Student loans leave crushing debt burden

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Folks, you are wrong if you believe that state universities and community colleges are cheaper. If a student can get into the top schools they will end up paying a lot less. Studies show that the most expensive places also give the most money. For example, I think every Ivy League school is basically free if your family income is below about $60,000. A lot of second-tier colleges also offer much more grant money than state schools. It pays to try to get into the best school you are qualified for, not to mention that it also pays off over the course of your life in increased income every year. Don't just look at the upfront price--look at what the financial aid package is.
YMMV.

My sister went into Pharmacy, and from what I understand, there are (or at least were at the time), 2 schools per state, one public and one private, that awarded Pharmacy degrees. In Indiana, those schools were Purdue and Butler. My sister graduated in the top 10 of her HS class, took all the advanced courses and got excellent grades in them, and all Butler could find for her was a $500 scholarship that they couldn't even guarantee would be extended past the first year. Their tuition cost double what Purdue's cost, so the decision was a no-brainer.

 

[CivicFan]

The reason the state schools are cheaper is because they are subsidized by the population of that state.

 

[Kestas]

A lot of good posts above. This is a problem that's been simmering for a while. It's probably another bubble that is ready to burst.

With all the grants and monies being willed by wealthy people, I'm surprised that this continues to be a problem.

At the risk of getting heat from the "entitlement" thinking crowd, I believe it may be a good thing that support from government is declining. Now the public can decide whether education beyond high school is worth it. Conversely, once the pool of university-educated kids for menial jobs dries up, companies will turn to high school graduates for their workforce, just like before.

That said, I still believe a poor kid should have a chance at higher education if his grades and skills show promise. This should be the American Way, and not a nation run by dumb rich kids.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: volvomix
If you don't have the money don't go to college.

Community college for two years, state school for the rest.

If you must go at all.

I hear you and understand what you are trying to say but its a blanket statement. I didn't have the money to go to college and neither did my parents to send me to one so I decided to borrow money mostly from Sallie Mae. After 7 years and $140,000 dollars in debt later, I graduated and this was 15 years ago. Took me 10 years to pay it off but I would do it again in a heartbeat. Like others have said, be smart about what you are majoring in and you will be fine. I work with a technician who went to college and graduated with a fine arts degree and could not find a job in her field so here she is making $12 working with me and not using her college degree. She is even struggling to pay her student loans as well.

 

[bullwinkle]

This is exactly what I've been going through with my youngest son, who graduates this coming June-some of his friends are going out-of-state to schools that cost in excess of $30K/year with room & board-he's staying in town & starting @ a 2 year community college-then he can transfer to a 4 year school if he wants to-at under $5K per year!

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Folks, you are wrong if you believe that state universities and community colleges are cheaper. If a student can get into the top schools they will end up paying a lot less.

While your scenario may apply 5% of the time. I can categorically say in Pa., that PSU is much cheaper than the Bucknells, Susquehannas, and any other Private Pa. school. PSU branch Campuses and community campuses are even cheaper.

My daughter who was 4th in her class and actually had a 4.0 average in HS got $1500 a year at Messiah College. She transferred to a PSU/Branch campus affiliated with Pottsville Hospital and her tuition was 25% of Messiah.

 

[CivicFan]

You need to take the other side of the equation into account as well. Ultimately, education is about the quality of life (doing what you want and like to do) and also of future earnings (making sure that you and your family have financial security).

I do not have the hard number handy but it is the conventional wisdom that the more expensive school grads have the opportunity to land higher paying jobs. For example, in Indiana, a Notre Dame grad will have the opportunity to work in an investment bank in New York while a Purdue grad with the same degree and same academic performance will not be considered for it (the resume will be shredded without being read).

 

[AuthorEditor]

I recently went to a college financing seminar and one of the examples compared actual financial aid packages for a student between a good state school and a ritzy private college nearby. The total bill for the state school (including room and board + fees, books, etc.) was around $17K and the total fees for the private school were I think $53K, but the actual amount paid by the family was less at the private school. I believe their family income was around $70K. The big difference was the private school offered $38K in aid! Of course this varies hugely depending on what two schools you are comparing, but I still say don't give up on the apparently expensive school until you compare financial aid packages.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
You need to take the other side of the equation into account as well. Ultimately, education is about the quality of life (doing what you want and like to do) and also of future earnings (making sure that you and your family have financial security).

I do not have the hard number handy but it is the conventional wisdom that the more expensive school grads have the opportunity to land higher paying jobs. For example, in Indiana, a Notre Dame grad will have the opportunity to work in an investment bank in New York while a Purdue grad with the same degree and same academic performance will not be considered for it (the resume will be shredded without being read).


