Straight 30 or 15W40 for hard use air cooled small engine?

[SubieRubyRoo]

I thinks it's because it provides good protection in a wide range of temps . Whereas a thicker oil is better in hot temps and a thinner oil is better in cold temps

As long as MOFT that prevents metal-on-metal contact is maintained, it doesn’t matter what grade it is. I use a PAO-based 5w40 in my generator so i am comfortable that it covers the entire ambient and operational temperature ranges. However, if a 20 grade maintained the minimum MOFT at operating temps, there would be zero benefit to running a 40, or any other heavier grade. I don’t have the time, money, or effort to find out if that is the case, so I err on the side of caution.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

What does every one think about doing a franken mix in a pressure washer? I am considering Amsoil 5 w 30 with Mobil Delo 15 w 40 full syn? I am also considering topping off my Generac standby Generator with the 15 w 40 . It has 5w 20 in it from the dealer. I live in SC and it gets pretty hot here. I just don't trust 5w 20 in the 90+degree heat. (Or the 5w 30 either for the pressure washer.) Or am I overthinking?

5w30 + 15w40 = 15w30
5w20 + 15w40 = 15w30

Winter ratings always default to the worst number when mixing. Operating viscosity is a simple proportion based on the operating temp viscosities times the mix % of each oil. Just pick the correct grade, don’t mix winter grades or brands. It’s the safest way.

 

[fantastic]

Probably not without an oil filter.

My uoa of 64 hours on my onan looked just fine and could've went longer. Matter of fact the manual says 150 hours. Since I use multi-grade it would burn enough for me to want to change it before then though. Has no filter

 

[Astro_Guy]

Probably not without an oil filter.

Okay - but I have a number of owner's manuals that suggest 50-100 hour OCIs without an oil filter. Granted I would not do that on the initial change. After that it seems appropriate if running constantly throughout the OCI. There are no warming and coolig cycles to contend with, no water or other condensation within the oil, etc.

 

[oil pan 4]

IMHO ---

I think the problem is running 5W30 synthetic for days straight between changes. You have people that look at the owners manual - and it says every 100 or 200 hours between oil changes. But there is many times an * and down below in the fine print it says -

* Change oil every 25 or 50 hours under severe conditions like in hot temps or under continuous hard use.

After two or three days straight use the 5W30 has broken down and no longer provides adequate protection - and then bad things happen.

You also need to recognize - some people think a 5,000 watt generator can run everything at the same time because the load is only 4,750 watts -

Combine both of these together and it can cause catastrophic failure.


I change the oil everyday and rarely run over 50% load at anytime except maybe starting up something like an AC unit or HVAC blower motor. It takes such minor effort to turn something like the HVAC blower off while I make coffee or run the microwave. I think it not only saves a lot of gas but also wear and tear on my generator.

YMMV

If people read the manual they would find most generators are only rated to run at around half their "running watts" for continuous use and operate at "running watts" for no more than a few minutes at a time.

 

[fantastic]

Found it. No oil filter & a PC too.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...r-64-hours-399-total-w-particle-count.374430/

 

[oil pan 4]

Okay - but I have a number of owner's manuals that suggest 50-100 hour OCIs without an oil filter. Granted I would not do that on the initial change. After that it seems appropriate if running constantly throughout the OCI. There are no warming and coolig cycles to contend with, no water or other condensation within the oil, etc.

A hard running air cooled engine will trash conventional oil by 50 hours.

 

[Jim K]

The 15w-40 would be my choice .

 

[oil pan 4]

The 15w-40 would be my choice .

If it gets cold, well below freezing and you have a pull start you can forget about starting it with 15w-40 in the sump.

 

[tiger862]

IMHO ---

I think the problem is running 5W30 synthetic for days straight between changes. You have people that look at the owners manual - and it says every 100 or 200 hours between oil changes. But there is many times an * and down below in the fine print it says -

* Change oil every 25 or 50 hours under severe conditions like in hot temps or under continuous hard use.

After two or three days straight use the 5W30 has broken down and no longer provides adequate protection - and then bad things happen.

You also need to recognize - some people think a 5,000 watt generator can run everything at the same time because the load is only 4,750 watts -

Combine both of these together and it can cause catastrophic failure.


I change the oil everyday and rarely run over 50% load at anytime except maybe starting up something like an AC unit or HVAC blower motor. It takes such minor effort to turn something like the HVAC blower off while I make coffee or run the microwave. I think it not only saves a lot of gas but also wear and tear on my generator.

