leave me 12 years of mortgage free finances to prepare (save/invest/otherwise) a college fund, vs relying on long term exposure to the markets to build those funds. You say you 'got lucky' in the markets, but I can't be guaranteed that I will! On the flip side, paying down the mortgage is a guaranteed tax-free 3.5% return, making it appealing to me - though I haven't thoroughly looked into other tax implications as stated above. I'll have to do that.
 
Purchased my current house in 2001. Refi-ed into one of those evil adjustable-rate mortgages from Countrywide in 2003, right before my job went to India and I was unemployed/underemployed for 2 years. Best decision I ever stumbled into, seriously. My interest rate was well below what my old, fixed-rate mortgage would have been.

Initial plans were to pay off the house in 10 years, but the aforementioned job-loss/minimum-wage job plus another couple of FMLA absences due to family health issues pushed me behind about 3 years. Final check went to the lender in October.

Now, living in Illinois, my monthly house payment was 10-12% P/I/Insurance and the rest went to the wonderful property taxes I have to pay so in reality, I have to make sure to put aside for taxes each month what an entire house payment would cost me somewhere else. I don't know that there's a financial benefit but it is nice to know that I don't have to send that check in monthly anymore, and because my property taxes are insane, my not paying interest to the bank doesnn't affect my ability to itemize on my tax return.
 
Pay off the mortgage. All the rest is shuffling numbers to "hope" that x gains more interest than y and so on.

Nobody can tell me that having a house paid off is the "wrong choice". There isnt more "earth" being made so property isnt getting cheaper with 7Billion of us. I can't comment on how "huge" a tax break you get by draging out a mortgage to term. I know that you do end up paying more interest.

Pay it off, its yours and yours only. If hard times hit, you already have reserves as you described. You've got retirement accounts. You are in fine shape. You "bought a house" to ..... BUY a house. You sound responsible enough that the house payment you recoup won't disappear into luxuries.

There's one quote that all the skimming "Slick Rick" warm n fuzzy investor commercials want you to forget....

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

It seems to me that you have a grasp on that.
 
Savings and inheritance allowed me to pay off our mortgage 10 years ago. Lovin' it! We no longer could itemize so there was no tax advantage, and as you say savings interest is a joke these days. I say pay it down ASAP!

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Personally, I think you might want to look at your low interest mortgage rate as an on-going investment that's part of your portfolio. I'd rather "modify" it than get rid of it in terms of ( for example ) using some of the cash you've accumulated to make a principal-only payment..similar to what you're already doing. You've obviously done the calculations but you could see what that would do with applying less than the 50K you're referencing to that purpose. I'd rather do something that might kick ahead the payoff date while also leaving me x dollars for other investments ( including cash ). To the degree that you'll be "house rich" versus "cash poor" would color my perspective.

It sounds like you've already accumulated a sizable emergency fund so IMO I think I'd dollar cost average each month into appropriate investment vehicles vs. increasing the automatic payments to payoff the mortgage in that short time frame. As mentioned, you'd have to research your tax implications and how you see your circumstance in the next 5-10 years.
 
first, nice job (for both of you at so young age)

now you being insider in construction, can you invest in rentals/flipping?
how does your local market (rentals/construction/renovations) looks?

are you afraid of the 3Ts? (Tenants/Toilets/Trouble)

P.S. there are a few guys here who opened a few threads with great deal of info about investing safely long-term

i would use the google search feature: "what you search" site:bobistheoilguy.com
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
first, nice job (for both of you at so young age)

now you being insider in construction, can you invest in rentals/flipping?
how does your local market (rentals/construction/renovations) looks?

are you afraid of the 3Ts? (Tenants/Toilets/Trouble)



Thanks.

I'm not a building construction inspector - but do road/highway, sewer, and water.

BUT, funny you mention this topic - I was THIS close to purchasing a rental back in April. Was all pre-approved, crunched the numbers, felt reasonably comfortable - but my wife wasn't. The 3 T's are certainly a lot of time investment, and she wasn't OK with that part of it.

And honestly, as my daughter continues to grow and now with another on the way, I'm sort of glad she said something. I really enjoy spending time with my daughter, and I think I'd regret sacrificing my time with her on some dumpy fixer-upper. I won't get this time with her back, you know?

That said, I WILL be returning to idea at some point - perhaps when they both start school. [censored], now that we are talking about this, I suppose a paid-off primary residence would certainly be of benefit when I start looking at rentals...

EDIT: wow, we censor ' h3ll' here?
 
If you're worried about dumping the money in the market because everyone thinks it's overpriced, you should just do automatic monthly investments on a fixed date. Say put the $300 in automatically instead of paying down the mortgage. At one point the market was up 6% since the election. So when the market is high, you buy less shares and when it's low, you buy more. I'd suggest an index fund to start. There are many funds out there that have 10 year returns of 7-8% and they'd be in the 11-12% range with just a 5 year return as that excludes the dump the market took in 2008.
 
Congratulations. Not many folks have the self discipline that you and your wife have. It's something that will pay off for you in a very big way in the future.

My wife and I, in our 45 (or so) years of owning 3 different homes only paid on a mortgage 8 years. The rest of the time we were mortgage and debt free. It's a fantastic feeling when your entire paycheck goes to you rather than debt, and when done wisely you can set yourself up for a great retirement, even while you're saving for kids education and enjoying life.

In my opinion, I would pay off the mortgage, and then work on diversifying your investments. In addition to adding the maximum to your pension plans, I would sit down with a financial advisor that you trust and map out what you want to do in the future. Ours is the Wealth Enhancement Group, and their advice and roundtable service has netted us far more return than we could have on our own. A good financial team will question you about your goals, and at least annually review those goals with you to update your plan if things have changed. A good financial team can also guide you on paying off the mortgage; depending upon your circumstances it may make more financial sense to keep it. They'll get an overall view of your finances and help you make a decision far better than an oil discussion forum.

A good financial advisor will set up "buckets" for your investments; short term, long term, college funds, etc. Don't be afraid of the market, especially long term. It's one of the best investments out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
If you're worried about dumping the money in the market because everyone thinks it's overpriced, you should just do automatic monthly investments on a fixed date. Say put the $300 in automatically instead of paying down the mortgage. At one point the market was up 6% since the election. So when the market is high, you buy less shares and when it's low, you buy more. I'd suggest an index fund to start. There are many funds out there that have 10 year returns of 7-8% and they'd be in the 11-12% range with just a 5 year return as that excludes the dump the market took in 2008.


I agree, a million dollar portfolio is not that difficult over a 25 years period.

They should focus on paying off the house, then both max out all retirement contributions / college fund for kids.
 
Pay off the mortgage.

You can crunch the numbers all you want - but having less debt is a good idea.

Look at it this way - THE MORTGAGE COMPANY thinks that your loan is a good investment......... and I certainly would be happy to get that kind of (virtually guaranteed) interest.
 
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