I have heard this happen numerous times. This is an example of classist society. Basically the rich keep the rich and even if someone from a less prestigious life/educational background who accomplished just as much is not given a chance.

People who goto Harvard get picked over people going to local State Universities because of the name. Granted it sometimes works out in the lower educated persons favor but more often than not its the other way.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Anies
This is an example of classist society. Basically the rich keep the rich and even if someone from a less prestigious life/educational background who accomplished just as much is not given a chance.

People who goto Harvard get picked over people going to local State Universities because of the name. Granted it sometimes works out in the lower educated persons favor but more often than not its the other way.


You are right, I don't like it either, but that's the reality.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Anies

People who goto Harvard get picked over people going to local State Universities because of the name. Granted it sometimes works out in the lower educated persons favor but more often than not its the other way.

Maybe in Law. But for the most part State Universities have the best Engineering Programs.. Look at the Top Engineering and Masters Engineering Programs. The Big Ten Universities are all in the upper 100.

.Yea there is CalTech and MIT. But in Engineering you will not be disadvantaged by going to a State university....True story.

 

[Audi Junkie]

The Big Lie is that, "you can be anything you want to be".

My cuz is a grade school catholic school teacher. Her kids are clueless. One wanted to be an astronaut as late as 12th grade. He can't even read the guages on his car, and has zero technical skills. Those trips to Disneyland really messed him up. This morphed into an airline pilot, a not-good job. His Disney impression of the world meant he only saw things superfically...a pilot was the tanned guy in a uniform with a nice smile who cut in line at the airport and wayved at everybody, not the guy who reads the guages and knows how to do tech stuff like transfer fuel if there was a leak.... He then wanted to be a geologist at the south pole. I cautioned him that he needed to be able to do the crystal math and chemistry...he scoffed. I explained that energy exploration was the only real world application of geology. He scoffed. This was 5 years ago, now we are in a huge energy boom in natural gas in PA, the Marcellus shale!!! He teaches French.

The other boy went to trade school for "building". $20k later the economy in the biggest building slump ever. All I heard from the family is how such and such a bigshot builder hires the grads from that school, starting them at $60k. All this was just idol worship of the "big shot". I bet the guy is bankrupt now. The kid is now in business school for $$$, afaik, there are a lot of people w/business skills that are unemployed. He wants to "have his own business", just what the world needs, another pick-up truck w/a ladder on top. He's a 24 years old college junior. He sharply declined the state job my wife found him as a building code trainee at $40k, plus benefits.

The lil sister does nothing except play sports...nothing. She'll spend her whole life looking to get graded and/or constantly crunching stats from sports. "This one won this many times and the other this many." Yeah, that's brilliant. All these kids had great potential, but the idea they could just "be anything" failed them miserably.

 

[javacontour]

ROTC paid most of my tab. I had to pay for my 9th semester, and all of my living expenses. But I had a job, I double majored (Software Engineering AND Electrical Engineering) and had little debt when I left school and was commissioned active duty Army.

I graduated from Washington University in STL, and even in the 1980's it was pretty pricey.

It can be done, but folks might want to look at military service. ROTC, the GI bill. My neighbor got his BA and MA while in the Air Force and went from enlisted to officer all while serving active duty.

He'll probably pin on Captain when he gets back from his deployment, so he gets the O3-E paygrade, plus the military benefits.

If you don't have the cash, military service is a great way to earn money if not your entire education.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: ZZman

But much of the blame can go towards the students themselves who chose to not go to a community college first or live at home while going to school. Some also chose very expensive colleges when a much cheaper college would do.



+1 I had to pay my way and I graduated without much debt accumulated. I chose to go to a community college and then to the local state run school and got 2 degrees while I was there. I think I owed around $2,000 when I graduated.

College students are naive to think that the diploma they paid $10-20 grand (or more) per year is more important (or prestigious) need a reality check. It isn't worth the cost.


I have 2 undergraduate degrees and a Masters with no debt. My wife has no school debt and undegraduate degree from a private school. We worked our way thru college.
It can be done. I expect my son to do it.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Maybe it's time to switch to the European model of free education for everyone. It will eliminate OP's issue with debt and move the country forward to make us more competitive with the emerging economic competition.


It's 'free' don't think so. The students are protesting in London because the gov wants to move to the American model.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Folks, you are wrong if you believe that state universities and community colleges are cheaper. If a student can get into the top schools they will end up paying a lot less. Studies show that the most expensive places also give the most money. For example, I think every Ivy League school is basically free if your family income is below about $60,000. A lot of second-tier colleges also offer much more grant money than state schools. It pays to try to get into the best school you are qualified for, not to mention that it also pays off over the course of your life in increased income every year. Don't just look at the upfront price--look at what the financial aid package is.


