If you have enough space under the oil pan to safely slide a halogen light under it, that might warm it enough to start it, drive it and change the oil out.
Starting car with 20w-50 when it's 25 degrees out
- Thread starter dx92beater
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Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Holy jeez. 20W-50 at 16 degrees? I've tried starting a lawnmower with Straight 30 at 20 degrees before. I was barely able to pull the starter cord. I cannot imagine that 20W-50 would flow AT ALL at these temperatures.
Remember the 50 means nothing, it's a 20 weight when cold. a 20 weight should be fine at 25F
Acording to Petro Canada you can use a 20 weight down to -4F. (They know a thing or two about cold weather and oil) You may have some other issue with the car...
From Petro Canada web site:
GUIDE TO SAE GRADES OF ENGINE OIL
Ambient Temperature Range SAE Grade
SAE Multi-Grades
°C °F
–40°C to +40°C –40°F to +104°F 0W-30
–35°C to +40°C –31°F to +104°F 5w30
–30°C to excess of +40°C –22°F to excess of +104°F 10w30, 10W-40
–25°C to excess of +40°C –13°F to excess of +104°F 15w40
–20°C to excess of +40°C –4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50
Holy jeez. 20W-50 at 16 degrees? I've tried starting a lawnmower with Straight 30 at 20 degrees before. I was barely able to pull the starter cord. I cannot imagine that 20W-50 would flow AT ALL at these temperatures.
Remember the 50 means nothing, it's a 20 weight when cold. a 20 weight should be fine at 25F
Acording to Petro Canada you can use a 20 weight down to -4F. (They know a thing or two about cold weather and oil) You may have some other issue with the car...
From Petro Canada web site:
GUIDE TO SAE GRADES OF ENGINE OIL
Ambient Temperature Range SAE Grade
SAE Multi-Grades
°C °F
–40°C to +40°C –40°F to +104°F 0W-30
–35°C to +40°C –31°F to +104°F 5w30
–30°C to excess of +40°C –22°F to excess of +104°F 10w30, 10W-40
–25°C to excess of +40°C –13°F to excess of +104°F 15w40
–20°C to excess of +40°C –4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50
Wow, great responses and fast! I love this place. Anyways, I will repeat that the car does turn over, but it sure sounded like sandpaper to me!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A cold night is usually a clear one.
The clear day that follows will be sunny.
Let the car bask in the sun for five or six hours.
It should absorb enough radiant heat to be warmer than the air temperature.
You should then be able to start the car, and you can then drive it a bit to get the thick stuff flowing freely.
You can then drain it out and replace it with the M1.
Alternatively, if you can do without the car for a few days, wait until next week, when I can pretty well guarantee it will be warmer.
Around here, really cold (for the area) temps rarely last more than a week, and are usually followed by a few days delightfully above freezing.
and... more time for
Seriously, I've done that. Keep an eye on the oil pressure and keep the revs down as best you can. Difficult to do with fuel injection computer managed engines. They'll make a lot of racket and you might hear the pressure relief valve in the oiling system squealing as it tries to reduce the pressure.
And, may I ask... why are you running a 20W50 in your part of the world? Even a 10Wx would have trouble getting going in that cold.
Cheers!
A cold night is usually a clear one.
The clear day that follows will be sunny.
Let the car bask in the sun for five or six hours.
It should absorb enough radiant heat to be warmer than the air temperature.
You should then be able to start the car, and you can then drive it a bit to get the thick stuff flowing freely.
You can then drain it out and replace it with the M1.
Alternatively, if you can do without the car for a few days, wait until next week, when I can pretty well guarantee it will be warmer.
Around here, really cold (for the area) temps rarely last more than a week, and are usually followed by a few days delightfully above freezing.
and... more time for
And, may I ask... why are you running a 20W50 in your part of the world? Even a 10Wx would have trouble getting going in that cold.
Cheers!
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A cold night is usually a clear one.
The clear day that follows will be sunny.
Let the car bask in the sun for five or six hours.
It should absorb enough radiant heat to be warmer than the air temperature.
You should then be able to start the car, and you can then drive it a bit to get the thick stuff flowing freely.
You can then drain it out and replace it with the M1.
Alternatively, if you can do without the car for a few days, wait until next week, when I can pretty well guarantee it will be warmer.
