Stainless mesh filters vs paper filters

[Flyingdutchman]

Recently i read on a forum where they discussed oil filters for honda CRF 450 enduro/motorcross bikes.

Some guys advised a reusable stainless oilfilters, mainly because it was reusable and cheaper on the long run.
I have and will always use oem honda paper filters, they are not so expensive and i think they can filter smaller particles, i aslo like the idea that they trap the dirt and are then swapped out.

Some people tried the stainless filter, you have to clean them by hand and they said almost no crap came out it so i wonder it also didnt trap any particles.

One guy on the forum worked as an aviation mechanic and told that on jet engines they only use the stainless mesh filters for oil and fuel filtration, mostly because they cant collapse or detoriate under high heat/pressure.

I do like the idea of the stainless filters for fuel or maybe hydraulic oil filtration, especialy applications with high flow.

Do any of you guys know any other benefits or drawbacks and your opinion or experience with them?

I personnally work on wind turbines, for the hydraulic system and for the gearboxes they only use replaceable paper filters.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Do any of you guys know any other benefits or drawbacks and your opinion or experience with them?

Tons of it with both not just with machine filtration but process filtration too.

First we need to null and remove all the "noise" because it confuses and convolutes the comparison. The noise specifically is things such as flow, pressure, vacuum, temp and even the volume of contamination to be removed. The reason they have to be removed is because any filter media can be designed (to the limits of the mechanical/chemical properties of the selected media) to accommodate all of them.

The basic differences is the mesh ( screen or sieve) is a hard mechanical inflexible size- it simply doesn't move. it almost always has 1 thickness dimension. This is superior particle filtering/retention/capturing but at the expense of needing mechanical/chemical cleaning and will reduce flow quicker as surface area is reduces unless pressure radically increases.

Media is a variety of weaves, warps, wefts, various satin configurations of various thicknesses. it creates labyrinths, has 'tentacles" and all types of shapes and sizes and it functions more like a maze that traps/retains particles by velocity reduction, inertia reduction and others.

This media is more prone to wear ( the openings wear larger over time), material changes (gets hard and loses flex/cracks) and since it breathes it lets some contamination get through.

Both work well within their design and material constraints. They are often used in conjunction and there are decisions and trade offs to consider in the selection process.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Tons of it with both not just with machine filtration but process filtration too.

First we need to null and remove all the "noise" because it confuses and convolutes the comparison. The noise specifically is things such as flow, pressure, vacuum, temp and even the volume of contamination to be removed. The reason they have to be removed is because any filter media can be designed (to the limits of the mechanical/chemical properties of the selected media) to accommodate all of them.

The basic differences is the mesh ( screen or sieve) is a hard mechanical inflexible size- it simply doesn't move. it almost always has 1 thickness dimension. This is superior particle filtering/retention/capturing but at the expense of needing mechanical/chemical cleaning and will reduce flow quicker as surface area is reduces unless pressure radically increases.

Media is a variety of weaves, warps, wefts, various satin configurations of various thicknesses. it creates labyrinths, has 'tentacles" and all types of shapes and sizes and it functions more like a maze that traps/retains particles by velocity reduction, inertia reduction and others.

This media is more prone to wear ( the openings wear larger over time), material changes (gets hard and loses flex/cracks) and since it breathes it lets some contamination get through.

Both work well within their design and material constraints. They are often used in conjunction and there are decisions and trade offs to consider in the selection process.

That is some interesting information. Thank you.

So to properly clean the stainless filters you have to mechanicly clean them, just rinsing them is not enough.
I guess that for most applications this is not convienent and more costly hence why you dont see them as much in automotive applications.

 

[4WD]

That is some interesting information. Thank you.

So to properly clean the stainless filters you have to mechanicly clean them, just rinsing them is not enough.
I guess that for most applications this is not convienent and more costly hence why you dont see them as much in automotive applications.

I pulled off the road recently looking at some new wind gens and wondered: do they have a stainless standpipe and pump to change gear oil … or how is that done ?

 

[vivaUkraine]

I have and will always use oem honda paper filters

What??? You are not using Wix or Fram??? So many people on BITOG think you're skimping on the oil filtration quality

 

[zrxkawboy]

The OEM oil filter on my Yamaha TTR230 is a mesh-type...I didn't expect that.

 

[RooflessVW]

That is some interesting information. Thank you.