Family income is below $60k?!? Sorry but that is a worthlessly low number these days.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Anies

People who goto Harvard get picked over people going to local State Universities because of the name. Granted it sometimes works out in the lower educated persons favor but more often than not its the other way.

Maybe in Law. But for the most part State Universities have the best Engineering Programs.. Look at the Top Engineering and Masters Engineering Programs. The Big Ten Universities are all in the upper 100.

.Yea there is CalTech and MIT. But in Engineering you will not be disadvantaged by going to a State university....True story.


Agree. Plus what ive found is that in most any job area, the big name school is a draw for the FIRST job... Anything past a few years experience rests more on the person's capabilities. There are lots of book smart people from fancy name schools who do not excel.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
I recently went to a college financing seminar and one of the examples compared actual financial aid packages for a student between a good state school and a ritzy private college nearby. The total bill for the state school (including room and board + fees, books, etc.) was around $17K and the total fees for the private school were I think $53K, but the actual amount paid by the family was less at the private school. I believe their family income was around $70K. The big difference was the private school offered $38K in aid! Of course this varies hugely depending on what two schools you are comparing, but I still say don't give up on the apparently expensive school until you compare financial aid packages.


I dislike that too. Schools should not provide aid to others based upon their financial status. Color, race, finances are all irrelevant. While nobody wants to see a dummy who has the ability to pay get in at someone else's expense, quotas should not be subsidized just for the sake of quotas. The best and brightest should be pulled in, and if they are of a high enough percentile to justify entry, maybe they should get a scholarship (for scholarly reasons ONLY). The rest should still be loans of a reasonable amount. Im not a fan of handouts.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
ROTC paid most of my tab. I had to pay for my 9th semester, and all of my living expenses. But I had a job, I double majored (Software Engineering AND Electrical Engineering) and had little debt when I left school and was commissioned active duty Army.

I graduated from Washington University in STL, and even in the 1980's it was pretty pricey.

It can be done, but folks might want to look at military service. ROTC, the GI bill. My neighbor got his BA and MA while in the Air Force and went from enlisted to officer all while serving active duty.

He'll probably pin on Captain when he gets back from his deployment, so he gets the O3-E paygrade, plus the military benefits.

If you don't have the cash, military service is a great way to earn money if not your entire education.



The problem here is that Military Service is not the answer. Many people do not want to be part of it, or believe in it or care for it(as opinion always is).

The flip side to this is if you have everyone join the military then the benefits will be lessened as the payout is greater. Look at the two biggest majors in education today.

Nursing and Business. Both of these Majors have lulls and peaks in job pay/needs. In the mid 2000 craze business was on the boom because it was "in". Now its a lull and its worth squat. Nursing is on the rise because of health care and reform etc and everyone is flocking to that.

Job satisfaction means nothing as greed has driven everything, even the choices we make for education and majors. School is and always has been a business and they will fine ways to make you think its necessary.

 

[saberz]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
I recently went to a college financing seminar and one of the examples compared actual financial aid packages for a student between a good state school and a ritzy private college nearby. The total bill for the state school (including room and board + fees, books, etc.) was around $17K and the total fees for the private school were I think $53K, but the actual amount paid by the family was less at the private school. I believe their family income was around $70K. The big difference was the private school offered $38K in aid! Of course this varies hugely depending on what two schools you are comparing, but I still say don't give up on the apparently expensive school until you compare financial aid packages.


I dislike that too. Schools should not provide aid to others based upon their financial status. Color, race, finances are all irrelevant. While nobody wants to see a dummy who has the ability to pay get in at someone else's expense, quotas should not be subsidized just for the sake of quotas. The best and brightest should be pulled in, and if they are of a high enough percentile to justify entry, maybe they should get a scholarship (for scholarly reasons ONLY). The rest should still be loans of a reasonable amount. Im not a fan of handouts.


I agree with you that racial/cultural backgrounds should mean NOTHING when it comes to assistance and financial aid. HECK they even make it easier for minorities to get into some universities. Meaning they have stricter requirements for non-minorities and this is widely known.

Universities were originally meant for those who wanted to further explore and understand the subjects of interest. The best of the best originally went to these places of higher education and were our pioneers. Slowly this turned into "everyone can goto college/university", everyone deserves to go and get higher learning. Now our system has become saturated with an abundance of useless BA's all to entice enrollee's.

Perhaps we should follow Japan and their limited enrollee program for universities.