Street/Track Corvette LS7 - New Motor !

[NewC6]

Originally Posted By: hounddog
Its not a 'Internet' thing. I've read about three in the last few months. NEW POSTS on the Corvette forum about another LS7 bites the dust. All stock. Mileages from mid 30,000 to mid 80,000. There was no posts commenting about surprise to broken valves,busted pistons and cylinder wall damage.


Gotta agree with hounddog. I am also on the corvetteforum and the valve issue is becoming, while not epidemic, a valid concern and the VAST majority are on bone stock engines.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Hey guys I appreciate the discussion on the heads/valve train/etc but this can be viewed on the Corvette Forum.

I specifically want some help in determining which oil I should run in this NEW STOCK LS7 ......... Thanks !!

DH


It's doubtful the problem can be solved with oil. You could always just try an oil with a lot more ZDP.

 

[rob6773]

A really good oil like redline does a lot more for the rest of the motor than the valves. I'm assuming the LS7 already has a nice oil cooler being a dry-sump set-up.
A little off topic- Years ago when Rusty Wallace went on an awesome winning streak it was because his team invented an oil mist injector at the valve covers to spray the rockers with oil. In several weeks every team copied the set-up.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Buster

I wish just an oil change could fix the issue. But I do know that mine and most that have lost their LS7 were running Mobil1 5w30. I just want to eliminate the oil as the source or a contributing source of the problem.

I am still torn between Mobil1 0w40 and Redline or Amsoil 5w30 !!

DH

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Buster

I wish just an oil change could fix the issue. But I do know that mine and most that have lost their LS7 were running Mobil1 5w30. I just want to eliminate the oil as the source or a contributing source of the problem.

I am still torn between Mobil1 0w40 and Redline or Amsoil 5w30 !!

DH


FWIW: M1 5w30 is the factory oil and recommended oil by GM for the application. It then goes without saying that the vast majority of these cars are going to use that oil. Subsequently, most of them experiencing this failure are going to have that oil in them.

Same in the BMW circles with the "coveted" Castrol TWS 10w60. Most of the engines that have had rod bearing failures have had TWS in them. However, it is also the most commonly used oil in the cars, so that makes sense

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Its my DD and therefore gets at least 2 cold starts per day. And according to some that can cause more wear than track use !!


KUDOS to you, as you're the very FIRST person I've ever heard of daily driving a Z06!

I would do exactly the same (or with a ZR1, C6RS, Z06 Carbon/100th Anniversary) if I were a bizillionaire.

I would use Red Line 0W-40 (or the same mix of that and their 0W-30 I use in sig), get a great oil cooler, switch to an ARE/Cartek/some aftermarket dry sump system (if you can afford such), and if you must remain Republik of Cali, letter-of-the-law legal, and are worried about killing the catcons, get, or have someone make up for you 304 stainless "test pipes"/down pipes to take the place of the converters (BOLT-IN) when you open track this beast.

Is the replacement engine going to get the rest of your 100K mile/5 year drivetrain warranty (and will it have the late '08 and up fix/upgrade to the problems)??

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Actually HDD has a decent amount of ester and every bit as shear stable as Redline 5W-30.


What about it's soluble moly (or substitute for this, i.e.; boron, antimony, etc.) content??

I am asking seriously, and without ANY animus, or sarcasm as I want to know.

As you can see by my sig I am NOT anti-Amsoil AT ALL, and actually used to use HDD in the past.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Regarding Redline:
Is it true that one of their oils like a 0w40 will be more stable becuase it does not have the package necessary to allow other oils to have this viscosity spread ??


Their 0W-xx oils (with the exception of their 0W-20, which you are not concerned with) have some very high grade viscosity index improvers (VIIs, the "package" of which you speak), the 0W-30 less than the 0W-40.
It is almost impossible to make even a super high quality ester blend basestock oil with these viscosity spreads without using some VIIs (although I know of one company that has already developed a 0W-30 SANS VIIs, and they are trying to produce a 0W-40 like this as well, but it is proving VERY difficult!!).

Regardless, the Red Line 0w-xxes have proven to be VERY shear stable, despite the added VIIs in much open track use.

 

[Pablo]

HDD doesn't have nor need Mo, B, or Sb. I know that may be a hard sell for some, but no matter what the Jr. Chemist BITOG has created in some, these additives aren't some kind of miracle protectant. HDD has a ton of Ca and high ZDDP. And it just plain works, mainly because it doesn't shear.

Good question - no need to ask that way. I know when people are being cool.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Its my DD and therefore gets at least 2 cold starts per day. And according to some that can cause more wear than track use !!


KUDOS to you, as you're the very FIRST person I've ever heard of daily driving a Z06!

I would do exactly the same (or with a ZR1, C6RS, Z06 Carbon/100th Anniversary) if I were a bizillionaire.

I would use Red Line 0W-40 (or the same mix of that and their 0W-30 I use in sig), get a great oil cooler, switch to an ARE/Cartek/some aftermarket dry sump system (if you can afford such), and if you must remain Republik of Cali, letter-of-the-law legal, and are worried about killing the catcons, get, or have someone make up for you 304 stainless "test pipes"/down pipes to take the place of the converters (BOLT-IN) when you open track this beast.

Is the replacement engine going to get the rest of your 100K mile/5 year drivetrain warranty (and will it have the late '08 and up fix/upgrade to the problems)??