So to properly clean the stainless filters you have to mechanicly clean them, just rinsing them is not enough.
I guess that for most applications this is not convienent and more costly hence why you dont see them as much in automotive applications.

My experience with stainless mesh filters is on aircraft, and in all instances but one they get replaced, not cleaned.

The manual for the Mi-17 states that the filters should be cleaned either ultrasonically or by rinsing with бензин - gasoline.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I pulled off the road recently looking at some new wind gens and wondered: do they have a stainless standpipe and pump to change gear oil … or how is that done ?

The oil is monitered with oil analysis to see how the oil is holding up and what the levels of additives are, at least on the park where i work there is not a predescribed interval.
They sometimes choose to add certain additives in its pure form to get the levels to where they are supposed to be.

I guess that shearing is the hardest on windturbine gearbox oils. The gearbox speeds up 1:150 rpm ratio, a lot of which is done by planetary gears.
The turbines i work one have an mechanical oil pump which pumps if the turbine is running, however if there is no wind an electrical pump takes over.
Actually standstill is the hardest on these gearboxes, especcialy for the bearings which get indents.

There is a large inline filter which is in the cooling circuit and there is an offline filter which basicly constantly pumps oil out of the ''sump'' of the gearbox and through celluose filters and then back in to the sump.

The gearboxes hold between 900 and 1500 liters.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

My experience with stainless mesh filters is on aircraft, and in all instances but one they get replaced, not cleaned.

The manual for the Mi-17 states that the filters should be cleaned either ultrasonically or by rinsing with бензин - gasoline.

Okay ultrasonic cleaning machines arent that expensive any more so that is viable option.
I came across this one on aliexpres
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1000005785545.html

Not sure about how much R&D went in to the filter and would certainly not recommend it for an aircraft but maybe for leisure boats, large equipment, generators, older cars etc... it doesnt look that bad for about 20 euros/dollars. Branded race filters with this design cost about 120+

 

[kschachn]

FWIW it's been discussed many times on here, these are a few of the threads:

HUBB reusable stainless steel filter?

Quote HUBB's patented design provides your vehicles with the following advantages over standard paper filters: Are built with a surgical stainless steel weave to capture contaminants as small as 5 microns Include 2 pressure differential valves for increased oil flow and engine safety Use...

bobistheoilguy.com

K&P stainless steel oil filters.

Just got this in a email from Turner. From their price Im assuming theyre lifetime filters? Just remove and clean them out real good with brake clean or other cleaner...

bobistheoilguy.com

Never change your oil filter again?

https://www.fastcodesign.com/3045144/the-oil-filter-gets-a-tune-up Hmmmm

bobistheoilguy.com

There are more if you avail yourself of the search function.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

So to properly clean the stainless filters you have to mechanicly clean them, just rinsing them is not enough.

That's not entirely correct but it comes up a lot with clients so I'll tell you what I show them.

The sieve filter ( basically a metal mesh commonly made of SS but can be any number of metals or polymers) has "X" overall surface area that again is reasonably inflexible ( their main selling point is absolute filtration)

So as the size goes down, the fluid properties start to make a significant difference. ( changes in viscosity, temperature, tackifiers, or just plain thickening or gumming for whatever reason)- those degrade the sieve performance more than any particulate capture ever will. ( whereas the media filter will expand or yield to the forces aforementioned)

Yes particles can and do get "embedded" ( jammed or try to break through) in the mesh just like a paper cup stuck in a chain link fence. It takes a lot of those to affect OA filter performance. ( and yes they require mechanical cleaning without damaging the screen)

The chemical contamination ( pick any form from sludge, baked/coked matter, goo, gum, resin, glue, salt water taffy or any other thick stuff) is a much worse problem and can often be removed chemically or by back flushing ( but sometimes has to be scrubbed off too).

So it depends on the specific situation as to what method is correct/best ( and the decision to even attempt cleaning as opposed to replacement)

 

[ragtoplvr]

So, how about the environmental impact from all the cleaning solutions compared to disposal of spent media.

I simply do not see them as a big improvement.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

So, how about the environmental impact from all the cleaning solutions compared to disposal of spent media.

Net Zero- maybe a microscopic indeterminate benefit at best

I simply do not see them as a big improvement.

Improvement ( or requirement in some cases) is mainly determined by the cleanliness requirement of the machine or process

 

[wpod]

A mesh filter is like a window screen.

 

[Jetronic]

A mesh filter is like a window screen.

no mosquitos in the oil then!