Around here, really cold (for the area) temps rarely last more than a week, and are usually followed by a few days delightfully above freezing.
and... more time for
Seriously, I've done that. Keep an eye on the oil pressure and keep the revs down as best you can. Difficult to do with fuel injection computer managed engines. They'll make a lot of racket and you might hear the pressure relief valve in the oiling system squealing as it tries to reduce the pressure.
And, may I ask... why are you running a 20W50 in your part of the world? Even a 10Wx would have trouble getting going in that cold.
Cheers!
I'll take some time. Please do a search by username to see why I am running 20w50. I am in Central Virginia it does get hot here you know! Anyways that is not why I am running 20w-50 in then winter.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A cold night is usually a clear one.
The clear day that follows will be sunny.
Let the car bask in the sun for five or six hours.
It should absorb enough radiant heat to be warmer than the air temperature.
You should then be able to start the car, and you can then drive it a bit to get the thick stuff flowing freely.
You can then drain it out and replace it with the M1.
Alternatively, if you can do without the car for a few days, wait until next week, when I can pretty well guarantee it will be warmer.
Around here, really cold (for the area) temps rarely last more than a week, and are usually followed by a few days delightfully above freezing.
and... more time for
And, may I ask... why are you running a 20W50 in your part of the world? Even a 10Wx would have trouble getting going in that cold.
Cheers!
I'll take some time. Please do a search by username to see why I am running 20w50. I am in Central Virginia it does get hot here you know! Anyways that is not why I am running 20w-50 in then winter.
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To me, it sounds more like a battery problem than an oil problem. You need some cold cranking amps when it's cold. And, 25F is not that cold. I ran 20W50 years down to the teens. And for those that haven't seen 20W50, look to the left or right on the shelf at the store. 20W50 is still very commonly carried in parts stores.
Originally Posted By: dx92beater
Wow, great responses and fast! I love this place. Anyways, I will repeat that the car does turn over, but it sure sounded like sandpaper to me!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
Beater,
I take it you are in NOVA?? Fairfax Station reports 14F, winds 7 G34, wind chill 10. Look... it's no time to screw around draining oil, etc., in 14F with a wind chill. Take the easy way... maybe set up your heater so it blows under the hood. It might help, but probably won't with the winds. Go get some coffee and let mother nature do her work.
Yes... it will sound like [censored] but if you can get it lit it will warm up faster. Also, if you have a battery charger... I'd rig it up to warm up the battery. You don't want to suck the life out of the battery getting it started.
(FWIW... the Luftwaffe's aircraft wouldn't start in the miserable winters on the Eastern Front. A couple of captured Russians showed how the Soviet Air Force kept their planes in the air. They too a pan and filled it with a small amount of diesel and placed it under the engine and set it off. Wuffff and a couple minutes later you could crank those big V12s over. Wermacht learned the same trick and used it with their armor.... Not safe for home use, really.)
Wow, great responses and fast! I love this place. Anyways, I will repeat that the car does turn over, but it sure sounded like sandpaper to me!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
Beater,
I take it you are in NOVA?? Fairfax Station reports 14F, winds 7 G34, wind chill 10. Look... it's no time to screw around draining oil, etc., in 14F with a wind chill. Take the easy way... maybe set up your heater so it blows under the hood. It might help, but probably won't with the winds. Go get some coffee and let mother nature do her work.
Yes... it will sound like [censored] but if you can get it lit it will warm up faster. Also, if you have a battery charger... I'd rig it up to warm up the battery. You don't want to suck the life out of the battery getting it started.
(FWIW... the Luftwaffe's aircraft wouldn't start in the miserable winters on the Eastern Front. A couple of captured Russians showed how the Soviet Air Force kept their planes in the air. They too a pan and filled it with a small amount of diesel and placed it under the engine and set it off. Wuffff and a couple minutes later you could crank those big V12s over. Wermacht learned the same trick and used it with their armor.... Not safe for home use, really.)
Originally Posted By: Silber Igel
Originally Posted By: dx92beater
Wow, great responses and fast! I love this place. Anyways, I will repeat that the car does turn over, but it sure sounded like sandpaper to me!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
Beater,
I take it you are in NOVA?? Fairfax Station reports 14F, winds 7 G34, wind chill 10. Look... it's no time to screw around draining oil, etc., in 14F with a wind chill. Take the easy way... maybe set up your heater so it blows under the hood. It might help, but probably won't with the winds. Go get some coffee and let mother nature do her work.