YMMV

My generator has one oil change in 15 years until I changed it 2 years ago. My John Deere gets once a year or 100 hours. Push mower gets every 2 years and tiller every year. One John Deere that I replaced is 45 hours in 2 years so I will go another and other one is 60 hours at this time which I will change around 1 year mark, so it could have 75 hours on it. Pressure washer will be 2 years so it's time. Like I said oil was never the cause of breakdown. Would I do it with lawn mower conventional oil? No. Synthetic oil is built better for hotter temps. Run all vehicles that I take care of on once a year or 10k.

 

[Tyro_2004_2004]

What a Great Oil Thread! I’m learning a lot about what Oil to use. I use 5w40 Synthetic in my 10HP Snowblower and 5w30 in my Whites LawnMower. I live in Green Bay WI., very cold here right now. My Snowblower did not want to start at 4 Degrees today…

Question to the old guys: what’s the point of non-detergent oil for small engines? Why would you run that?

 

[oil pan 4]

What a Great Oil Thread! I’m learning a lot about what Oil to use. I use 5w40 Synthetic in my 10HP Snowblower and 5w30 in my Whites LawnMower. I live in Green Bay WI., very cold here right now. My Snowblower did not want to start at 4 Degrees today…

Question to the old guys: what’s the point of non-detergent oil for small engines? Why would you run that?

ND oil is supposed to allow the dirt, soot and combustion particles to stick together get big and then settle out in-between engine runs.
Detergent disputants keep the dirt, soot/other particles from sticking together and it makes water stay in suspension with the oil so it gets burned off when the engine gets up to operating temperature.
Detergent also makes up part of your total base number which keeps the oil from turning corrosive.
Pretty much everyone runs detergent oil in their small engines and just changes it occasionally. The most likely results of running ND oil in an engine is sludge build up.

Only place you really see ND oil is in air compressors since there's no combustion byproducts to turn the oil acidic and any water that gets in the oil will never burn off because most compressors never get that hot so the water can just stay on the bottom of the sump under the oil.
Plus the detergent can build up on reed valves causing loss of compression, supposedly.

 

[Tyro_2004_2004]

ND oil is supposed to allow the dirt, soot and combustion particles to stick together get big and then settle out in-between engine runs.
Detergent disputants keep the dirt, soot/other particles from sticking together and it makes water stay in suspension with the oil so it gets burned off when the engine gets up to operating temperature.
Detergent also makes up part of your total base number which keeps the oil from turning corrosive.
Pretty much everyone runs detergent oil in their small engines and just changes it occasionally. The most likely results of running ND oil in an engine is sludge build up.

Only place you really see ND oil is in air compressors since there's no combustion byproducts to turn the oil acidic and any water that gets in the oil will never burn off because most compressors never get that hot so the water can just stay on the bottom of the sump under the oil.
Plus the detergent can build up on reed valves causing loss of compression, supposedly.

Thank you So Much! So there are Pros for ND. Longer OCI and for certain applications but pretty limited now a days. I remember my father using ND in all his small engines but never asked Why…… Thank you

 

[oil pan 4]

Thank you So Much! So there are Pros for ND. Longer OCI and for certain applications but pretty limited now a days. I remember my father using ND in all his small engines but never asked Why…… Thank you

Yeah it's like pick the battle you want.
With a small engine and ND oil hopefully all the sludge collects harmlessly on the bottom of the sump and not all over the inside of the engine.
With detergent oil mos of the dirt stays in suspension with the oil and most of it gets flushed out when the oil gets changed.
In more recent times manufacturers seem to be favoring detergent oils.

When I rebuilt my nearly 20 year old Honda gx390 that had been used to power an air compressor for a long time, then I turned it into a stump grinder and now a pressure washer. When I rebuilt it the inside was as clean as a watch, just a little bit of metal powder and gunk had collected in the bottom of the sump.
It has been running detergent oil for the nearly 10 years I had it.

 

[Tyro_2004_2004]

With a small engine and ND oil hopefully all the sludge collects harmlessly on the bottom of the sump and not all over the inside of the engine.
With detergent oil mos of the dirt stays in suspension with the oil and most of it gets flushed out when the oil gets changed.
In more recent times manufacturers seem to be favoring detergent oils.

When I rebuilt my nearly 20 year old Honda gx390 that had been used to power an air compressor for a long time, then I turned it into a stump grinder and now a pressure washer. When I rebuilt it the inside was as clean as a watch, just a little bit of metal powder and gunk had collected in the bottom of the sump.
It has been running detergent oil for the nearly 10 years I had it.

the ND is more interesting then I thought it was going to be. Thanks too you man. I Appreciate it! What’s your Oil Suggestion for my
White MTD LawnCycler LC210 Briggs & Stratton 6HP Quantum I/C (Very Little Info on this Motor)
&
MTD SnowFlite 10/33 Tecumseh 10HP HM100?