Thanks, I love driving my car and look forward to my drive to work and back every day. 87K miles and it is as much fun now as the first day. Actually more fun as I now know how to drive this thing!!

I have a larger external sump tank...11.5 qt capacity. Can't afford the ARE upgrades.

The new engine will not be warranteed. It is a one time good will replacement. But my dealer said if it failed in short order they would have to do something.

I'm not sure about taking the cats out. This was recommended by Sidney also. So I guess running the Redline is going to cause them to fail for sure???

I need some one to tell my why Redline is better than Mobil1 0w40. Is it becuase its an esther? Obviously more ZDDP. And the Moly is super high compared to other oils.

DH

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
HDD doesn't have nor need Mo, B, or Sb. I know that may be a hard sell for some, but no matter what the Jr. Chemist BITOG has created in some, these additives aren't some kind of miracle protectant. HDD has a ton of Ca and high ZDDP. And it just plain works, mainly because it doesn't shear.

Good question - no need to ask that way. I know when people are being cool.


Sorry, what does HDD stand for??

DH

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie


Sorry, what does HDD stand for??

DH


All Amsoil products have 3 and 4 letter/digit product codes:

Amsoil HDD - HD Engine Oil - 5W-30

BITOG Acronyms

 

[buster]

M1 0W40 gets my vote. HM 5w30 would work.

Amsoil HDD used to be one of their best oils using Amatuzio's best package. LOL

It is a diesel oil though and the friction modification might not be as ideal as it could be.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
HDD doesn't have nor need Mo, B, or Sb.


HDD, IMO, simply isn't formulated for the lowest COF, as it is primarily a diesel oil and not a performance oil.

 

[Ben99GT]

buster beat me to it

And a 50/50 mix of Red Line 0W-30/0W-40 gets my vote.

 

[CATERHAM]

HDD has viscosity spec's similar to GC so I would prefer GC, but since M1 0W-40 is lighter on start-up to GC but with a higher HTHSV I would also go with M1 0W-40.

 

[CATERHAM]

If you don't mind the higher cost of RL, the 0W-30 and 0W-40 blend is about as good as it is going to get.

A cheaper alternative is still M1 0W-40 and if you want something a bit lighter simply substitute a quart of M1 0W-20 (or better still the EOM made Toyota 0W-20) and that will drop the HTHSV to that of the RL 50/50 blend.

If you're okay with blends, that opens the door to fine tuning your oil viscosity based on oil pressure which ia what I do. If you choose M1 0W-40, I'd use it straight initially leaving room in the sump to add a quart of top up oil. If your OP is still higher than necessary with the oil as hot as it ever gets then add a quart of 0W-20. If the OP is lower than you would like add a quart of M1 0W-50 racing oil, or 5W-50 or 15W-50. If the OP is just where you want it just top up with another quart of 0W-40.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
I'm not sure about taking the cats out. This was recommended by Sidney also. So I guess running the Redline is going to cause them to fail for sure???

I need some one to tell my why Redline is better than Mobil1 0w40. Is it becuase its an esther? Obviously more ZDDP. And the Moly is super high compared to other oils.DH


I know what you mean by the "looking forward to the drive every day", as I feel the same way about my 'lowly' (but much modded for handling) f body.

Life is just a little too short to "save" any car for picture perfect weather by relegating it to 'garage queen' status.
I even put four good winter tires (mounted on the stock alloys) on mine and drive it when the white stuff is on the ground, something you basically do not have to worry about.

I use Red Line, and open track my car ~4 times a year, drive it VERY hard on deserted roads very late at night (after complete warmup, of course), and use it daily (albeit not as many daily miles as you), and I still have the OEM style cats on the car.
I replaced the stock catcons NOT because they were clogged, or not functioning, or setting SES lights/codes, but because I wanted at least slightly better flowing exhaust (larger catcon into/out of pipes and internals than stock) without going to illegal 200 cell, metal matrix catcons, at which point one may as well go to long tube headers with MM catcons right at the collector.
Eventually, I will go to 304 stainless 'shortie' headers (with ALL of the OEM emissions hookups intact) into the stock replacement, 49 state, Magnaflow catcons.

So, NO, using Red Line oils will NOT "guarantee" that your catcons "must" fail!

Yes, basically the only things that make Red Line "better than" (if one MUST use that terminology) M1 0W-40 are; possibly (NO ONE knows for sure!

) a higher group 5 content, possibly "better" quality VIIs to get the viscosity spread, and definitely a 'stouter' add pack (but NOT by leaps and bounds, except for the soluble moly content).
Oh, and YES CATERHAM, the RL 0W-40 has a higher VI than the Mobil 1 0W-40.

 

[Ben99GT]

I've been running Red Line for a couple years and somewhere around 40,000 miles now, my stock 10 year old 180,000 miles cats are just fine.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Pablo
HDD doesn't have nor need Mo, B, or Sb.


HDD, IMO, simply isn't formulated for the lowest COF, as it is primarily a diesel oil and not a performance oil.


I know what you are saying in theory. But it's odd that all the biker guys running HDEO's never notice the lack of FM's, with much smaller engine and more buttfeel. I doubt there will be any reduction in performance. I mean look at how most modern PCMO's gain MPG - not by adding FM's, more by shearing and specifying low viscosities to start with.