Yes... it will sound like [censored] but if you can get it lit it will warm up faster. Also, if you have a battery charger... I'd rig it up to warm up the battery. You don't want to suck the life out of the battery getting it started.
(FWIW... the Luftwaffe's aircraft wouldn't start in the miserable winters on the Eastern Front. A couple of captured Russians showed how the Soviet Air Force kept their planes in the air. They too a pan and filled it with a small amount of diesel and placed it under the engine and set it off. Wuffff and a couple minutes later you could crank those big V12s over. Wermacht learned the same trick and used it with their armor.... Not safe for home use, really.)
I am in Spotsylvania, Virginia...(Fredericksburg Area)...usually a little bit colder than than NOVA even though it is further South..although it is considered to be NOVA sometimes (if not then still considered part of the DC area).
I have an outdoor Oregon Scientific temperature sensor out there. It says 27 degrees out.
Underground Weather says 20 degrees for Fairfax and 23 degrees for my area.
Are you saying to start it even if it sounds like [censored]?
Originally Posted By: dx92beater
Wow, great responses and fast! I love this place. Anyways, I will repeat that the car does turn over, but it sure sounded like sandpaper to me!
It is sitting in a carport. Fdcg27 was right about the cold night and the clear sunny day to follow. It is about 25 out right now at ~09:30 am, but it sure is sunny. The high is predicted to be about 29 degrees. I have a portable space heater and I will give it a go. I may do a fill and drain, I may just try to get it a little bit warmer.
Again, the car starts but it sounds like sandpaper. I have learned to trust my gut over time and it sure hasn't lied to me.
Thanks all!
Beater,
I take it you are in NOVA?? Fairfax Station reports 14F, winds 7 G34, wind chill 10. Look... it's no time to screw around draining oil, etc., in 14F with a wind chill. Take the easy way... maybe set up your heater so it blows under the hood. It might help, but probably won't with the winds. Go get some coffee and let mother nature do her work.
Yes... it will sound like [censored] but if you can get it lit it will warm up faster. Also, if you have a battery charger... I'd rig it up to warm up the battery. You don't want to suck the life out of the battery getting it started.
(FWIW... the Luftwaffe's aircraft wouldn't start in the miserable winters on the Eastern Front. A couple of captured Russians showed how the Soviet Air Force kept their planes in the air. They too a pan and filled it with a small amount of diesel and placed it under the engine and set it off. Wuffff and a couple minutes later you could crank those big V12s over. Wermacht learned the same trick and used it with their armor.... Not safe for home use, really.)
I am in Spotsylvania, Virginia...(Fredericksburg Area)...usually a little bit colder than than NOVA even though it is further South..although it is considered to be NOVA sometimes (if not then still considered part of the DC area).
I have an outdoor Oregon Scientific temperature sensor out there. It says 27 degrees out.
Underground Weather says 20 degrees for Fairfax and 23 degrees for my area.
Are you saying to start it even if it sounds like [censored]?
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Originally Posted By: GMorg
To me, it sounds more like a battery problem than an oil problem. You need some cold cranking amps when it's cold. And, 25F is not that cold. I ran 20W50 years down to the teens. And for those that haven't seen 20W50, look to the left or right on the shelf at the store. 20W50 is still very commonly carried in parts stores.
The car starts though, it just sounds like [censored] when it is running. I don't think a battery problem would cause that, would it?
To me, it sounds more like a battery problem than an oil problem. You need some cold cranking amps when it's cold. And, 25F is not that cold. I ran 20W50 years down to the teens. And for those that haven't seen 20W50, look to the left or right on the shelf at the store. 20W50 is still very commonly carried in parts stores.
The car starts though, it just sounds like [censored] when it is running. I don't think a battery problem would cause that, would it?
Originally Posted By: dx92beater
Originally Posted By: GMorg
To me, it sounds more like a battery problem than an oil problem. You need some cold cranking amps when it's cold. And, 25F is not that cold. I ran 20W50 years down to the teens. And for those that haven't seen 20W50, look to the left or right on the shelf at the store. 20W50 is still very commonly carried in parts stores.
The car starts though, it just sounds like [censored] when it is running. I don't think a battery problem would cause that, would it?
The battery wouldn't make the sound. Although if the battery's old and down on charge, it will grind a lot more in these conditions.