 

[oil pan 4]

the ND is more interesting then I thought it was going to be. Thanks too you man. I Appreciate it! What’s your Oil Suggestion for my
White MTD LawnCycler LC210 Briggs & Stratton 6HP Quantum I/C (Very Little Info on this Motor)
&
MTD SnowFlite 10/33 Tecumseh 10HP HM100?

The usual, an sj or sh rated multi weight "lawn mower" or "power equipment" oil.
Depending how hard your beat your mower. If you go easy say it's just a yard mower a 10w-30 is fine, if your hard on it 10w-40 like mobil 4t or Valvoline vr1 and if you bush wack with it 20w-50 like mobil1 v-twin.
For the snow blower definitely want a synthetic 5w-30 , just so you can getter started.

 

[Tyro_2004_2004]

The usual, an sj or sh rated multi weight "lawn mower" or "power equipment" oil.
Depending how hard your beat your mower. If you go easy say it's just a yard mower a 10w-30 is fine, if your hard on it 10w-40 like mobil 4t or Valvoline vr1 and if you bush wack with it 20w-50 like mobil1 v-twin.
For the snow blower definitely want a synthetic 5w-30 , just so you can getter started.

Beautiful! Thank you sir! I need to do an oil change in the snowblower anyways.

 

[oil pan 4]

Beautiful! Thank you sir! I need to do an oil change in the snowblower anyways.

Yeah I tried to start a 6.5hp generator with 15w-40 when it was about 10f. It was joke a generator that I could easily start with one pull in the summer, I could barely turn over on that +10f morning.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Yeah I tried to start a 6.5hp generator with 15w-40 when it was about 10f. It was joke a generator that I could easily start with one pull in the summer, I could barely turn over on that +10f morning.

Yesterday I started my JD D140 lawn tractor at 28 degrees F with RT6 15w-40 in the sump. It turned over very slowly, but fired up on the third try. Our overnight tempertature was 16 F, so I will venture a guess that the oil was actually cooler than 28 F. In any event, the machine started and ran at a temperature where I would never expect to use it. 15w-40 Rotella T6 will remain as my go to OPE oil for machines that run at or above freezing. That is everything except the snow blower. I may go off the reservation next spring and start putting the same oil in the Honda powered machines that currently run on 10w-30 M1 HM.

I have two machines that take some muscle to start. One is a Billy Goat leaf vacuum with a Honda GSV190. The other is a Predator chipper / shreader with the Predator 212 cc engine. In both cases it is the heavy rotating parts that make them hard to pull start. If any of you have gone to thicker oils on machines such as these I would sure like to hear about it.

 

[oil pan 4]

Yesterday I started my JD D140 lawn tractor at 28 degrees F with RT6 15w-40 in the sump. It turned over very slowly, but fired up on the third try. Our overnight tempertature was 16 F, so I will venture a guess that the oil was actually cooler than 28 F. In any event, the machine started and ran at a temperature where I would never expect to use it. 15w-40 Rotella T6 will remain as my go to OPE oil for machines that run at or above freezing. That is everything except the snow blower. I may go off the reservation next spring and start putting the same oil in the Honda powered machines that currently run on 10w-30 M1 HM.

I have two machines that take some muscle to start. One is a Billy Goat leaf vacuum with a Honda GSV190. The other is a Predator chipper / shreader with the Predator 212 cc engine. In both cases it is the heavy rotating parts that make them hard to pull start. If any of you have gone to thicker oils on machines such as these I would sure like to hear about it.

I tried to start the generator lubed with 15w-40 again this morning at +25F or less.
It turned over easier but couldn't start it. I probably could have if properly motivated, took the air filter off, used starter fluid, some rage, or drag to where the sun light would hit it then try pulling on it after it warmed up over 40F.
Yeah I'm leaving 20w-50 and 15w-40 in the summer only machines like pressure washer.
The snow blower gets synthetic 5w-30 unless I can find a good 0w-30 for air cooled engines.

Wood chippers usually don't get that hot unless 2 or 3 people are feeding it, 10w-30 should be fine. All I use is 10w-30 in my wood chipper and it's oil doesn't get hotter than 180F. It's got a predator 459cc.
A vacuum cleaner is like a leaf blower probably runs pretty hard and hot, use something that ends in 40, and a 5w if you want to use it in the winter.