According to "Bluestream's" chart ( –20°C to excess of +40°C –4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50 ) your oil should be flowing at 25F ... not well perhaps but it should be pumping. If you have a pressure gauge you should see some pressure... probably a lot!!! If you have an idiot light, it should go out.
Another trick would be to crank it up and run it for a couple minutes and then shut it off for a few minutes. Continue till it the temp gauge begins to lift off the peg .. then let her run till full warm. This will start warming the coolant and circulating and warming the oil.
Keep an eye on the oil filter.... you don't want to over pressure that tin can either. Engines & filters have a pressure relief/bypass built in to protect them. (In fact, with this cold and heavy oil, its probably bypassing the filter anyway.)
Originally Posted By: GMorg
To me, it sounds more like a battery problem than an oil problem. You need some cold cranking amps when it's cold. And, 25F is not that cold. I ran 20W50 years down to the teens. And for those that haven't seen 20W50, look to the left or right on the shelf at the store. 20W50 is still very commonly carried in parts stores.
The car starts though, it just sounds like [censored] when it is running. I don't think a battery problem would cause that, would it?
The battery wouldn't make the sound. Although if the battery's old and down on charge, it will grind a lot more in these conditions.
According to "Bluestream's" chart ( –20°C to excess of +40°C –4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50 ) your oil should be flowing at 25F ... not well perhaps but it should be pumping. If you have a pressure gauge you should see some pressure... probably a lot!!! If you have an idiot light, it should go out.
Another trick would be to crank it up and run it for a couple minutes and then shut it off for a few minutes. Continue till it the temp gauge begins to lift off the peg .. then let her run till full warm. This will start warming the coolant and circulating and warming the oil.
Keep an eye on the oil filter.... you don't want to over pressure that tin can either. Engines & filters have a pressure relief/bypass built in to protect them. (In fact, with this cold and heavy oil, its probably bypassing the filter anyway.)
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25F is just about summer for many of us around here. If worried wait till mid day with it sitting in the sun and it will be fine. Start drive drain fill done. I dont think about my oil till it's about -20F outside overnight if it's going to turn or not.
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- Sep 28, 2002
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- 39,798
For all we know the starter drive is hanging up and this has nothing to do with the lubrication aspects of the engine.
For the time spent/fretted over this ..I would drain it COLD (heck, how long would it have taken to get most of it out?) and refill with something thinner JUST to determine if I was on track or not. My 3.0 Mitsubishi didn't care if it had 5w-20 or 20w-50/15w-40 in sub freezing temps ..at least in the form of noise complaints. It would surely feel "tighter" ..so to speak ..for a bit.
This is not worth the $10-12 it would take to figure it out ..leaving the vehicle in a ZERO service providing status. People spend $100 in towing to fix this sorta thing. Doing a shorter OCI due to any side effects of leaving any non-flowing goo in the sump is chump change.
Or am I really missing something here? Is the drain plug "cold welded" to the pan?
For the time spent/fretted over this ..I would drain it COLD (heck, how long would it have taken to get most of it out?) and refill with something thinner JUST to determine if I was on track or not. My 3.0 Mitsubishi didn't care if it had 5w-20 or 20w-50/15w-40 in sub freezing temps ..at least in the form of noise complaints. It would surely feel "tighter" ..so to speak ..for a bit.
This is not worth the $10-12 it would take to figure it out ..leaving the vehicle in a ZERO service providing status. People spend $100 in towing to fix this sorta thing. Doing a shorter OCI due to any side effects of leaving any non-flowing goo in the sump is chump change.
Or am I really missing something here? Is the drain plug "cold welded" to the pan?
I started my car the other day in a doomed attempt to change the oil prior to storage (long story). It was 26 degrees Farenheit and the 20w50 started and ran just fine.
True that the reason i picked that day was that the forecast for the next week was more like 5 degrees Farenheit, but still
True that the reason i picked that day was that the forecast for the next week was more like 5 degrees Farenheit, but still
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
For all we know the starter drive is hanging up and this has nothing to do with the lubrication aspects of the engine.
For the time spent/fretted over this ..I would drain it COLD (heck, how long would it have taken to get most of it out?) and refill with something thinner JUST to determine if I was on track or not. My 3.0 Mitsubishi didn't care if it had 5w-20 or 20w-50/15w-40 in sub freezing temps ..at least in the form of noise complaints. It would surely feel "tighter" ..so to speak ..for a bit.
This is not worth the $10-12 it would take to figure it out ..leaving the vehicle in a ZERO service providing status. People spend $100 in towing to fix this sorta thing. Doing a shorter OCI due to any side effects of leaving any non-flowing goo in the sump is chump change.
Or am I really missing something here? Is the drain plug "cold welded" to the pan?
Gary,
I think Beater was looking for some ideas and re-assurance. He didn't say it was 'mission critical' to get it running. He doesn't want to damage his motor. I can understand that. Who would want to damage their engine?? And when you've never experienced this kind of a problem before, you have concerns.
Obviously, there's a variety of ways offered to solve the problem.... including waiting till June or July. The likely hood of any damage is pretty slim, I'd venture. I'd council patience and a couple cups of coffee.
Cheers!
For all we know the starter drive is hanging up and this has nothing to do with the lubrication aspects of the engine.
For the time spent/fretted over this ..I would drain it COLD (heck, how long would it have taken to get most of it out?) and refill with something thinner JUST to determine if I was on track or not. My 3.0 Mitsubishi didn't care if it had 5w-20 or 20w-50/15w-40 in sub freezing temps ..at least in the form of noise complaints. It would surely feel "tighter" ..so to speak ..for a bit.
This is not worth the $10-12 it would take to figure it out ..leaving the vehicle in a ZERO service providing status. People spend $100 in towing to fix this sorta thing. Doing a shorter OCI due to any side effects of leaving any non-flowing goo in the sump is chump change.
Or am I really missing something here? Is the drain plug "cold welded" to the pan?
Gary,
I think Beater was looking for some ideas and re-assurance. He didn't say it was 'mission critical' to get it running. He doesn't want to damage his motor. I can understand that. Who would want to damage their engine?? And when you've never experienced this kind of a problem before, you have concerns.
Obviously, there's a variety of ways offered to solve the problem.... including waiting till June or July. The likely hood of any damage is pretty slim, I'd venture. I'd council patience and a couple cups of coffee.
Cheers!
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- Messages
- 29,558
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
My BMW owners manual says it can use 20W50 down to 16F. You should be fine
^^Agree. Depending on what your car`s fsm says. Mine says 20W50 can be used down to 14F. Or do as others said,just drain out out cold,refill with the oil of your choice,and all will be good :^) Fwiw,my car starts just as fast in freezing temps whether I`ve got dino 20W50 or synth 5W30 in her.
My BMW owners manual says it can use 20W50 down to 16F. You should be fine
^^Agree. Depending on what your car`s fsm says. Mine says 20W50 can be used down to 14F. Or do as others said,just drain out out cold,refill with the oil of your choice,and all will be good :^) Fwiw,my car starts just as fast in freezing temps whether I`ve got dino 20W50 or synth 5W30 in her.
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Originally Posted By: cven
–4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50
WOW.. that seems so crazy to me. I know Pentro Canada make some great oils but that sounds like kooky talk! LOL...
What seems odd is that all grades listed are good to 104F. That seems wrong.
Anyway, I got the info here on page 38
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/pdf/english.pdf
–4°F to excess of +104°F 20W-50
WOW.. that seems so crazy to me. I know Pentro Canada make some great oils but that sounds like kooky talk! LOL...
What seems odd is that all grades listed are good to 104F. That seems wrong.
Anyway, I got the info here on page 38
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/pdf/english.pdf
I started it just fine a few minutes ago. It didn't sound that great for about 10 seconds but after that it was just fine.
I put the 15w-50 in there and it sounds much happier.
Thanks all!
I put the 15w-50 in there and it sounds much happier.
Thanks all!
I started my 96 sunfire yesterday after it sat for 9 days, it was 20 degrees at the time. It fired right up with 1 quart of 15w40 top off in there. When it's was that cold, there were noises I could hear that must have been due to the bitter cold.
Originally Posted By: dx92beater
I started it just fine a few minutes ago. It didn't sound that great for about 10 seconds but after that it was just fine.
I put the 15w-50 in there and it sounds much happier.
Thanks all!
There you go!!!! BTW.... what car/truck is this?
I started it just fine a few minutes ago. It didn't sound that great for about 10 seconds but after that it was just fine.
I put the 15w-50 in there and it sounds much happier.
Thanks all!
There you go!!!! BTW.... what car/truck is this?
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